I don't intend to do it to be fast. I want the looks, the feel and the ability to ride unpaved roads with more ease. I want it to be my commuter, light tourer and randonneur. But i must be able to ride reasonable fast without feeling like i'm on a slow, sluggish tank.

I'm half tempted to convert my new 87 Trek 400T Elance. If i hate it, i can always sell the wheels and brakes.

Any complaints about running the uber long reach tektro dual pivot?

OK, I've got a Raleigh International frameset waiting to be built. I'll see if 650B is in the cards. I haven't built the wheels yet, so ...

Tom, I've tried fitting 650B wheels to 23" Int'l frames and found the BB to be too low. Ymmv.

Neal

BB height was the issue, not tire clearance?

I like that kogswell.

Yup. I remember clearance being fine with 38mm Col de la vie tires.

Neal

OK, I'll go with those. How do the Col de la Vie compare with the Pasela?

I could convert this, but it's already on 38s. I suppose I would be able to put huge tires on it, but I'm not sure I'd want to. The 38s are cushy enough for me and the cost of brakes, tires and parts to build 2 wheels is considerable. I haven't tried a good tire larger than 38. Maybe I'd be convinced after a test ride.

http://inlinethumb51.webshots.com/27...600x600Q85.jpg

This thread makes me think that the tires on my Rudge 3-speed are not as nice as they should be. Bumps are extremely uncomfortable. I'm riding on Schwalbe Delta Cruisers.

I'm curious about this as well. The more I read about the Hetre's the more intrigued I become.

I have three sets of 650B wheels. The best ones were an eBay find: Rigida Sphynx rims and Campy Record hubs. Far down in the hierarchy are a set I built with Weinmann Zac-19 rims and Dura Ace 32-hole hubs. The most frustrating are a cheapo set of Sun CR-18 rims and Shimano Nexave hubs. Those Sun rims were slightly oversized, so mounting a tire is quite a struggle.

Neal

Thank you, sir. Since my daughter cares nothing about bicycles, you can have it when I die. But you can't have my shotguns. She does want those.

This is my thing. As a professional engineer, I love the engineering marvel that is the bicycle wheel. The bicycle wheel is perhaps the strongest structure ever devised when you look at it ounce-for-ounce. And your wheels have more impact on a bicycle's ride and performance than any other component on the whole bike... bar none. A great wheelset can transform a bike from a slug to a gazelle. I learned to build wheels just so I could know all the secret black magic that those pro mechanics practice... and now I don't trust anyone else to build my wheels.

My favorite thing in wheelbuilding: older 7400 series DuraAce hubs
You can get them for a song... even on eBay where the buyers are insane. I think it's because folks who generally use DuraAce are the kind of folks who want brand new stuff. And DuraAce hubs are very very easy to rebuild. Invest in a big bag of 3/16" Grade 25 ball bearings and as long as nobody trashed the cones and races, you're all set.

So if I was going to build a set of great 650b wheels and try to save money: DuraAce front hub... rear hub depends on your spacing (but if you're doing a vintage frame, then a 126mm wide DuraAce rear is great... good quality butted spokes (I like the really thin ones like DT Swiss Revolution 2.0/1.5 butted... hard to build with if you're new to wheelbuilding though)... good light rims (I used Velocity Synergy rims and loved the way they built up)... alloy nipples. Build them yourself. Save bucks.

I’ve always liked the 650B bikes just for their retro French style. I’ve considered building one up, or maybe converting my Motobecane Grand Jubile, but haven’t done so yet. I have a set of 26x1½ smooth-tread tires on my ’87 Stumpy, and with the fenders and rack it actually looks kind of similar to the some of old French bikes, although with cheap Innova tires and a stout MTB frame the similarities don’t go all that far.
But that makes me wonder, how different are 650B’s from 26”? How would a light road bike with fat 26” tires perform? Is it the particular size that supposedly makes the 650B’s so special, or is it those Hetre tires?

That's such a great looking bike.

Yes, Jobst Brandt stressed this in his book. It's quite a marvel.

I disagree. To me, the one choice that makes the most difference is the tires.

But lightweight wheels come in close, probably in second place.

I don't blame you!

I haven't worked much with Dura Ace hubs, but I trust they are of the very highest quality. And I agree that high quality hubs are a good investment. I've done well with old Campagnolo Record hubs.

I recently had to remove a sprocket and lockring off a Dura Ace track hub. They were on insanely tight. I went through various abusive techniques to get the lockring off. It withstood all my abuse, only because it was extremely well made. I left hardly a scratch on it.

You can ruin your rims, but your hubs will last.

It's not the size, it's the tires. The tires are tall as well as wide. And they're light and supple in the sidewall.

What is said of the Hetres agrees with the general findings on tires by Velocio back in the 1920s. Is there or has there been an empirical test of the Hetres by:
1) Someone who isn't selling them, and
2) Someone who isn't justifying having paid $136 + shipping to put two on their bike?

+1,000,000

I see you are a student of human behavior....

And who would that be? They're tires, not snake oil.

It seems the experience of the Hetre buyers/riders speaks pretty loudly here. I have yet to hear of anyone who was disappointed in their performance, but maybe that's the same justification/reasoning that buyers of those $100 tubulars present. :)

Neal

I'm one of the non-buyers trying to justify my not spending that kind of money on tires...

In my view, 650B-sized wheels are terrific for two kinds of conditions. One is for riding roads like these without using a mountain bike:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-j...1000000251.JPG

The second is for converting road bikes that would have come with fairly narrow 700c tires and a fairly steep front end, such as the Raleigh Competition GS:

http://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bi...ition650B3.jpg

The wider, lower-pressure tires transform the relatively "racey" ride of those framesets and offer a much more comfortable ride.

Neal

Soma has two tires that are essentially 650B Paselas one with a stiffer sidewall. I hope to try them soon to compare them to the CdlVs.

One cheap source is old bikes that had 650B wheels. The Schwinn Mirada during a couple years of its making had 650B wheels. The first cheap wheelset I bought was probably taken off one of these (Alesa Rims). I actually passed a locked up Schwinn Mirada that had weeks growing through it and eventually stuck a tag on it. /checked the rims and they were 650B (584). The property owner called me, said it was abandoned, could i please come and cut it free and take away. I kept the wheels pitched the bike. They will serve as decent back up rims or maybe I'll sell them who nose. Otherwise custom built 650B's will cost you near 300 bucks with decent hubs. With the rims you could try to do a wheel build.

NOt sure if they are the same, but I use the Soma B-Lines 650B and I love them - faster than CDLV and just as durable.

So, how would a Trek 620 do for a 650b conversion? I have one that needs paint, fits 37x700 Pasella Tourguards w/out issue but tucks a little too high in my groin for my liking. The frame has canti mounts so they'd need to be lowered but that's not an issue. Would doing something like this ruin the frame? or should I try to trade it for a 58cm touring frame instead of my current 60cm? I really like the way the frame looks but with the 37s and having it "loaded" it would be difficult for me to navigate my delicates over the toptube

I have seen this done, and it turned out wonderfully! The Trek I saw had the cantilevers
moved to fit, and the fork was tweaked a little bit for more rake.

Cheers,
Chris