Decal Logo Knockoffs
01-29-11 | 09:47 PM
#26
Professional Decal Maker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 162
Likes: 1
Bikes: Giant MTB, Fuji beach bike
Nice in theory, but not really based in reality.
As others have stated, pixal artwork is worthless. It needs to be converted to vector artwork. Adobe Illustator is the industry standard. It costs about $600.
Then there is the time. To convert a logo from pixal to vector will take 2-6 hours for someone with a lot of experience with the program. This comes from first-hand experience as I recreated Cinelli, Frejus and Gloria logos. I have over 20 years experience using Illustrator. What's shop rate at your LBS? $50-$60 /hour? Granted a decal maker can reuse the artwork, but there is no guarantee you won't be his only customer.
Next is color. Color is an SOB. Is the color in the photograph correct? Is the monitor showing the correct color in the photograph? PMS (Pantone matching system) is the industry standard. Does Pantone have an exact match? Then comes the hard part. Even with a specified PMS color, every printer will print them different. Even 2 different printers that are the same model are likely to print different colors. Then there are usually a few colors a printer won't print well. The chroma is off in the red for example. Then there are metallics. You have to print out multiple times to get the color correct. And now you need a printer to do this all. That isn't a cheap printer. The inks aren't cheap.
So $50 to get 1 page of decals is pretty much an excellent deal. And I am fairly certain anyone charging you $50 is not getting rich.
As others have stated, pixal artwork is worthless. It needs to be converted to vector artwork. Adobe Illustator is the industry standard. It costs about $600.
Then there is the time. To convert a logo from pixal to vector will take 2-6 hours for someone with a lot of experience with the program. This comes from first-hand experience as I recreated Cinelli, Frejus and Gloria logos. I have over 20 years experience using Illustrator. What's shop rate at your LBS? $50-$60 /hour? Granted a decal maker can reuse the artwork, but there is no guarantee you won't be his only customer.
Next is color. Color is an SOB. Is the color in the photograph correct? Is the monitor showing the correct color in the photograph? PMS (Pantone matching system) is the industry standard. Does Pantone have an exact match? Then comes the hard part. Even with a specified PMS color, every printer will print them different. Even 2 different printers that are the same model are likely to print different colors. Then there are usually a few colors a printer won't print well. The chroma is off in the red for example. Then there are metallics. You have to print out multiple times to get the color correct. And now you need a printer to do this all. That isn't a cheap printer. The inks aren't cheap.
So $50 to get 1 page of decals is pretty much an excellent deal. And I am fairly certain anyone charging you $50 is not getting rich.
DITTO
01-30-11 | 02:31 AM
#27
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,567
Likes: 2,740
From: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma
I am sitting here with what might be the last set of mid seventies CCM Tour du Canada decals on the planet. I do not want to take the chance to use them. So, I scanned and now I am trying to make my own decals.
I have made decals before and with some success, however; I am always trying to improve the way I restore my bicycles. With that in mind, I would like to try the Vector art thing.
I did some checking and there are free Vector Software downloads available. Does anyone know if these are worth using?
I have made decals before and with some success, however; I am always trying to improve the way I restore my bicycles. With that in mind, I would like to try the Vector art thing.
I did some checking and there are free Vector Software downloads available. Does anyone know if these are worth using?
01-30-11 | 03:21 PM
#28
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 10
Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon
Just playing now printing out some graphics on the Papilio samples I got: clear and white waterslide; clear and white waterproof vinyl; silver metallic.
Looks like the clear is going to be fairly useless, unless going on a white bike. Silver is too dark and inks too transparent. White vinyl prints well and seems very thin, but it has a matte finish. Trying some gloss clear spray over. White waterslide looks nice, somewhat shiny. Supposed to wait 3 hours to let dry then coat with their fixative solution and let dry another 8 hours before using.
Certainly has possibilities if graphics are simple enough in shape to be cut out by hand.
randyjawa: I've only ever used Adobe Illustrator, don't know about any other vector programs... Oh, if your decals are right reading and visible, you could probably print from a good hirez scan from Photoshop.
Looks like the clear is going to be fairly useless, unless going on a white bike. Silver is too dark and inks too transparent. White vinyl prints well and seems very thin, but it has a matte finish. Trying some gloss clear spray over. White waterslide looks nice, somewhat shiny. Supposed to wait 3 hours to let dry then coat with their fixative solution and let dry another 8 hours before using.
Certainly has possibilities if graphics are simple enough in shape to be cut out by hand.
randyjawa: I've only ever used Adobe Illustrator, don't know about any other vector programs... Oh, if your decals are right reading and visible, you could probably print from a good hirez scan from Photoshop.
01-31-11 | 10:05 AM
#29
multimodal commuter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,810
Likes: 597
From: NJ, NYC, LI
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
The attached pdfs are the decal design for a Raleigh Twenty. I don't know who made these, perhaps forum member lilpixel.
01-31-11 | 03:27 PM
#30
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,626
Likes: 2,497
From: Bastrop Texas
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Questions on Copyrights - Well its pretty clear that Ford is not going to sue you for painting a Ford Logo on your Ford truck - Now if I sell a couple of hundred T-Shirts with that logo on it then I think he rightfully has a case and deserves his cut - What I am saying here is we have a group of individual bicycle enthusiasts that want to decorate their bikes with decal reproductions - I am not interested in trying to make a piece of equipment something thats its not...
My buddy down the street is hand drawing a 1940s Peugeot decal for a down tube and a guy over in Austin is going to put it on his 1940s Peugeot - I don't think even the French will have a problem with that...
And again - A knock off is a knock off - Sometimes they just stink (like the ones I have posted)
Some bikes are so special they deserve special decorations - Now if I can just find some Western Auto streamers and a Varooom......
My buddy down the street is hand drawing a 1940s Peugeot decal for a down tube and a guy over in Austin is going to put it on his 1940s Peugeot - I don't think even the French will have a problem with that...
And again - A knock off is a knock off - Sometimes they just stink (like the ones I have posted)
Some bikes are so special they deserve special decorations - Now if I can just find some Western Auto streamers and a Varooom......
02-01-11 | 01:54 PM
#32
Banned.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,199
Likes: 1,463
Despite the time element, I've got no problem with Velocals.
I did the work up front, design and create, converted to a format for commercial printing.
10 days later I had 'em.
I also use Cyclomondo if he has it in stock.
I don't know a think about that kind of graphics work, so I trust their judgement.
I did the work up front, design and create, converted to a format for commercial printing.
10 days later I had 'em.
I also use Cyclomondo if he has it in stock.
I don't know a think about that kind of graphics work, so I trust their judgement.
02-01-11 | 02:01 PM
#33
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,626
Likes: 2,497
From: Bastrop Texas
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Heres another GettoCal - Its sized to paste onto a bumper sticker template 10"x3" and then go on a downtube - This has been a very hard font to reproduce and makes you appreciate the professional work done at Velocals and others...
Much better scan on page three
Much better scan on page three
Last edited by zandoval; 06-10-11 at 01:44 PM.
02-01-11 | 02:59 PM
#35
Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Nice in theory, but not really based in reality.
As others have stated, pixal artwork is worthless. It needs to be converted to vector artwork. Adobe Illustator is the industry standard. It costs about $600.
Then there is the time. To convert a logo from pixal to vector will take 2-6 hours for someone with a lot of experience with the program. This comes from first-hand experience as I recreated Cinelli, Frejus and Gloria logos. I have over 20 years experience using Illustrator. What's shop rate at your LBS? $50-$60 /hour? Granted a decal maker can reuse the artwork, but there is no guarantee you won't be his only customer.
Next is color. Color is an SOB. Is the color in the photograph correct? Is the monitor showing the correct color in the photograph? PMS (Pantone matching system) is the industry standard. Does Pantone have an exact match? Then comes the hard part. Even with a specified PMS color, every printer will print them different. Even 2 different printers that are the same model are likely to print different colors. Then there are usually a few colors a printer won't print well. The chroma is off in the red for example. Then there are metallics. You have to print out multiple times to get the color correct. And now you need a printer to do this all. That isn't a cheap printer. The inks aren't cheap.
So $50 to get 1 page of decals is pretty much an excellent deal. And I am fairly certain anyone charging you $50 is not getting rich.
As others have stated, pixal artwork is worthless. It needs to be converted to vector artwork. Adobe Illustator is the industry standard. It costs about $600.
Then there is the time. To convert a logo from pixal to vector will take 2-6 hours for someone with a lot of experience with the program. This comes from first-hand experience as I recreated Cinelli, Frejus and Gloria logos. I have over 20 years experience using Illustrator. What's shop rate at your LBS? $50-$60 /hour? Granted a decal maker can reuse the artwork, but there is no guarantee you won't be his only customer.
Next is color. Color is an SOB. Is the color in the photograph correct? Is the monitor showing the correct color in the photograph? PMS (Pantone matching system) is the industry standard. Does Pantone have an exact match? Then comes the hard part. Even with a specified PMS color, every printer will print them different. Even 2 different printers that are the same model are likely to print different colors. Then there are usually a few colors a printer won't print well. The chroma is off in the red for example. Then there are metallics. You have to print out multiple times to get the color correct. And now you need a printer to do this all. That isn't a cheap printer. The inks aren't cheap.
So $50 to get 1 page of decals is pretty much an excellent deal. And I am fairly certain anyone charging you $50 is not getting rich.
02-04-11 | 11:33 AM
#36
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,626
Likes: 2,497
From: Bastrop Texas
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Just got these in - Heres a low res pic of two bumper sticker decals I got in last week - At three dollars each they are not bad - Especially for two bikes just cleaned up and rattle can painted...
02-10-11 | 02:15 PM
#38
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,626
Likes: 2,497
From: Bastrop Texas
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
OK - Just put these together for a Univega I am putting together - Its going to be Rustolium Rattle Can Orange as soon as the primer drys - Again these are made for 10"x3" bumper stickers and created using GIMP and Openoffice software - They are just knockoff logos...
02-21-11 | 08:56 PM
#41
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,123
Likes: 98
From: Liberty, Missouri
Bikes: 1966 Paramount | 1971 Raleigh International | ca. 1970 Bernard Carre | 1989 Waterford Paramount | 2012 Boulder Brevet | 2019 Specialized Diverge
These are really great. A couple of us have begun to collect vector art into a sort of archive for everyone to be able to access. Would you consider adding yours to the collection here? This is an open invitation to everyone, by the way.
02-22-11 | 09:42 AM
#43
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 10
Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon
02-22-11 | 11:55 AM
#44
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,123
Likes: 98
From: Liberty, Missouri
Bikes: 1966 Paramount | 1971 Raleigh International | ca. 1970 Bernard Carre | 1989 Waterford Paramount | 2012 Boulder Brevet | 2019 Specialized Diverge
Yes, there's a 100MB limitation, which would be a terrific problem to have! I'm looking into the possibility of expanding without starting a second group.
02-23-11 | 11:33 PM
#45
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,626
Likes: 2,497
From: Bastrop Texas
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Wow - This looks great - But the ones I make are not vector art but just jpegs and sized to about 3"x10" for printing onto a cheap bumper sticker - Hence the name "GettoCal" - But I am sure interested in your site and I think it is well needed - I will be joining your group...
02-24-11 | 12:22 AM
#47
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,128
Likes: 39
Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC
I need to get a image of the Vitus Carbone tubing label (the one on the lower part of the front page shown) as seen on this picture of a brochure that I think came with a frameset sold in the 80's.
I think my brother who works at a big sign company can easily reproduce them as decals for my bike for me, but I just can't find a good image anywhere of it except for this pic I found in the net that I can to forward to him.
Does anyone here have this Vitus brochure that can maybe post a nice facsimile of this front page and add it to this Decal Logo thread so we can use it?
Chombi
I think my brother who works at a big sign company can easily reproduce them as decals for my bike for me, but I just can't find a good image anywhere of it except for this pic I found in the net that I can to forward to him.
Does anyone here have this Vitus brochure that can maybe post a nice facsimile of this front page and add it to this Decal Logo thread so we can use it?
Chombi
02-24-11 | 06:52 AM
#48
.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 12,769
Likes: 38
From: Rocket City, No'ala
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 5.2, 1985 Pinarello Treviso, 1990 Gardin Shred, 2006 Bianchi San Jose
Nice in theory, but not really based in reality.
As others have stated, pixal artwork is worthless. It needs to be converted to vector artwork. Adobe Illustator is the industry standard. It costs about $600.
Then there is the time. To convert a logo from pixal to vector will take 2-6 hours for someone with a lot of experience with the program. This comes from first-hand experience as I recreated Cinelli, Frejus and Gloria logos. I have over 20 years experience using Illustrator. What's shop rate at your LBS? $50-$60 /hour? Granted a decal maker can reuse the artwork, but there is no guarantee you won't be his only customer.
Next is color. Color is an SOB. Is the color in the photograph correct? Is the monitor showing the correct color in the photograph? PMS (Pantone matching system) is the industry standard. Does Pantone have an exact match? Then comes the hard part. Even with a specified PMS color, every printer will print them different. Even 2 different printers that are the same model are likely to print different colors. Then there are usually a few colors a printer won't print well. The chroma is off in the red for example. Then there are metallics. You have to print out multiple times to get the color correct. And now you need a printer to do this all. That isn't a cheap printer. The inks aren't cheap.
So $50 to get 1 page of decals is pretty much an excellent deal. And I am fairly certain anyone charging you $50 is not getting rich.
As others have stated, pixal artwork is worthless. It needs to be converted to vector artwork. Adobe Illustator is the industry standard. It costs about $600.
Then there is the time. To convert a logo from pixal to vector will take 2-6 hours for someone with a lot of experience with the program. This comes from first-hand experience as I recreated Cinelli, Frejus and Gloria logos. I have over 20 years experience using Illustrator. What's shop rate at your LBS? $50-$60 /hour? Granted a decal maker can reuse the artwork, but there is no guarantee you won't be his only customer.
Next is color. Color is an SOB. Is the color in the photograph correct? Is the monitor showing the correct color in the photograph? PMS (Pantone matching system) is the industry standard. Does Pantone have an exact match? Then comes the hard part. Even with a specified PMS color, every printer will print them different. Even 2 different printers that are the same model are likely to print different colors. Then there are usually a few colors a printer won't print well. The chroma is off in the red for example. Then there are metallics. You have to print out multiple times to get the color correct. And now you need a printer to do this all. That isn't a cheap printer. The inks aren't cheap.
So $50 to get 1 page of decals is pretty much an excellent deal. And I am fairly certain anyone charging you $50 is not getting rich.
We charged $50 to get something "camera ready" before making a nylon plate and so many customers complained; they had no idea the amount of work that went to make a picture look right. And this was before Illustrator; we used to blow the image way up, get out the ink pens, then scale it back down. $50 was often a losing proposition for us.
04-28-11 | 12:49 PM
#49
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,626
Likes: 2,497
From: Bastrop Texas
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Sending these off to the bumper sticker dude - Replaced the background with light green to match the bike - Again these are for a 3"x10" bumper sticker - Will post pictures when mounted...
04-28-11 | 08:16 PM
#50
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,626
Likes: 2,497
From: Bastrop Texas
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Here is another set - I did not like the first set when I printed them out and taped them on the frame - People have asked me why I included other logos on the stickers - Its because the bike is not really a restored PR-10 - I am using a modern wheel set, Campy derailuers and Universal brakes on the 531, simplex dropout, PR-10 - Kind of a French/Italian with Oriental shoes - I will post pictures when done... Again these no bigger than 3"x10"...
