out of curiosity:

1. what's the best way to distinguish whether it's a thin or thick cup model—especially when missing the spindle? any signifier outside of either the cone or cup?

2. (related to #1) is there a difference in a spindle measurement between the one for thin cup and thick cup? like the length between the flanges?

3. any mechanical difference, or is it just one of Campy-ish hectic variation experiments?

thanks!

This probably needs to migrate to C&V proper.

As to question 2
I just looked it up in Sutherland's a few days ago. There are like 4 pages listing all the spindle lengths. Generally the thin cup spindles are about 4mm longer between the bearing races.
The thick cup have a grooved edge to keep out dirt. The thin cup walls are pretty think. Like a mm thick.

There are a bunch of Sutherland's in PDF form on the net, and I think if you search there is a link in some BF thread.

hey thanks and sorry, moderator. wasn't making sure posting this on the proper C&V... mind moving this, if possible, please?

In the mean time, try this thread:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...iption-meaning

I've been called a lot of things...moderate wasn't one of them.

this is a good question. I hope it does get moved to the C&V forum proper.
The BB spindle section of Sutherland's makes my head swim.

Thick cups are Nuovo Record and they're rifled.

One way to tell is the material from which the cup is made. Older steel cups were thin walled. When Campy switched to aluminum alloy cups for lightness, the walls got thicker for strength. Thus a magnet can give a good idea. As mentioned above, the thicker walled cups usually have groves on the opening for the spindle. Also, if it is a cup for a "track" BB, it is probably thin walled.

Does it matter? You betcha, as I found out the hard way. In my case, the problem was complicated by needing cups that run 3/16" bearings insead of the more common 1/4" bearings (long story not worth telling here, but it involves the rare Campy 74-ss-120 "con sfere" BB that was only made for about four years in the late 50s and early 60s). I found cups with the right threading and that took 3/16" bearings - it turns out Campy had a 3/16" bearing option in their C-Record BBs in the 80s. Cool beans, I thought.

Wrong. The C-Record cups were thick-walled, and it turned out I needed thin walls. The difference was enough so that, with the fixed cup installed, the adjustable cup would not even catch the BB hanger threads. And this was not me doing the work, but a very good mechanic with tons of vintage bike experience, although I did watch the process.

Further research has convinced me that I am in the proverbial "you can't get there from here" situation. I need cups that are 1) thin walled, 2) Italian threaded, and 3) take 3/16" bearings. I can get get the first two of those attributes fairly easily and I hae the second two, but to get all three attributes will take being at the right place (eBay, most likely) at the right time and being prepared to shell out stupid amounts of money. I finally gave up and got a Phil Wood. Considering that the spindle I have is not in the best shape (and they are as rare as hen's teeth), this decidely not period correct solution will have to do.

I moved the thread.

The thick cups have rifling on the inside of the axle hole to push out dirt/grit etc.
the thin cups don't have it. Thats the best way I know to distinguish the cups themselves.
These are thick cups and you can see the rifling on the adjustable cups


Marty

And, for the record, a rendering of how the thick cup (top) and thin cup (bottom) spindles sit relative to each other in a completed BB:



-Kurt

thanks for all the answers. and thanks for moving the thread: lotek

in conclusion, it will not be easy to find a 'right' spindle—when the spindle is the only missing one—by its overall length only, right? no one would actually measure and mark the numbers between the flanges + that ever confusing Campy marking system etc...

this is what i've got, and now i am not really sure whether i should keep looking for a right spindle or just sell it out and lose the headache.

my guess is it's a thin walled steel cup and cone as i don't really see rifling inside nor enough thickness to do so.
an earlier Nuovo Record?

No. Nuovo Record cups are rifled.

As Grand Bois says those are not Nuovo Record, probably Super Record cups.
A good guide to what fits what can be found here (scroll to bottom of page for
table) https://www.bicycleclassics.com/bottom.html
after that either buy from Greg (Bicycle classics) or search ebay
or put a WTB ad here on BF.

If those are steel, I'd suspect they're pre-Nuovo cups. Possibly a set from a 151 Record crank.

-Kurt

The rifling is the advancement that made them Nuovo.

i'm curious if any experts know if switching from a thick cup campy BB (with rifling) to thin cups will allow the slightest bit more space between the crank arms and the bottom bracket cup?

i have a colnago that came with a sugino BB that i swapped to a thick cup campy BB (this is before i knew about thin vs thick wall BB) and the non drive side crank arm is almost bottoming out (i've got about 1mm gap) if i swapped to a thin walled BB will it give me a little extra clearance?

thank you in advance...

diggin around a bit here and there, figured that what i got happened to be:
Campagnolo 3331 [Nuovo] Gran Sport, produced mid '70 - mid '80. Steel, thin cup.
it will take 68-SS-120 spindle, black one.

thanks all the help, folks.
especially for the link, lotek

brooklyn_bike: your answer is in the bottom of that page, as well.
https://www.bicycleclassics.com/bottom.html

^ thank you. that was the info i needed: oddly my bike came with a campy triple but used as a double (minus the smallest chainring) looks like i either need an official campy double crankset or a thin walled record BB. one or the other.

I suspected Nuovo Gran Sport at first, but I don't believe that font or finish was used for NGS. The first-gen Record cups on Velobase are a direct match:

https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...dfeae&Enum=119

-Kurt

i was able to contact my friend who originally owned the bb. he still has the spindle.

and it says
68-SS-120 in the first line, X3-Z in the second line.
about 116mm (bit over 116, he doesn't have caliper), asymmetrical.
appx length on: left to the flange - flange - between flanges - flange - to right is
27 - 2 - 51 - 2 - 35

and the shape of spindle is definitely more modern than the one for 1st gen Record in the link above.
unless they were mix-matched somewhere long before, i still believe it's a GS, triple?

*EDIT*
the closest match overall (except missing "Z"):
Campagnolo 744/1 Nuovo Record Triple , produced in late '60 to late '70
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...=119&AbsPos=18

The old triple spindles were only made for the thin cups, as I discovered when I tried to tripleize my 84 Cinelli. As far as I know, the crankarms were more or less the same (except for the triple having the extra drilling for the inner ring). You just need a thin cup double spindle. English or Italian?

^ italian. i wasn't 100% sure if you could successfully swap in a thin cup spindle with thick cups (or if that would even get me where i needed to be) i'll keep an eye out at the bike swaps - someone always has a few misc campy BB spindles floating around...

Yeah, but does anyone have Italian-threaded thin-walled cups that take 3/16" bearings? If theyr're out there, I haven't been ablke to find 'em.

I finally got out my Sutherland's
Closest listed is 68-SS-120 X3 as old Record or Gran Sport triple. Measurements 27, 54.5, 35, 117.