So my Christmas present arrived yesterday. I know its not Christmas yet, BUT to make sure it made the journey safely, I opened it. The seller wrapped it in pink shrink wrap with no pipe wrap, nor did he (she) brace the dropouts. Ok, I can look past this, no damage to the dropouts.... Oh, there's the dent he sent a picture of (above the shifters), I can live with that. What the F***?!? What are these wrinkles?!?!? So, I am now the proud owner of a semi complete (the f/d is a HURET) Campagnolo NR group and a bent frame I took pictures and stopped by Spectrum (Tom Kellog) and showed Tom the pics, he said it's toast. So what I want to know is what do I do, 1)contact the seller and try to get my money back, 2) get the DT replaced by Spectrum ($150+paint) and that'll kill the chrome headlugs, 3) keep the NR bits and just use the frame as a painful reminder to continue my typical cash in hand deals. The NR parts are in decent shape w/ a little rash on the non drive crank are and the bearings NEED to be lubed.





What would you guys do?

Ebay?

Significantly not as described.

guh, that sucks. I love that color too. I think I saw that on ebay.
if it was not described as such and the seller won't rectify I'd go through Ebay.

I would negotiate with the seller in good faith. I've found most people are inherently honest and if you deal with them honestly, you can reach a settlement. If that doesn't work, I'd probably write it off.

OK, I think I've made my decision. Holiday, good timing

Here is the link. As I look through the pictures, I can see a slight blem, but perhaps it's because I know its there. Either way, crap.
https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Pipe insulation is fine for protecting the frame from scratches, but it does nothing to keep tubes from bending. The most important aspect of packing a frame is to insure that it does not move within the box and that there is some sort of padding around all six interior sides.

That's a bummer, Rob, but you're the buyer this time. If the seller doesn't make it right, eBay will at the seller's expense. They'll likely tell you file a claim with FedEx/UPS first.

Oh, man, that sucks. My condolences.

This is damage caused by crashing the bike into a car, right? Or was it damaged in transit?

I'm pretty sure that none of this damage happened during shipping, I just expected a little better pack job by a "bike shop" as the seller told me.

Yup, she's bent all right. And too bad, because his pictures pretty much show that there if frame damage - if you know what to look for.

He called the item "used", but it does not qualify with Ebay's definition of used which includes the items ability to function as intended, or something to that effect. Check it out. Also, in the pictures the big red flag waver, to me, is the front wheel and how off set it is between the fork blades. Not only is the frame set bent, but so too is the fork.

Unless you know what you are doing, you might want to go after the seller for a full refund, or you keep what you got with a partial refund. That failing, go through the Ebay dispute process. I think you have pretty good grounds to argue with here.

Sorry to hear about this sort of thing. Sometimes, sellers honestly don't realize they are selling a damaged bicycle. Your seller might be happy to have the problem brought to him so that he can sort it out with you. Does he have high positive feedback? That would be a good sign.

If the item was damaged in shipping, you should call the carrier to schedule an inspection. Keep all the packing materials, and (for future reference) take pictures while unpacking. If they decide it's their fault, they'll cover you up to the documentable replacement value or the insured value, whichever is less. If they decide it's not their fault—that is, it was damaged in shipping because of bad packing—you're SOL.

If the item was not damaged in shipping but shipped already in a damaged state (which is what it sounds like), I would follow randyjawa's suggestion.

Bike was crashed, rather than poorly packed (which it was as well). I would ask for a full refund, including shipping both ways.

An alternate position would be to part it out on your end, for a partial refund (if the seller doesn't want to pay to get his crashed bike back).

I have only bought three bikes shipped on ebay, the rest I have picked up (drove 225 miles one way to pick one of them up). In the three I had shipped, two were damaged, one severely. In that case, seller just put the bike LOOSE (no packing whatsoever), into a bike box, then shipped it 2600 miles to me. The handlebars did a number on the frame. The negotiated settlement was a part out on my end.

Split the cost of the new tube with the seller. Pay for the paint...

The (relatively) good news is that, at worst, you're out $370. It could have been a very expensive Merckx or something similar. As wrk101 says, you can get a big percentage of that back by parting it out - if it comes to that.

If this is a "grail" bike, negotiate a return/refund, and keep looking. Or, get what you can from the seller, spring for a repair and repaint, ride your dream bike that is now in "like new" condition, and move on.

I just can't bring myself to buy a bike on eBay - I know others have had good success, but my luck isn't that hot. Hell - I don't even like shipping bikes to others. I've only done it 3 times in my life, and all 3 times I was restless and edgy until they arrived safe and sound.

if you read the Q&A section, the seller says "FRAME HAS NO DENTS BENDS CRACKS ECT..PAINT JUST HAS NORMAL SCRATCHES FOR ITS AGE BUT OVERALL GOOD." So either he is blind or purposely mis-represented the frame. Notice also there is no photo in which you could have noticed the problem.

Seller also has mediocre feedback, given the amount of stuff they sell. Two neutrals and two negatives in the last 150 transactions. And some of the positives are for defective product where the seller gave a refund.

Here's the one negative feedback that catches my eye: "recieved frame scrached bent dropout from poor package job! crank loose floppin" I always look for positive feedback on prior bike shipments, I don't see any from this seller (OK, I saw just one for a modern MTB). I doubt the seller knew bike was crashed, but that does not give them a free pass on selling a wrecked bike. In the world of ebay, it is the responsibility of the seller to disclose all defects, as the system favors the buyer in any dispute.

I work hard to keep a clean feedback record with ebay. Most/all active sellers do the same.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this....

I see dents and dings but I don't see any *bent* tubes or a *bent* fork. Am i just not seeing something?

^ Newb.

I agree with the ask for a refund! see if the folks at Spectrum will write you an estimate of repairs. maybe he will be happy to give a partial refund to cover the repair cost

Me being an idiot aside.... Tell me what you're seeing that I'm not.

+1 While I am one of the first to call out a bent fork, I really don't clearly see the damage in the ebay listing either. OK, on the full bike picture, the top tube looks a little tweaked. And if I stare at the picture of the front brake caliper, I almost can see that the DT is tweaked. But this is only after having the benefit of knowing the bike is damaged. Had I looked at these pictures without knowing there was an issue, I would not have noticed it.

The angles used in the pictures makes it hard for me to really see the damage. Are these odd angles deliberate? I don't know. But it makes me a little more suspect about the seller. I really much prefer a full side view taken perpendicular with the bike, where problems such as a bent fork are pretty obvious. I also much prefer quality full size pics imbedded into the ad, rather than the often crappy ebay smaller sized pics.

In the end, this deal will cost the seller money, whether it is in paying a claim, getting negative feedback, or whatever. So I guess I will give the seller the benefit of the doubt.

No, no. I was just being a smart ass. It's like "that's what she said". I can't help myself.

I see the dent/bend on the head tube side of the shifters and above the "ter" in "Intertational", but I'm also puzzled by Kellogg's diagnosis. From what I see it looks as though the Park head tube straightening tool could make it right again (as far as the ride goes).

For what Tom's diagnosis is worth, he seemed to be in a bit of a bad mood when I showed him the pictures (just hung up the phone with a seemingly annoying person) so maybe that biased his opinion? I don't mind dings and dents, I just worry incessantly about structural issues and that is where my brain is stuck. Is it going to fail when/if I hit an unseen pothole/crack/traintrack/squirrel/child/senior citizen in a jazzy/your choice of obstacle? I'm not a flyweight (6'0" 235) so that thought just keeps swirling in my mind.

What a shame sorry for the loss.

You can see in the 4th and 5th preview pictures it looks kinda weird. But i only pic up on it after seeing these.

were you the one to ask the seller a question about the bike having any bends or dents?



- james

You might consider sending some better photos to Kurt (cudak888). He has the Park tool I was referring to above.

No worries dude, I know yer just smartassing me....I just wanted to hear your opinion too

I helped facilitate this deal for Rob and we're planning to meet up sometime this week and try to put our heads together on this. To be honest if the frame is rideable and Rob doesn't want it I'd have at it