rhm

I designed the stamps on CorelDraw (which causes some amusement, but that's what I use) and had them made in magnesium (two Ideale, two Brooks) for $120 or so, shipping included, from a place that makes rubber stamps &c. I emailed them the design, and the plates arrived within a week. You can get a bit more information on that in Pastor Bob's "sad fate of an Ideale saddle" thread. I like them so much I'm tempted to have more made. But first I mean to carve a couple myself for a more hand-crafted look.

I bought a 55 lb anvil, along with a set of punches and a 4 lb drilling hammer, at Harbor Freight. Not the highest quality, but I'm satisfied. Peening the nose rivets, especially the ones on the side, is a bit tricky. You kinda have to put the rivet in there, support it on the thin part of the anvil, and hope for the best while giving it a good whack with the hammer. It can be very satisfying, but results are not always perfect!

rhm

I definitely do not know, but I can say (from experience) that it is very difficult to file a rivet when it's attached to a saddle. I mean, it is not difficult to badly, but it is very difficult to do well. One slip and the file goes into the leather, leaving permanent marks.

qd-s

Thank you for your replies!

tony colegrave

The Professional was first introduced in 1962, and all early examples were fitted with 'small' rivets (actually larger than those fitted by Brooks to any of their saddles up to that time, of course). The larger rivets were not introduced until quite a bit later - I don't know exactly when, but I'm pretty sure that it was some time before 1970.
The 1962 saddle illustrated has also almost certainly had it's cantle plate narrowed, and this might possibly be a late version of the 'Condor-Brooks' model - these were 'stock' models that had been modified by Monty Young, including the replacement of the rivets with larger ones which were sanded 'flush' to the leather.

qd-s

Thanks again for the reply!

I am impressed by your expert eye and sense of proportion. Cantle plate of pictured 1962 saddle (# 46) indeed is 6 mm (quarter of an inch) narrower than that of my nearly NOS Pro of 1966 I compared it to ("A 66"/ small copper rivets of 12.5 mm diameter). Provided that Brooks company did not alter Pro's width of cantle plate between 1962 and 1966.

Having taken a closer look at the rivets itselves I am by now quite sure that the ones of my 1962 Pro are standard rivets that have been processed later (hammered-> irregular shapes/fringes + sanded). From the underside rivets look exactly like standard Brooks' and diameter on top is just marginally bigger than standard ones (to me at first glance they appeared to be considerably bigger).

So probably no "Monty Young" saddle. Plus, aside from rivets, saddle most likely spent it's entire life (after production) in Germany.

But who knows...

pastorbobnlnh 

I just won this interesting looking Brooks Team Professional. I have not received it yet, but it does appeared to have been modified.




Here's one of my new Professionals for comparison.



The rivets look as if they need some hammering. Any thoughts? Am I imagining this has been trimmed?

echo

Here's my professional.

Dawes-man

There's no doubt in my mind that it has been trimmed as the edge of the leather is flush with the cantle. AFAIK, Brooks have never sold a saddle with that feature.

I would have thought it would be very easy to hammer the edges of the rivets with a small hammer. I think what has happened is that the leather has shrunk slightly over the years, leaving the rivet edges.

Nice saddle! I have recently started liking Pros more than B17s....

Dawes-man

Has that been butchered? Looks very minimal if it has...

echo

Nope, it's a stock "Pre Softened" saddle with copper rails and rivets, I believe the year is 1989, it came on a very low mileage Trek 420 I bought.

Dawes-man

Ah, that makes sense.

I guess you didn't notice the thread was about blocked and butchered saddles, not stock ones.

echo

Look above at post #56, I was replying to pastorbobnlnh's question, showing him my saddle that's a stock professional.

Dawes-man

Now I get it.

pastorbobnlnh 

Does it also seem odd that the side stamping looks about the correct height from the bottom edge, but too close to the top of the saddle?

Here's an overhead picture of the one I'm waiting for...



...and one of my new Professionals.



Looks as if this Professional might need laces.

Dawes-man

I think it's quite simply that the sides haven't been trimmed, which is the same with every Pro that I've seen that has been butchered. That's not to say that some aren't trimmed.

PS I've just reread what you wrote and that what you were asking was why the stamps are so high. I can only think it's because the leather has shrunk slightly, which fits in with my earlier comment about the edges of the rivets. I think leather does shrink with age...