I went to my LBS for a road bike brake cable and was directed to the LBS "mechanic", who handed me a shift cable.
...Easy mistake to make.

"No, actually it's a road bike BRAKE cable I need"

So he handed me a mountain bike brake cable.

"No, you know, the kind with the bullet on the end, not the barrel"

- That seemed to do the trick, but I don't think I'll be going back there for a cotter.

I see your point about Applebee's -but nobody says "support your local Applebee's" or it will go broke and all will be sad and gnash their teeth due to its passing.

These LBS's expect us to patronize them and berate folks who chose other options. Seems to me many of them are not giving US the option to take them up on their expectations.

When people get sick of crappy burgers at Applebee's they will fade away. Same with the LBS...

Most of the shops in my area do not stock much of anything other than new bikes ,clothing ...

any parts on the shelf are items that move fast, chains , tubes, cables, brake pads , brand name pre -packaged thread less stems , some tires (good luck finding 32 in 700) , tools ETC.

maybe 1 rd 1 fd no cranks, some pedals, enough bolts spokes ... for emergency repairs

I went to one shop thats on my way home from work that sells High end bikes and inquired about white cable housing , he looked at me like I had 3 heads he chuckled "Not Here"!

of all the LBS I have 2 are pretty good, but one is 50 miles away , the other is 16 miles .

1) they only sell and service bicycles , no skis , skate boards etc

2) these bike only shops have a fair amount of NOS stuff and will keep/sell used items taken off of serviced bikes.

most of the LBS (a good friend of mine manages a big shop) Most i've found keep parts to a minimum and are loaded up with New bikes and accessories (that's where the $ are) and if you need a 1 inch threaded headset , they will be happy to order it and you'll see it in 2-3 weeks.

the bike only shops do OK on the parts stuff though its hit or miss but often theyll have an NOS item that will work . Online is always better / more choices.

local shops are not geared to DIY types. they expect you to leave your bike and wait for parts to come in they'll call when its ready.

"John"

I'm not sure most of them do. Certainly not guys like you and I who do our own wrenching.

We and our penny-pinching, homebrew, DIY ways are seen as a general PIA by most shops. Same as if you took a 1973 Nova into a GM dealership and asked them to rebuild the straight six engine.

The good ones certainly don't. But I've seen quite a bit of sniveling and crying in local forums by shop mechanics and a few owners about how "folks like us" are killing them by not "supporting the local LBS." I've been told straight-up that I should have ordered a dyno-hub from them rather than paying 1/3 the price (and getting it the next day) from Amazon. Srsly? I don't feel I "owe" anyone anything and when folks feel that I do "owe" them something for just existing I get a bit bent out of shape.

Maybe things are different here in Chicago where there is a bike shop for every square mile of the city (if not more.)

What can or can't be with an LBS depends on the market, unless the store is a person's hobby with business hours. Close to our home we have several "roadie" type stores, carbon bikes along with city bikes and coasters but mostly lycra, shoes and helmets. Reparis are mostly hanging parts. We also have an old school shop, which is closer to the "less desirable" town, there you find a mix of everything including vintage becase that's what people in that town are still riding. You can get a steel rim de-bliped, have a tube brazed, or training wheels adjusted...come on the right day and instead of buying a tire or tube, the owner will show a customer how to mount it with out pinching the tube, he'll also build up a kids bmx wheel cuz he finally got the purple spokes he wanted, or braze up a frame for you ( if you beg and plead long enough) It's all about the market.

Want a C&V type store in your town?.......Then stop buying on-line and start buying from your local store, ask them to order the part from you. It may cost a bit more. but if you support your local LBS...they micght just be there when you need to repair a drop-out on your beloved steed!

local bike shops are an interesting sort around here. One went Big S concept store, not sure how that is playing out for him. Five others, one is an enthusiast oriented shop, (nice owner) has 20 cruisers out front, so one has to adapt to the market. Another is a hobby it appears to me, open 3 hours per day, focused on real track bikes. The others struggle in that bmx, cheap mtb/hybrid world. Those don't appear to be really prospering. A few lesser shops vaporized a while back.

Avoiding the big trio of brands is a challenge it appears. Even the "independent" shops face distributors who have tire "programs"... if you want when you need, you have to order up big.

I'm not so sure buying on-line, at least for C&V, is the LBS worst problem. If you know central NJ, perhaps you remember ProTour, they were in Westfield for many years. The rents skyrocketed there, and the owner ( son of the original owner) moved out to Rt. 22, to a poor location behind a garden store. I stopped into see him last spring. He was down to working by himself, lamenting BMX kids couldn't get to the shop, and was planning on moving again to another town. I was in the area a couple of weeks ago, and they were long gone, hopefully to a better spot.

On the other hand, a few years ago a shop in my area had just become a Trek dealer and taken delivery on 50K of bikes, when they had a fire that gutted the place. Trek backed them up and they are consequently very loyal.

Being in Brooklyn, I'm lucky to have several LBS's within 5 or 10 minutes ride. I mainly patronize two of them, and they often have what I need. If they don't, they will order it and I'll get it just as fast as from amazon. I like to support them.

That said, I won't buy something if it is significantly cheaper online, after factoring in shipping & tax. For instance, I don't buy chains at the LBS because the same chains they charge $20 for, I can get for $7 online.

Ummm.... yeah right.

Some of the comments here I find pretty scary. There is an air of holier-than-thou and cockiness in some of the posts that is downright unsettling.

I also wonder if people even understand how most businesses operate. A brick-n-mortar store (of any kind) has a lot more hoops to go through than people give them credit for. It's not a simple buy item X for $1 and sell it for $2 in the store.

First you have to carry a huge variety of stock in a bike shop. You need a good variety of bikes, each with different sizes and component packages as well as different price points. You need "bling" products that people are going to buy to upgrade their bike. You may need road, mountain, and bmx parts in different sizes and eras that rely on different ways to be installed. You generally need to carry a line of clothing, helmets, gloves, etc that is going to be varied enough in color, design, sizes and price points as well.

On the repair side you need to try to carry as much as you can in parts that will fit anything from early 1900 bikes to modern carbon and titanium dream machines. The list goes on and on.

Many of the companies that put out these products are concerned about their bottom line first. They require shops to only carry certain types or risk being expelled from the product line. They require shops to order a certain amount of product, often more than the budget of the shop can comfortably handle.

That's just the tip of the iceberg..and we're only talking about merchandise in the store.

Then we move on to more costs. The shop has to rent/buy a place to operate out of. They have to pay for utilities just to operate. They have to shell out for business licenses, taxes, etc. They have to hire a crew to man their store and work the sales and mechanical issues. Again, I could go on.

Just at a simple level, we're looking at Merchandise cost + building costs + license/misc costs + labor costs. The only thing being subtracted from these costs are sales (whether product or labor). Most bike shops go through various stages throughout the year. Winter can be a very rough month in terms of product and mechanical labor sales. Spring brings in a rush of sales that slow down to very little again come the late fall/winter. Even when sales are low, they still have costs to pay in things like labor and building fees.

The end result is a very sad margin when it comes down to it. To help try to increase or get some profit, they have to keep costs lower. This often is going to be done by labor of their workforce. They are forced to pay lower wages to make a living, making skilled personal less likely to stay for long. They are also going to cut hours in the rougher months, meaning even more of those skilled personal who have mouths to feed are tempted to do another line of work.

During all of this, they have to also compete against other LBS and a variety of stores (Wal-Mart, etc) as well as the online competitors. People that get wrapped around the cheaper online prices or Wal-Mart prices go there instead of the LBS. If the LBS has (example only) $2000 in costs, he needs to sell $2000 just to break even. When everyone frequents his shop, he can sell 2000 water bottles for $2 (cost of $1) to make his cost payments. When only half the people frequent his shop, he sells 1000 water bottles.

If he were to sell them for $2 he's losing $1000 already of what he needs to make. Instead, he's going to need to increase the price of the bottles to settle his debts. On top of that, the distributer he buys the water bottles from also needs to make their money. They bump their prices to $1.50 a bottle or such to make up the loss of not selling as many water bottles to the LBS. That forces the LBS to bump up their prices even more.

You and I then go into the shop to buy a water bottle. We see the new price of $4 for the water bottle and say screw that, I'll just go online and buy the bottle for $1.50 (internet dealers are going to have a lot less in overhead and a wider market to sell). That means the water bottle sales the LBS does just dropped again from 1000 to 998, forcing higher prices again. It's a cruel circle.

Eventually, shops that don't get enough business go down. Way to stick it to the man, guys.

Also on the list of LBS problems is dead merchandise. They need to carry as much as possible to take care of any customer or problem, but anything that doesn't sell is a loss for the shop. If item XXX sells only a few times a year, it might not make it profitable at all to carry the item as all of the extras that do not sell are a loss. If they just order a small quantity of the item, they are forces to pay higher costs and reduce their profit margin.

So basically the B&M LBS is an inferior business model compared to the internet super bike wholesaler.

Too bad. That's how the world works. What happened to all those businesses in the 70's that re-chromed auto bumpers? Times change...

There are a few brick and mortar shops that have also made a go of online selling, those have survived a bit better. Finding a niche and filling it is probably the way to go.
I went to a local sanctioned road race and was surprised at the number of shops that had a tent there, to provide racer assistance, show stuff, build goodwill. This was unheard of not too long ago.
It does make the business a 7 day a week job though, so you better like it.

Interesting discussion. Like many other retail/consumer businesses, bike shops have to/have had to change to suit the market, because the market determines whether you'll be successful. If the high traffic customer base wants to buy new bikes and have them serviced when they're dusty, then the shop will be light on parts except for the stuff that wears out on the brands/models they sell. To do otherwise is poor business for all of the reasons listed in previous posts. Apparently many bike shops that are keeping the lights on and the doors unlocked are selling one or two brands (narrow and deep) plus accessories and clothing relevant to those brands. I don't hate those shops, they're just not relevant to my interests.

Local shop is an excellent bunch of guys, fun to ride with, nice to chat with & happy to help when I have to remove a particularly difficult bottom bracket. They go all goofy and drool-ish when I bring in a bike I've built but they know they'll never sell me a new one. I drop off a six pack of micro brew every month or so to keep the karma up.

WOW so many responses


this seems to be true for me. on a visceral level i really want to help out a knowledgeable LBS, but it is just so much more fun for me to wrench on stuff myself.

factoring in the ease, large/diverse stock of products and significantly different (cheaper) prices online, it's become impossible for me to justify going to an LBS these days. Maybe if I had one close to me like some of you do, who offered what I needed and had a pleasant/knowledge staff, then maybe I would frequent more often.

@savagewolf

great post and you make really good points. and to many extents i agree.

but i also have to agree with the others in saying its the market that determines somethings value. maybe the LBS, or atleast as we know it, is an antiquated concept that just can't be successful in the 21st century. perhaps its their failure to innovate and adapt to the market which has lead to their own failure to thrive.

its really hard to justify paying the premium of the exact same product at a brick and mortar just so they can make their overhead. and for some, this might be reasonable. but for many others it might not be. college students on a tight budget for example, other low income people, or people like me who live car free and are inconvenienced by all the time and effort it takes for them to order something I need. why should I have to waste so much time making multiple trips to a from an LBS to pick up a specially ordered product and on top of that pay the LBS premium, when I can just order from amazon for much cheaper and have it delivered to my doorstep???

I don't think "the market" decides what's available in a bike shop. The suppliers take care of that. In the bike biz the few suppliers left wield enormous market power. They tell the LBS's what's available and the LBS pass it on to the consumers under the guise of "what they need". Most customers naturally don't know what should be available. They only know what's already in the shop and what the sellers recommend. And if the guy in shop says you need a mountain bike with front shocks for your trips to the store, that's what you're going to get. Not some fully fendered commuting wonder you've never seen or heard about.

The guy at the LBS gains nothing but frustration by telling her/his customers what they really need and then having to follow up with "...but nobody makes that".

Source: Countless conversations with the veteran owners of the two good LBS's in my area and young mechanics at sports shops.

So people don't get the wrong idea, especially after my mini-rant, I just want to let folks know that I'm not gunning after one specific person or saying the internet is an evil, evil thing. My main point was that people need to be aware of why things are a certain way before they make their choices.

I myself use the internet to buy things, but if I can get it reasonably then I try to support the LBS. Maybe I'm just a lucky guy and the Salem area has 4 pretty decent bike shops around. The one I frequent I'm especially impressed with. I know that if I use their services they'll give me a 110% effort.

I also recognize the limitations of my bicycle mechanical skills and time. There is always going to be something that one of the guys at the shop who have 10-20+ years of experience are going to know or be able to do better than me. There are also going to be times in my busy life where I just might not have the time or experience to do it myself.

I love wrenching when I get free time, but I'd also rather be on the road wearing down the rubber on my tires instead of in my garage. It's sometimes more valuable to me to drop the bike off during work hours and picking it back up after work to get a job done. Then when I get some free time that night I can hop on the bike and just go.

I do 99% of the work and maintenance on my bike, but won't hesitate to drop a few bucks to support the LBS. They are people too. I prefer the personal touch of a LBS over the internet screen if I can manage it.

No. I took Alan a wheel build though. The shop is the little one in Exton I told you about before.

K&G Bikes in Dayton (Kettering), Centerville and Xenia Ohio are just, flat awesome. They have a full service sales, service and repair shop, where all the associates are avid bike enthusiasts.

We are very blessed in the Dayton area.

https://www.westhillshop.com/contactus.html

David is the manager. My name is Frank

Wasn't Rent....Westfield has a shop selling CF & Lycra and is doing very well, been there for years. Westfield is a rich man's town...they know their market. Riding through on a Saturday morning looks like the TdF for the 62 and over crowd


Again, missed the market....Pro Tour is now on the Blvd. in Kennilworth. Wrong town to be selling BMX gear....that's CF & Lycra territory.

Maybe not but every $ on-line is one less in the local cash drawer....in a small shop $100 or $200 a day in sales can make or break the day.


Local shops can not exist if we do not support them...it's rather simple

I had a nice conversation recently with a small shop owner that just opened up his shop in the SF peninsula (Redwood City). Real nice guy, maybe a bit younger than me, but old enough to know all about C&V bikes so we had a real nice time reminiscing about the good stuff back then and he recognized and can described all my C&V bikes when I mentioned to him him their names and models after he asked what I ride....just before I had to leave, he politely asked me what he can help me with, so I asked him if he had any toe clip straps that I can use on my 70's project bike. I wasn't really expecting that he had anything close to what I want (something maybe similar to Bindas), maybe some modern straps from newer makers I never heard of, but I was surprised when he apologized and said that he just can't carry such things in his shop unless he decides to specialize on selling SS or Fixie bikes, because his market niche are modern racers that only have clipless pedals. I then just stat to notice that he only has these uber expensive CF monocoque modern racers on his showroom floor and modern parts that are all current tech. Which kinda tells me that these guys who put up these new LBs's really have to find a particular niche to sell to and the days of the old "all purpose" LBS with all sorts of nice modern and C&V stuff that you might find in their dusty backroom shelves are pretty much going extinct and I was talking to the future of LBS's.

Chombi