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What are the differences in the various Schwinn Paramount "P" models?

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What are the differences in the various Schwinn Paramount "P" models?

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Old 12-03-11 | 08:43 AM
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Just check the Catalog page posted above. It specs the rims as Schwinn Approved. My guess is they were made by Weinmann, but this is just a guess. The RD would have been Nuovo Record. You have the pedals listed correctly.
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Old 12-03-11 | 02:05 PM
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Original post by pastorbobnlnh
Just check the Catalog page posted above. It specs the rims as Schwinn Approved. My guess is they were made by Weinmann, but this is just a guess. The RD would have been Nuovo Record. You have the pedals listed correctly.
Thank's a lot pastorbobnlnh! That helped me a lot. We use to chat over on the Schwinn site a number of years ago. It's to bad it has shut down. I've always wondered what happen there. Got any idea?
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Old 12-03-11 | 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by silvercreek
Thanks Kurt! I will do that as soon as I get it identified.
1978 P13-9, Campus Green w/optional chrome; original components minus replacement 1987+ Campagnolo Lambada clinchers in place of the "Schwinn Approved" Mavic tubular rims and a late-production Shimano Dura-Ace EX 7200 RD. The RD and rims were likely swapped at the same time; the RD being old stock from no later than 1985 according to Velobase. Otherwise original.

Water bottle braze-ons were available in 1978, even though they look out of place on a Paramount, for bottle braze-ons didn't show up until the last few years.

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Old 12-04-11 | 01:30 AM
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Here's the 1978 P13-9 catalog page with specs. Standard equipment wheels were high flange Record hubs and Schwinn Approved 27" x 1" aluminum alloy rims. I wouldn't be surprised if the Lambda rims are OEM.

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Old 12-04-11 | 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by silvercreek
1. There are no eyelets on the dropouts for fenders. Correct.
2. A full length of brake cable housing connects to the rear brake, held to the top tube by cable clips (Campagnolo, most likely).Correct.
3. The Nuovo Record crankset is a double. Correct.
4. Usually P-13s had the upgraded Campagnolo Record sidepull brake calipers. Correct.
5. And it looks as Campagnolo Low Flange hubs were an option in '78. Campagnolo High Flange hubs standard right?

Does it have tubular or clincher tires? Are the back and front rims different? Clinchers on 27" LAMBDA strada rims. Not correct right?

The only item that seems a bit off would be the Dura Ace RD. But it certainly would be a worthy replacement if the NR RD was damaged. I figure a Campy Record RD right?

What were the correct pedals, Campagnolo Superleggeri?

What were the correct rims?
I know very little in terms of Paramounts but I can tell you based on your pics that the brake calipers are Nuovo Gran Sport not Nuovo Record, also the levers may be GS as most if not all came with black hoods while few if any NR levers did.

The rims are in no way possible "original" as the Lambdas came out in the mid to late 80's I believe. Original hubs perhaps as they were an option.

NR rear dérailleur would be original, not the DA.

FD appears to be 73-77 model, not that it isn't original as I most likely is.

The pedals appear to be original, based on the last catalog scan posted.

Last edited by shnibop; 12-04-11 at 02:31 AM.
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Old 12-04-11 | 05:53 AM
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Well I guess I was somewhat over confident that I was going to be able to use the very nice set of Built in Belgium Weinmann 27x1-1/4 rims with high Flange Campy Record hubs already mounted. I’ve had this set of rims built for about 12 years and now I’m still not going to be able to use them. What a deal!

Does anyone know where I might find the correct size rims?
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Old 12-04-11 | 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by silvercreek
Well I guess I was somewhat over confident that I was going to be able to use the very nice set of Built in Belgium Weinmann 27x1-1/4 rims with high Flange Campy Record hubs already mounted. I've had this set of rims built for about 12 years and now I'm still not going to be able to use them. What a deal!

Does anyone know where I might find the correct size rims?
During the seventies, especially in the early seventies bike boom, Schwinn often substituted when a part called out in the specifications wasn't available. By saying "Schwinn Approved", they could use similarly spec'd - though not necessarily identical - parts. For example, Wienmann and Mavic tubular rims were both supplied on seventies Paramounts from the factory.

I'd keep the Weinmann 27" x 1-1/4" clincher rims if I were you.
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Old 12-04-11 | 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Scooper
During the seventies, especially in the early seventies bike boom, Schwinn often substituted when a part called out in the specifications wasn't available. By saying "Schwinn Approved", they could use similarly spec'd - though not necessarily identical - parts. For example, Wienmann and Mavic tubular rims were both supplied on seventies Paramounts from the factory.

I'd keep the Weinmann 27" x 1-1/4" clincher rims if I were you.
Oh yeah! definitely hanging on to the Weinmann's. I was just a bit concerned about finding the correct rims. I'm a bit confused about rim identifications. What is consider a clincher? I thought clinchers rims were used only on higher pressure tires? I didn’t realize my Weinmann were considered high pressure rims. Did Weinmann not make 27 x 1" rims? Please pardon my ignorance.

Last edited by silvercreek; 12-04-11 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 12-04-11 | 05:30 PM
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A clincher rim uses a tube and tire and is attached/locked in to the rim via the outward pressure applied by inflating the tire. A wire or kevlar cord, the bead, sits in a groove in the rim. Early clincher rims had no lip.

Tubulars/sew-ups are glued on, no bead, no groove, no seperate tube. They can be used at much higher PSI than most clinchers.

Now there are tubeless clinchers.

I'd be shocked if Weinmann didn't offer 27x1" rims.

Not sure what your asking in regards to your Weinmann rims being high pressure. Any decent quality clincher rim will hold up to any kind of pressure the tire being used will stand up to.

If I were you I'd run that Campagnolo/Weinmann wheelset you've got laying around.
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Old 12-04-11 | 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by shnibop
A clincher rim uses a tube and tire and is attached/locked in to the rim via the outward pressure applied by inflating the tire. A wire or kevlar cord, the bead, sits in a groove in the rim. Early clincher rims had no lip.

Tubulars/sew-ups are glued on, no bead, no groove, no seperate tube. They can be used at much higher PSI than most clinchers.

Now there are tubeless clinchers.

I'd be shocked if Weinmann didn't offer 27x1" rims.

Not sure what your asking in regards to your Weinmann rims being high pressure. Any decent quality clincher rim will hold up to any kind of pressure the tire being used will stand up to.

If I were you I'd run that Campagnolo/Weinmann wheelset you've got laying around.
Thanks for the input. As far as using the Campagnolo/Weinmann wheelset. I very likely will do that until I find what I need.
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Old 12-04-11 | 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by miamijim
Here are a few bikes for reference:

My wife's P65 with original reflectors. Somewhere along the way its 27" wheels were swapped out for 700's
A P13-9. When I bought it still had its original reflectors, tires and bar tape. Note the original stem shifters, brake safety levers and vinyl seat!!!!
A P14. Mostly original when I bought it.
On your wife's P65, what brand 700 rims and tires are on it? Will the same 700 rims work with side pull brakes?

Thanks!

Last edited by silvercreek; 12-04-11 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 12-04-11 | 06:25 PM
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The standard Weinmann clincher rims used on Paramounts of the early to mid seventies do not have a hook bead on them, they will not tolerate tire pressures of more than about 70 psi. For this reason, I don't use them on my Paramounts. I am also not fond of the Schrader valve, I much prefer Presta.
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Old 12-04-11 | 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by shnibop
I know very little in terms of Paramounts but I can tell you based on your pics that the brake calipers are Nuovo Gran Sport not Nuovo Record...
Thanks for catching that - missed them.

Originally Posted by Rabid Koala
The standard Weinmann clincher rims used on Paramounts of the early to mid seventies do not have a hook bead on them, they will not tolerate tire pressures of more than about 70 psi. For this reason, I don't use them on my Paramounts. I am also not fond of the Schrader valve, I much prefer Presta.
Not to mention that they're single wall. Even the bulged-bead variants of these rims aren't anything to write home about.

It doesn't surprise me one bit that most Paramounts with 27" Weinmann clinchers wound up having them substituted early in the game. Most examples on eBay show up with Mavic Module 3 or E's as original, period replacements.

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Old 12-05-11 | 12:27 PM
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The ARAYA rims on my '76 Super Le Tour 12.2 has 27" x 1-1/4" stamped on the rims and it has 1" tires mounted. Why couldn't 1" tires be mounted on the Weinmann rims?
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Old 12-05-11 | 01:50 PM
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The best resource for Schwinn Paramount specs that I have found starts with the Waterford Bikes website (www.waterfordbikes.com). Go to "Culture" and check out the Paramount link and the Schwinn Catalog scans. Somewhere in there, I found a link to the Paramount specs, which was basically a list of the standard equipment, colors, etc. for various years. There is also an explanation of the frame numbering scheme. Buried in the Waterford links is the following link, which may lead you to more Paramount stuff (https://www.trfindley.com/pg_schwinn_cats.htm). Waterford will restore your Paramount frame to like-new condition (for a price). Send them an email with a description of what you'd like done and they'll give you a quote.
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Old 12-06-11 | 06:19 PM
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Did I understand cudak888 correctly in his post #28 that the '78 Paramount could have had Campagnolo LAMBDA rims?

Last edited by silvercreek; 12-06-11 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 12-06-11 | 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by silvercreek
Did I understand cudak888 correctly in his post #28 that the '78 Paramount could have had Campagnolo LAMBDA rims?
No, I don't believe he was saying that. The Campagnolo Lambda entry on Velobase says the Lambda Strada rim was first available in 1987. It sure looks like a 700c tubular rim (622mm) to me, not 27" (630mm) clincher. Maybe there was also a clincher version, but in '87 I doubt Campy would have made a 27" clincher rim; it would have been 700c.

Kurt can speak for himself, but the way I read post 28, he was saying he thought the rear derailleur and the rims were put on later, probably at the same time.
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Old 12-07-11 | 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Scooper
No, I don't believe he was saying that. The Campagnolo Lambda entry on Velobase says the Lambda Strada rim was first available in 1987. It sure looks like a 700c tubular rim (622mm) to me, not 27" (630mm) clincher. Maybe there was also a clincher version, but in '87 I doubt Campy would have made a 27" clincher rim; it would have been 700c.

Kurt can speak for himself, but the way I read post 28, he was saying he thought the rear derailleur and the rims were put on later, probably at the same time.
That's what I was afraid someone was going to say. The Campagnolo LAMBDA 700 rims on my Paramount are very nice rims. I was just hoping someone would have said they could have been available in '78. Thanks!
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