Really? In the real world, voting does not establish fact in a case like this. I never stated it was not Mexican built, only that Ray Florman said it was not a Raysport.

The established facts support the theory that it is Mexican built, but does not prove it as we do not know who built it. When Brad is able to remove the 35 x 1 cup, we may have more supporting evidence...depending on if the cup is Swiss or French. Even then it is only supporting evidence, and not conclusive.

I know Brad is waiting for more info from the original owner. Why don't we wait for that instead of making premature statements?

It may come down to not ever really knowing who or where it was built. Either way, it is without a doubt a nice bike and Brad has a keeper.

It is kind of like saying that all Latino girls are from Mexico?they do look alike?

35 x 1 cups are rt hand thread? its a cartridge type both side are just retaining and are like 2 adjusting cups .no lock ring etc.alot like a royce of the day.it is Saavedra bottom bracket from Argentina.thoughts

35 x 1 can be right hand thread, unless it is Sunday and you are in Switzerland, in which case they are left hand thread.

Sorry, could not resist. If the drive side is right hand, they are French. If the drive side is left hand, they are Swiss.

Can you eyeball the threads on the BB once you have the cups pulled to see if French cups could have been jammed in there as suggested? Of course you may not be able to tell.

As for thoughts. We will probably never know. Have you heard back from the original owner?

Lynn,I sent an informal nudge email,we will see,I do have an issue? The bike is not my size?

ok I heard back from the original owner.did Bellini have a line of bikes?if so,who imported them or represented him?

I asked her if she had the name right,could it be Cinelli?she said thats it!! thoughts!!

I think her memory can't be trusted...

I couldn't imagine a Cinelli with French bb threads. Is that what you determined?

She also said her father bought these as framesets and they were $1800 to $2000 in 1975!!you could buy a car for that price!!

Well, I bought my Cinelli complete full Campagnolo for $1,375. in 1984, so I'd guess that's can't be accurate. I had a '75 Cinelli bought from the original owner with the original receipt, and I remember it as $565. from Spence Wolf. Included the receipt with the bike, so I'm going from memory...

If it was Argentinean, why the French threads? I bought a few Argentinean forks, and they were English.

This thread is hard to follow. What is up with all the bickering?

I think the frame was untapped and the father wanted the saavedra crank and bottom bracket in that bike,or it was what he had? the top of the steer tube has an interesting slant to it,in the way it was cut,the stack also has no washer or slot?i'm going to look at the threads closly tomorrow.what is the closest to french threading?

I think its like back in the day we used to say it was so light we could pick it up with one finger?(really!!)

the bottom bracket was an early cartridge type the cups were just retaining cups with locktight on them.probably light for the day.the cups say saavedra argentina 35 x 1 on them? Bellini was a racer did he have bikes made for his namesake? I found some transfers for Bellini bikes.the recollection of the price of things doesn"t concern me,but if her father had a chance to get some Cinelli or Bellini frames that were uptapped and he had the ability to thread them and cut the steertube etc to build his daughter a bike,it is possible?

A re-tapped BB shell, sure, but a bike built with an non-threaded shell, no.

Bickering? Lots of information going around... Some of it makes no sense!

I thought Italian was larger than French or English. It was tapped smaller, or am I wrong?

Italian is the biggest as I understand it.both thread rt hand both sides though.it was probably tapped french to begin with? Why I do not know,but she said it was customed for her,if they picked the saavedra from an order to begin with?the taper may be specific to saavedra and require their bottom bracket,so made this way from the begining..lots of un aswered things here on this one!!

Seems the more we learn the more unanswered questions.

Brad is now indicating that it was originally branded as a Bellini.

Giancarlo Bellini was a pretty darn good pro racer that retired at the end of the 1978 season. He raced for Molteni (with Eddy, I presume!), Brooklyn, then Zonca. He won KOM in the '76 TdF!! Quite a list of palmares.

It is entirely possible that he sold frames with his name on them after retiring. I'd bet Monet that they were made in Mexico!

He almost certainly didn't build the frameset in question personally, as he was still rather busy racing professionally in 1978. Cool story, though, if true.

The French BB threads *are* nutty, though. You don't re-tap to French, so it probably was French-threaded to begin with? Brad, for sure the right-side cup is right-hand threads, correct? Just want to verify that, because if it is left-hand, then the shell may be British and the Swiss cups were kind of forced into it.... And is the fork for sure British? If both the fork and the BB threads are and were always French, I might lean more towards Spain than Mexico for country of origin....

Where is he indicating this? I see where he says he "found some transfers". On the bike? In literature? Where he found the transfers (decals?) is not clear.

J

That much we can be certain of:

https://sargentandco.com/node/228

In his eBay listing, as well as here.

Maybe this is a Spanish copy of a Mexican copy of a Mexican copy of a Cinelli, but with vertical dropouts?

Where here? Do you have a link to Ebay listing, I can't find it?

J