Would you consider something like a 50/40/26 with a 12-21 8 speed cassette?

I'm thinking the 50 downwind, 40 (or even 42) upwind (and on rolling uphills), and the 26 to make up for the 21 on the back. I can see where this might be a nice setup, but see it nowhere else except on "sports tourers" of a bygone era. I won't do a 10 speed setup due my poor experiences with the thin chains, and the campy 10 brifters are already on the way across the pond (for my shimergo 8 or 9 rear end setup).

I need about 35 gear inches for the steepest and longest riverside hills around here (when tired), and something over 105 on the top end. I'm just not seeing the payoff of the compact double, nor the large ranges between gears I'd need on a 53/39

Now here's the kicker, it would be on a bike I'd really want to hammer on (my newly acquired tange champion #2 Ron Boi)

Talk me in, or out, of this idea. Thanks for any advice given...

And the alternative is probably the 53/39 with a tight 6 cogs leading to bailout gearing on the back side.

Sounds like a great idea to me.

Me, being a half-step fanatick, would pair a Shimano 12-23 with 26/46/48. This gives 22 out of 24 gears, no dupes, even steps and a low of 30.3" and a high of 107.1".

Here are the half-step with bailout and a compact double with a Harris setup compared:




And here's your 26/40/50 setup:

Nothing wrong with it if it gives the range and spacing you like. I'd probably prefer that triple with 12/21 (I'd probably go to 12-25 or 27) to the tight 53/39 with a bailout sprocket. I've used my 126 frames with the Shimano Megarange freewheels, which are a 13-23 close-ratio 6 with an attached 34 tooth bailout. If your derailleurs will shift it it works nicely, but I like several gears down low, not just one. I did like the close-ratio part of it, however.

I might want to talk you out of that Ron Boi! I've tried to phone him a few times lately - is he still in business? Have you seen signs of life at his store?

Sounds great! I'm running a triple 52-42-26 with an 8spd rear 11-34 nothing I can't climb..

Thanks for the advice.

I really like the idea of adding in half step possibilities on roads where it makes sense to do so. I rarely feel like I'm unable to push another whole tooth on the back, but once I'm gassed half stepping could be a great idea. Nice idea C.B., I'm researching it a little more, but you might have found nearly the magic combo.

I stumbled on the Ron Boi (not in the best condition paint-wise), via the CL "heads up" thread on this board. Then sent my brother out to collect it. Don't have it in my hands yet, but will post photos when I pick it up.

I have a compact triple, and that 50 on the top end is not noticeable, until I get back no one of my bikes with a 53. Why not go to a 11-32 8 speed cassette. That 53 just seems to feel like I'm moving the bike with every stroke. Well that's not so much advice as it is my opinion. good luck

But your riding one of those "Chariots of the Clods" now so your opinion is taken with a huge grain of rocksalt.

I went through all the gear-inch numbers thing when I picked up a 650c.
The chart didn't translate very well onto the road, but it was really interesting to ride.

Trying to make a 175mm arm turn a 56t ring to make an 11t cog turn a 650c wheel into it's 170 counterpart turning a 53t ring to make an 11t cog turn a 700c equivalent was rather disconcerting, and I hope you get my drift on the numbers game. My body couldn't figure out all the differences, and my feeble brain gave up.

While I thoroughly enjoy watching a true master with a dancing chain, I mash when I have to, spin as little as possible, and try to ride steady. I've not encountered enough frustration to make a lot of changes, and while I like being able to select the right gear to maintain a certain pace, I still like the challenge of blaming myself for lack of fitness. I noticed more fatigue at the end of a century with a straight block rear, so I've raised them a couple of teeth.

There is no doubt in my mind that those who can truly understand their gear inches and adeptly shift their way around are masterful riders, and it's like watching a craftsman at work. They are truly consistent with their engines, and manipulate the machine it pushes to achieve consistency. I'd have to tape my gearing to my handlebars to even begin to do that, so I ask more of the engine, I guess, and less of the tools at my disposal.

Like many of the less skilled riders, I think more about each end of the range than what is truly going between them. Before I try a triple, I'll try a compact, as I just picked up one, a 50/36. Not a big step, I know. I'm still in the stages where I can lower tooth count in the front and raise tooth count in the rear, and be able to ride where I need to go. A triple is not needed, and I'm too confused by all those numbers. However, with an eye on the climbing end, if I have to, I will go that route.

And there's always this; imagine the chart with a 54/42/28:

So now I'm even more on the fence. Part of me wants to take the triple and treat it as three separate 1 step (rear cog) ranges (downwind, upwind, climbing), in that I can relate to RT's information very much. Part of me thinks I could learn the half step routine and get good at it.

I fully realize that half stepping is one of those things that I might do only some of the time, more on a flat or small incline than on rolling terrain. I'm also pretty sure I'd "blow it" initially with a triple (downshifting to the small front ring when I intended to go up to the larger ring). That would be a learning experience. It surely would be easier to learn the half step routine with a double where you're locked out of bonehead errors from the start.

If I do consider it three separate "ranges" then I need to very carefully consider the size of both the smallest rear cog, and the size of the middle ring.

I think I'll keep working up combinations and maybe will arrive at something that covers two ranges, but half steps on all but the very top and bottom. Or maybe I'll just put on whatever I find around the shop and be done with it... It's almost more work to be working on a bike that you don't have yet, then to have it and not have to ponder all this minutia...

Use a TA style crank and do something like 46/30 or closer if you prefer. With 8/9 speed rear I find that most triples are more than I need.

+1

Only one duplicate gear ratio.

https://www.gear-calculator.com/#KB=3...5&UF=2099&SL=2

Oh man, truer words were never written. I'm in the same spot with that now. FWIW, I tried, I tried really hard to learn to love half stepping. So did my wife. We just couldn't do it. We live in mountainous terrain, and it was always wishful thinking, an utter lack of skill, or some of both. Our old Treks had 26-45-50, and I am changing them out to 26-36-48 (hers) and 26-36-50 (mine). We'll see if that's better. Mind you, we're running the old Suntour Perfect 6-speed freewheels.

This a good idea if you don't need those top end gears. I have a 50-34 crankset with a 12-27 on my main road bike and I spend 90% of my time in just the big ring and shifting the rear derailer.

Am I the only person that only shifts the front derailleur if I am on a climb and realize I need the small ring? With all these gear charts, does anybody really shift up or down in perfect order or do they just pick a gear and go with it?

*kind of off-topic: today, after slogging into the fierce headwind for 15 miles, I tacked eastward a bit before heading back south. That tailwind was HEAVEN! I was in my 50-12, passing Merckxx, Cancellara, Contador, even Cavendish. Zooming along at 30-32mph was so cool!

I hate to say "me, too", but... me, too!
https://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/jeff-grr/index.htm

Low gear is low enough to climb 15% slopes with full touring gear.

Depends on the cassette. If fender1 is using a cassette with an 11T top cog, that 46x11 is taller than your 50x12.

Not the only one.

I've never seen the appeal of half step gearing...can't see doing 2 shifts for every change. I'm a lazy shifter and can spend most of the day in a 75" gear. I only shift to the small chainwheel for the big hill coming home.

David

Before I get too far down the TA path.... Is the idea of these that the big ring is mounted inward enough so that you use all of the gears on the cassette/FW without apparent cross chaining? If so, then it seems that I pick the large ring and rear cassette that gives me 98% of what I'd want in normal flat/rolling/small hill situations, then choose a bailout gear (on the front) to deal with huge hills. What sort of FD can deal with the big jump (I assume a triple FD wouldn't work at all)?

Yes.

16-18t is nothing a Nuovo Record or Suntour Cyclone or any similar FD cannot handle. You don't want to use a triple.

And you don't have to a TA or even a 50.4 BCD crank. With a 110 BCD crank you can fit a 33/34t small ring and with an 86 BCD crank you can fit a 28t small ring.

I don't think most people ride them that way. You don't need to use the gears strictly sequentially. Most of your shifts will be full steps at the rear. If you find you need a gear in between, you fine tune with the front.

Every time I see the title of this thread I think, I have a hard time handling even two thoughts at once, let alone three. Doesn't matter whether they are crank thoughts or not.

Just returned from the depths of the shop and had an idea...

So I found an old SR city/mountain bike crank set that's 48/34/28 (found on an old comfort/mountain Peugeot that was in a scrap bin with a broken frame)
Say I take the large ring and switch that to the side where the center ring goes
Add some washers/spacers on the side where the big ring was (as I'm pretty sure the bolts will need some spacing for their purchase)
Then I'd wind up with a 48/28 which would give me one heck of a single step range with a 12/21 8 speed cassette

Anybody tried anything like this? I nearly had a stroke when I saw the VO pricing, so I want to do some POC before taking that kind of dive. If it works, maybe even use a sugino 600 instead of the grand cru (as it's probably a better match for the late 80's bike).

Also found an old cyclone 2 FD to experiment with. Now, I just gotta go pick up that bike...

Sheldon Brown's Hetchins had a 50-28 TA double: https://sheldonbrown.org/hetchins/index.html , so it's been done. It's a helluva heave from the small to the large chainring, though.

FWIW: when you move the large chainring to the middle position, just replace the chainring bolts with those made for single chainring arrangements. They're shorter and will tighten the chainring to the arm just fine... maybe.

The outer ring is countersunk for the bolt, and putting it in the middle position may cause the chainring bolts to interfere with the chain when it's on the small chainring. Also, the chain may hit the large chainring when you're in a small chainring/small cog combination.

In other words, it's an experiment. It might work. It might not. Try it and report back.