I posted a thread before about helping me identify this klein that I picked up, I finally got my caliper back and measured the rear drops, and they are 120mm!!

I didn't think klein ever made bikes with 120mm vertical drop outs, This has the press in BB, so I am 99% sure it is a Klein, but could I be wrong?

My late-1970's Klein Stage tourer has 120mm stays. Your frame is likely from that era.

-Kurt

I am rather unhappy with the "expert" I bought it from, he was helping me transfer my 8 speed groupo to the frame sans wheels, and never once mentioned the spacing wouldn't work for my HG shimano 600 group. He also essentially knew nothing about the bike. Does your tourer have vert drop outs? This frame is awfully compact to be a touring frame I thought. I will post pictures in a moment.

My tourer has vertical drops. Mind you, the Stage wasn't the only model made during this period, so it shouldn't be out of the question to find a 120mm-spaced frame with road geometry either. Forgive me if I cannot remember the model names; I haven't quite immersed myself in these frames yet - haven't finished my own frame to begin with:



Granted, not many people expect to find aluminum frames with 120mm spacing; neither is it that common to consider an oversized aluminum-tube frame as a piece from the '70s.

-Kurt

does your cable routing for the RD go through the BB?

Nope, under the BB. It does; however, work its way into and through the chainstay from the bottom.

-Kurt

I see you've added a picture - is this of the actual bike in question?

-Kurt

Yes that is, it has been repainted, only has one set of bottle cage mounts, 1 inch (now threadless) fork, and the cable is under the top tube, like yours, but unlike many other Kleins. My RD cable rids along the top of the chainstay.

And for now it is just sitting on that wheel, I have a set of 600 hubs that I am rebuilding, was originally going to resize them to 126, but I think 120 is out of the question.

Oh and does yours have a 27.4mm seatpost?

Never tried a post in it before. I'll check.

-Kurt

Welcome to the 120mm club!
If everyone thinks its strange that an aluminum frame can come in 120mm rear spacing, what more the CF frame that I just got!

But I guess it is 40 years old!

Chombi

Ok them chombi, is there any way to run a HG 8 speed on a 120 frame, I find it highly unlikely, but there are some creative people out there.

8 speeds in a 120mm spaced rear end??? I don't think it will fit as 7 speeds in a 126mm spaced frame barely makes it on some bikes. 6 speeds might be the phisical limit for a 120mm spaced frame, specially frames that will not take kindly to any sort of "cold setting" like Al and CF.

Chombi

an internal geared hub would be an interesting option.

If that were only possible with vertical drops. Internally-geared ENO hub, anyone?

-Kurt

That is what I thought, sadly this bike was going to be my main ride, so I would at least like 8 speeds and a freehub, guess either this frame will go off to market...

The 120mm spacing was standard for 5-speed freewheels and the standard 6-speed freewheels required a frame to have 126mm spacing, but you can use an Ultra 6 freewheel with 120mm spacing, but 6-speeds is your limit. This also raises the issue of an Ultra 6 being designed for use with friction shifters, but 7-speed indexed shifters should work just fine with the Ultra 6 freewheel.

I think using a 7-speed freehub may still be possible by respacing the axle and redishing the wheel, but I am guessing that an 8-speed freehub (designed for 130mm spacing) would be a bit too wide.


SheldonBrown.com - Traditional Thread-on Freewheels
Ultra 6 Freewheel
"Ultra Six spaced 6 speeds used a closer spacing, around 5 mm. This permitted an Ultra Six ® freewheel to directly replace a standard 5-speed unit on a 120 mm hub. The key to making this work was the use of a narrower chain. The interior width of the chain was the same as always, but the new narrower chains used shorter rivets, so the ends of the rivets didn't protrude past the outer chain plates, as the rivets in traditional chains did"

Ultra Spacing
"An early type of 6-speed freewheel made by Sun Tour, in which the sprockets were closer together than those of a 5-speed or normal 6-speed freewheel., allowing the use of a 6-speed freewheel on a hub built for a 5-speed cluster, in a frame with 5-speed (120 mm) dropout spacing. A 7-speed freewheel could be used with 126 mm dropout spacing.

Ultra spacing, 5 mm center to center,is identical with the spacing of Shimano 7-speed cassettes; Shimano 7-speed or 8-speed shifters can be used to index these freewheels. This shifting isn't as clean as with Hyperglide cassettes, but it is much nicer than friction shifting.

Ultra spacing was made possible by the development of chains in which the ends of the rivets did not protrude far past the side plates. 7- and 8-speed freewheels are also Ultra spaced, but the term is mainly used to describe the narrow 6-speed units."

Yeah , I just don't want to delve into freewheels again if I can avoid it. I am trying to narrow down my parts range to the shimano x400 era and siimilar

With creativity you could probably respace a 126mm HG hub down to 120 and run 7 cogs from an 8speed cassette. I've never done this so I can't comment about the dish.

true, i guess i could try that. find a 6401 hub.