I'm so out of touch, it was only a few months ago that I heard The National and really like what they have going on. Maybe not the best vocalist, but good lyrics and great textures in the music. @Zaphod, Freddy was awesome, back in my youth I was caught up in the homophobia surrounding him, now that I'm older, more accepting, and plain just don't care, I can see that and appreciate it. He was everything a charismatic front man need be and a fine voice to boot.

There was an awesome vid years ago with a side-by-side comparison of 2 nickelback hits, they were damn near the same song. I'm on dial-up at the moment or I'd try to find it.

I can usually find select artists in every genre that stand out and really get something from their music. I even have a soft spot for some old and new country singers, but so much of the new stuff sounds like rehashed 80's rock with a dash of twang or vocal warble

Doohickie your Raleigh is sweet!

So, what happened to the Peugeot now?

Many folks are passionate at some point in their lives about the music they like, and even more passionate about the music (or musicians) they dislike. As in, "I love my Band X, but your Band Y is crap. Are you stoopid or what?"

For example, I love the Eagles (or used to, anyway), and Linda Ronstadt, but I can't stand Steely Dan, and especially not the Steve Miller Band. And I sure don't believe Clapton is God, or even a minor star in the firmament.

And that whole punk rock thing? Forget it.

But that's just my taste. And tastes change. These days, I more often listen to country, folk, and bluegrass, and "A Prairie Home Companion", watch "Glee", and love Taylor Swift.

It's easy to forget that the music and artists who get the most airplay, do so because they are popular. That makes them "pop" artists. They appeal to a large percentage of the pop-ulation.

I really like that Peugeot's purple. I've never seen one like that in person.

So with you man...absolutely in love with The National, even if the vocals are not my favorite. I love the string arrangements. I also really like, no laughing please, Tegan and Sara.

Nothing wrong with Tegan and Sara.

The National though, are one of my favorites. The Boxer by the National is in my all-time top 20.

Ah, the stories I could tell about the punk rock days.

Except for the fact I'd sound like someone's grandpa reminiscing.

Let's just say this, I survived the first east tour by the Replacements.

Yep, I was on it.

I'm not a Who fan either, but Pictures of Lily is really one of my favorite songs of all time.

Nor am I a Pink Floyd fan, but I love See Emily Play. Syd Barrett recorded a couple of albums from his padded cell after he left the band, and they have wonderful moments.

And no, Aaron, you're wrong. Led Zep has nothing to do with taste.

As for Pet Sounds... what you're missing, if you don't think it's great, is that this is from the Beach Boys. It was a serious, unselfconscious attempt to create a work of art, thinly disguised as a pop record. It is completely free of pandering to any audience. It follows no known formula. There are songs on it that don't sound like anything else. And there are great songs. A great success? No, I don't think so. The greatest moments are the pop moments, like God Only Knows.

All that said, I'm pretty ambivalent about Pet Sounds. As far as the Beach Boys career goes, it's as much of a tombstone as a milestone. And as for rock in general, Pet Sounds was one of the first steps onto the downward spiral that brought us 'concept albums' and 'rock operas' and many of the worst excesses of 70's rock. I mean, I love the Kinks, but does anyone rank Preservation Act II among their best work?

Thanks. It was totally without plan, just a gradual evolution as I tailored it to my commuting needs.

Syd Barrett...I know how important he is...I love the Soft Boys cover of Vegetable Man...but I can't make that leap. It's totally inacessible to me. The thing about The Kinks is that even their bad albums, and yes, Preservation Act 2 qualifies, have some isolated songs. I'm with you about the decadence of the 70s and concept albums, and I agree that Pet Sounds was one of the things that led us down that road. Still, it's accessible to me and has some great rythms and harmonies. I disagree with it being out of no where (Dylan) and I don't think it's this genius work of art that everyone else seems to think it is.

Keep in mind...I really like simple, well written, accessible pop.

I LOVE The Replacements...especially Alex Chilton off of Pleased to Meet Me.

Children by the millions
scream for Alex Chilton!

You guy lost me at the Beach Boys, I can't bear their sentimental mewlings. This on the other hand, is musical genius:

The only problem with the above post is the suggestion Don Henley is actually sentinent enough to dream. Other than that, I agree. And I agree with Mojo Nixon about Don Henley, too.

Nah, but Muswell Hillbillies had a loose concept, and that is a great album.

That said, there's a few fascinating concept albums, notably Horslips' "Dancehall Sweethearts". I picked up the Pretty Thing's "SF Sorrow" at the thrift store the other day, haven't had a chance to digest it yet.

Concept albums, like just about everything else in this world (except the Eagles, they suck all the time) follows Sturgeon's Law.

I love SF Sorrow, honestly I do. I can't tell you how many times I've listened to that album. But I still prefer their singles! Ever heard 'Walking Through My Dreams"?

And Muswell Hillbillies, yeah, you make a good point. It's really pretty hard to go wrong with old Kinks albums.

I don't know the Horslips album you mention. My education is incomplete, eh?

I think earlier concept albums were generally better because very few bands tried pulling it off and the ones who did were usually pretty good bands with a good song writer. Ray Davies is sharp enough to pull off a concept album. The concept album problem started later, when every alcoholic nit wit wanted to do a rock opera to be taken seriously. Ray Davies didn't do Muswell Hillbillies or Arthur to be taken seriously...or to make some statement...he did them because that's what he felt and it interested him. The problem came in when bands like Emmerson lake and Palmer, or Styx, weren't content just to write a nice simple rock song...they had to make their GRAND ILLUSION!

If you're Bob Dylan, you can write a beautiful, literate song that defies what simple rock can be...the problem was when people who weren;t Bob Dylan tried to be Bob Dylan.

Michael J Fox has NO Elvis in him. Absolutely NONE.

^^But it's hard to fit S. F. Sorrow into that mold. The Pretty Things never had a standout songwriter; apparently the band took Phil May's idea and went with it as a group effort. And whatever you say about S. F. Sorrow (I think anyone who knows it will admit it is a seriously flawed album), it preceded Tommy, Arthur, and The Wall, but heavily influenced them all. I'm not arguing this was a good thing, of course.

It precedes them in the way a chimp precedes a person, but I do agree with your point. The Pretty Things were definitely an interesting band...and unique...but I don't think they're on the same level as The Kinks...or even the Hollies and The Animals. I guess the difference to me is also that the concept behind Arthur is accessible and relateable. It's about a soldier and the decline of England. I like the story, I like the way it's done. It would have made a great book.

Tommy, can you hear me? I can't and I don't care. Some of the songs are good...but Tommy? Seriously? I also can't relate to The Wall.

Speaking of Pink Floyd...if you have to be on chemicals to like something, it's because it's not good. Arthur stands on its own sober. Does The Wall?

I think one of the big problems with the concept albums is a lot of them came out of the "progressive" rock era, and that stuff is generally frowned upon in critical circles. It's a mistake. Tossing Styx into the nearest refuse bin is one thing; shoehorning in the Fripp/Wetton/Bruford era of King Crimson is another.

And people forget there's stuff just outside the prog rock mold that qualifies as a concept, quite easily. "Funkentelechy versus the Placebo Syndrome" comes to mind, as does "Clones of Dr. Funkenstien" and "Moto-Booty Affair". Or one of my all time faves, "Total Destruction to your Mind". Oh, and I just recalled one of the greatest concept albums ever-- Millie Jackson's "Caught Up". Has to be heard to be believed. Thin Lizzy's "Johnny the Fox".

It's worth also recalling that many consider Tom Rush's "Circle Game" the first concept album. He's a folkie.

Be carefull with sweeping statements about genres of music-- there's usually something good in there. I mean, the Eagles sucked, but the Flying Burrito Brothers certainly did not.

Well, we can agree on Tom Rush, anyway. I am listening to archived episodes of APHC right now and just heard Mr. Tom Rush for the first time, and yes, I like his style. And, just to balance the discussion, the Eagles were and are great. Don Henley is definitely guilty of some hypocrisy in his contemporary songwriting, though. Very preachy in his old age. Not unlike the curmudgeonly members of this forum.

I think it does even though I don't consider it their best work. I think its a great narrative about fame and its trappings...and the cynicism resonates with me.

I'm pretty much with you across the board, but with a little less love for Gram Parsons. There are good concept albums, but the overdone 70s prog thing really left a bad aftertaste. Frip-Belew definitely have their moments and anyone who works with Brian Eno is probably pretty cool.

Tegan and Sarah, The National, Arcade Fire, mostly all of the other stuff you hear regularly on 88.5 here in Philly, all good stuff. I'm seeing Okkervil River here in a few weeks. Saw another great Built to Spill show recently, though they havent changed much since 1996.

Funny thing is for me, a lot of the stuff I grew to love, when I first heard it I was not a fan. I appreciate music that grows on you.

OH here's another thought, I...do...NOT...like..the Grateful Dead. That's beside the fact that you almost have to be a walking cliche just to be into them.

Walking Cliche right here.

deadhead to the bone.

it appeals to me as a dude who loves improvisation.


Arcade Fire is cool, I have a thing for Sigur Ros as well.

Anyone gotten into Drive By Truckers? Fantastic band! They remind me a good bit of two of my favorites...Jason and the Scrochers and The Bottlerockets.

i did notice the sticker on your car :) No disrespect meant, it's just how I feel.

Sigur Ros is cool, but I went to a concert once and literally fell asleep. I guess there is some music that you don't want to see live.

OH and I like improv too, but I'd rather hear it from someone else :)

It's music, it's all taste and personal opinion.