Adventures in (wheel) procuring
10-14-11 | 08:59 AM
#26
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,973
Likes: 145
From: Tampa, Florida
I've bought machine built wheels because they tend to be less expensive. When they arrive I loosen all the spokes and retension them. Hand built wheels for the price of machine built!!!
10-14-11 | 09:02 AM
#27
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,973
Likes: 145
From: Tampa, Florida
Tension meters are 99% B.S. I can tell you from experience that tension requirements vary depending on all of the parts used, its not dependant on any 1 part. One part may have a reccomended maximum tension but that doesnt mean the tension has to be that high.
10-14-11 | 11:20 AM
#28
Large Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,533
Likes: 5
From: Tejas
Just let me know, hell I'll bring the materials up to you! (my workshop is catch as catch can, i.e. wherever I can set up).
mrmw, if you're already truing wheels, have the equipment why not just jump in feet first and try your hand
at building a set of wheels. It's not all that difficult, I highly recommend The Art of Wheelbuilding by Shraner
as a good read and an easy method to start with. Sheldon's instructions are also excellent.
When I started I built wheels, tensioned to what I thought was right and then took them to my LBS for verification and
final tensioning.
Marty
mrmw, if you're already truing wheels, have the equipment why not just jump in feet first and try your hand
at building a set of wheels. It's not all that difficult, I highly recommend The Art of Wheelbuilding by Shraner
as a good read and an easy method to start with. Sheldon's instructions are also excellent.
When I started I built wheels, tensioned to what I thought was right and then took them to my LBS for verification and
final tensioning.
Marty
10-14-11 | 02:17 PM
#29
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 601
Likes: 7
From: Atlanta
Bikes: 1982 Schwinn Super Sport S/P, 1984 Miyata 610, 1985 Panasonic LX 1000, Centurion Pro Tour 15 1983
10-16-11 | 05:39 AM
#30
aka Tom Reingold
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,340
Likes: 6,640
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
This is very sensible. The last wheel I built for myself ended up being a pain, which reminds me that machine built wheels are mysteriously inexpensive.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
10-16-11 | 08:53 AM
#31
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 17,197
Likes: 761
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Maybe I don't know enough about Dyads, but I thought they were fairly strong, a notch or so above Open Pros.
10-16-11 | 07:05 PM
#33
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,930
Likes: 5
From: Toronto (again) Ontario, Canada
Bikes: Old Bike: 1975 Raleigh Delta, New Bike: 2004 Norco Bushpilot
I bought machine built wheels twice this month. To begin with a lone rear wheel from Bikewagon via Amazon at https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00..._ya_os_product, and then again from Harris Cyclery https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/wheels/622.html .
The bikewagon wheel was described as having 2.0/1.8 spokes, 36 count, deore lx hub and Dyad rim. The wheel that arrived had 2.0 spokes. Up on the truing stand it was fairly true and the spokes were well tensioned. It had a few minor hops. A check with a dish stick confirmed that the dish was perfect. All in all, except for the spokes being single butted, a very respectable wheel. I still needed to respace the 135 O.L.D down to 130mm, but my parts bin yielded up the axle and I didn't foresee any problems in that area.
I was worried it wouldn't be strong enough, however, so I called Bikewagon and spoke to the owner, Kurt. We checked the description together. Then he gave me an RMA # on the spot and confirmed he would pay for return shipping. I notice that since then he has gotten the description corrected to single butted spokes.
The Harris Cyclery wheels likewise arrived quickly. Up on the stand, the rear wheel was out of dish several mm--and had no shortage of hops. Several spokes were well below tension. The front wheel was true, but grossly under tensioned to an average of about 65.
I didn't know if my expectations were reasonable--that right out of the box I could ride the wheels for a 100 miles or so before their final truing, but I knew this: the dish on the rear wheel was unacceptable, and the under tensioning on the front made it unrideable.
Concerned, I called Harris. I told my story to two people. Then I was passed to a 'mechanic'--Elton. First Elton told me to take them in to a shop and get them trued. Then he told me at my size/weight I should ride custom wheels. This despite what it says on the Harris site about their premium wheels. Somewhere in our conversation I realized I knew a lot more about wheels than Elton knew about shoes and socks. Then I told Elton 'I'm not gonna make a federal case out of this. Tell me what you'll do, and that's the end'. Elton grunted 'That's it'. 'Okay' I said. We hung up.
Lessons learned:
1. Machine wheels are all over the place.
2. It's just about mandatory to have a dish stick and a truing stand and know how to use them.
3. Bikewagon is a low to the ground operation that stands behind its stuff
4. Harris Cyclery is a shadow of what it once may have been.
It made me sad to think about all the basic bike knowledge I learned from Sheldon Brown courtesy of Harris hosting his work. But facts is facts.
I'm getting backed into the corner to just lace the next wheelset up myself.
The bikewagon wheel was described as having 2.0/1.8 spokes, 36 count, deore lx hub and Dyad rim. The wheel that arrived had 2.0 spokes. Up on the truing stand it was fairly true and the spokes were well tensioned. It had a few minor hops. A check with a dish stick confirmed that the dish was perfect. All in all, except for the spokes being single butted, a very respectable wheel. I still needed to respace the 135 O.L.D down to 130mm, but my parts bin yielded up the axle and I didn't foresee any problems in that area.
I was worried it wouldn't be strong enough, however, so I called Bikewagon and spoke to the owner, Kurt. We checked the description together. Then he gave me an RMA # on the spot and confirmed he would pay for return shipping. I notice that since then he has gotten the description corrected to single butted spokes.
The Harris Cyclery wheels likewise arrived quickly. Up on the stand, the rear wheel was out of dish several mm--and had no shortage of hops. Several spokes were well below tension. The front wheel was true, but grossly under tensioned to an average of about 65.
I didn't know if my expectations were reasonable--that right out of the box I could ride the wheels for a 100 miles or so before their final truing, but I knew this: the dish on the rear wheel was unacceptable, and the under tensioning on the front made it unrideable.
Concerned, I called Harris. I told my story to two people. Then I was passed to a 'mechanic'--Elton. First Elton told me to take them in to a shop and get them trued. Then he told me at my size/weight I should ride custom wheels. This despite what it says on the Harris site about their premium wheels. Somewhere in our conversation I realized I knew a lot more about wheels than Elton knew about shoes and socks. Then I told Elton 'I'm not gonna make a federal case out of this. Tell me what you'll do, and that's the end'. Elton grunted 'That's it'. 'Okay' I said. We hung up.
Lessons learned:
1. Machine wheels are all over the place.
2. It's just about mandatory to have a dish stick and a truing stand and know how to use them.
3. Bikewagon is a low to the ground operation that stands behind its stuff
4. Harris Cyclery is a shadow of what it once may have been.
It made me sad to think about all the basic bike knowledge I learned from Sheldon Brown courtesy of Harris hosting his work. But facts is facts.
I'm getting backed into the corner to just lace the next wheelset up myself.
The first type, will ignore spoke windup, will properly true and tension the wheel, after it turns the first time, the spokes unwind and leave the tension low.
The second type, will true a wheel, but not tension it beyond the point spoke windup occurs.
The third type will properly true a wheel and deal with spoke windup, but it takes a lot longer, so the machine is usually set to one of the other methods.
Your right, simply take the machine built wheel, loosen the spokes until a couple of threads show on each, then put the wheel on a truing stand, get the dish and truing proper, then starting at the valve hole go around the wheel giving each spoke a quarter turn, until the spoke tension seems the same as known good wheel. Since the wheel is already true and properly dished, you could go around 50 times without throwing it off, although leave it in the truing stand so that you can check it every few times around is a good idea.
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