What is generally considered to be the cut off year for C&V?

Specifically; I have a '85 Schwinn World Tourist (a couple of the original things are left on it still), a mid-80's SR Sierra Sport (frame and forks purchased last fall), and just got a '94 Trek T50.

Thank you

On this forum, your 80's bikes qualify. In other circles, maybe not. Your '94, not so much, but people still talk about 90's bikes, especially if they are steel or custom or early CF or special in some way. BF C&V is generally pretty inclusive, excepting a few grumpy curmudgeons.

well said Junkyard!

I define a true C&V as before '83-84ish. partly because from about the mid '60s when bike design settled down a bit and the modern "10spd" aka road bike form was somewhat standardized as steel frame, dropbars, DT friction shifters.

I refer to '85ish to about '94 as Nuovo Classics. there were lots of changes, aero brake levers friction shifting, clipless pedals, aluminum was becoming more common as was 'lugged' carbon fiber.

after '94 it seems Aluminum and Carbon was more prevelant than steel, and a monocouque carbon frame became cheaper to mass produce they over took even aluminum to some extent.

I also think 'back in the day' cyclist and racers drove development of new ideas. now I think because bike companies can simply design a new frame or 50spd drive train on a computer, it is force upon up because it is lighter, better and faster than what we had yesterday.

IMHO Nuovo Classics had it all. the pinnacle of steel design, easy to use index (without complicated brifters) aero brakelever for a clean appearance.

Better make that including our grumpy curmudgeons, or they'll get mad!

I can see why you make the distinction of what you call Nuovo Classics, but I don't really distinguish them from C&V; I think they are simply the pinnacle of C&V.

Another rule of thumb that people use for answering the "Is it C&V?" question is simply age: Is it 20 years old? Stuff through the early 90s is C&V; a little later will get you into the tent, as long as it is more classic that trendsetting (for its time).

An interesting "bubble" right on the edge is the early hybrids like your Trek T50. I have a '94 Nsihiki Sport XRS, also a hybrid. It and other early hybrids have been discussed in this forum, but there is not a clear consensus in the forum, although they are gaining acceptance as C&V.

C&V is different for everyone. For me, I think it ended with the switch to STI/Ergo levers and welded frames (instead of lugged). But I also like classic frames with modern parts.

Some think it ended with clipless pedals. I like both.

Some think it ended with lycra shorts instead of wool, synthetic chamois instead of leather.

This is a pretty laid back forum. If you have a steel bike with lugs -even brand new- we will probably give it a thumbs up. If you have a 20 year old aluminum or carbon bike, we'll probably be nice too!

The standard used by the more specific CR list is 1983, but they accept Keeper of the Flame models. Here, we all define it differently, some use the 25 year standard, some 20. Others use a standard of materials or parts styles. A lot of folks here like c and v frames, but like outfitting them with more modern parts. Approaches vary widely.

I'm more interested in classic than I am in vintage...to me a 1964 Schwinn Varsity is a lot less interesting than a 2010 Waterford. Appreciating something just because it's old seems silly to me, especially since there are so many of a lot of these bikes.

yes I did forget to metion brifters as another reason for the end of the Nuovolithic Classicous period. the devolving of the boney protrusions on the DT and the growth of an additional ependage on the brake lever was quite fast.

I don't think there is a cut off for the "C" portion of "C&V".
To me there are plenty of brand new steel frames out there
that fall well within the "Classic" side of "C&V"

My personal C&V benchmark is indexed or non-indexed shifting of the modern variety. So, technically, I don't own a C&V bike

I'll go further...there are even classic CF frames being made and certainly classic ti frames.

I just have to...



This reflects the new:

• Dura-Ace NOS 110mm stem!
• The Saavedra tubular wheels which are done and tires (Continental Competitions!) stretching some (will be glued this weekend).
• The recommended King Iris bottle cages.

BG...Nuovo Classic?

Hey a fellow San Josean

this place is pretty accepting.. once or twice i even posted my 2000 hardrock here lol (cause it's got a more "classic" fully rigid frame)

I think we just did this.

Well, its better than the weekley Fixie rant...which thankfully seems to have gone away.

Wow, we just talked about this the other day. If you think it's classic someone else might too, so don't worry about detracters they will just pass your post. I love lugs and index shifters, just bought brifters and am not sure which bike to install them on.

We need another good GP/Rivendell rant...especially since I might have something interesting (at least to others) soon. I'm trying very hard to end my collection, selling, buying addiction, but this just seems to be falling into my lap.

Almost a week.

When should C+V stop ?

Maybe we should add a sticky "If you have to ask, it doesn't belong here." and let this sort itself out.

Do we need an "Old Men with Old Bikes" section?

I go by the classic/vintage/antique car standards of something around 20-25 years as being vintage/antique. This accepts the concept that time continues and technology marches on. Of course this means:

25 or so years from now, a carbon-fiber Cervelo with 11-speed Campy Record is going to be considered in the classic/vintage/antique category. Hopefully, the curmudgeons will have died from old age by that point so we don't have to listen to their *****ing.

And, 25 years from now, I can't even guess what will be considered a modern bicycle. I still remember the shock I had walking into a bicycle shop for the first time in 28 years . . . . . .

I can't wait for electronic shifters to be C&V

This is de-place !

I just spent a lot of time thinking about this topic. Let's say I spent about four hours a day considering the situation and did so for the past month, or more. Honestly. And this is what I came up with...

How Old Is My Bicycle?

For me, the cut-off date is chronological - 25 years. That is my opinion and you might want to know why. Part of the answer is in the article I just published and it is there for all to view, criticize and/or offer suggestions for improvement. Back to 25 years...

I choose the time frame simply because the technology thing spans years and decades.

A few of my Velo brothers or sisters have mentioned indexed shifting as the logical cut off date and for what appears to be good reason. However...

Indexed shifting is not eighties technology, in my opinion. My mid seventies Raleigh Tourist had indexed shifting, and so did my 1973 Raleigh Superb and and other internally geared three or four speed bicycles of the fifties, sixties and seventies.

Remember, all, we are talking about bicycles - all bicycles, not just road bicycles. Please don't think I am preaching even though that last comment might make it seem so. I am just suggesting looking at the complete forest, not just the trees of greatest personal interest. More preaching. Perhaps I should change jobs. Sorry:-(

Anyway, I will not belabor my point. I see wisdom is assigning vintage qualification, based on the age, not the technological presentation. When two or more people are comparing anything, it is always good to have something (agreed on) to compare to. Again, an opinion.

So, there you have it, in my opinion. But I am willing to change just about anything I think, depending on the argument presented or the size of the guy presenting it.

I vote for 1995!
Chombi

1947

But WHEN in 1947?