Very goo concise explanation of the situation. My boss always told us that if anything is more than 5 years old, take it home, donate it to co-op or throw is in recycling. I think I worked in the bike shop with the smallest storage space of any shop EVER ANYWHERE doing over 1 mil in gross sales. It was a small shop. But I got to decide what tires to bring in and often they were different due to lack of stock on the supplier and only being able to keep about 10 27" in stock at a time. I liked the serfas seca's and would also stock the generic $15 and also some schwalbes. Often they would sell out in a weekend and I'd have nothing for a week, other times they wouldn't move for months. LIke pcb says it's all about quantity and margin. 60-70% of our tire stock consisted of conti-touring plus (best value for touring and hybrid) and conti gator skins... with a smattering of other high and end models and brands. We sold more continental than anything else and that is because A) they offerred some of the best value and B) the supplier offered better terms on booking and quantities and gave us pre-season pricing on conti because the volume, this allowed us to be more competitive with other shops and make better margins. As it was the owner after 20 years, working 6 days a week makes a MODEST living. The LBS is a tough tough racket and it is very hard to get good staff in an industry that pays crap wages...

in Australia the wages are better and there are benefits and more vacation I hear.

Boulevard. Not a bad shop at all. The owner is super-cool. It's not horrible to have a decent shop like that a block from your house.

Still, the LBS can't have everything and some stuff is just impossible to stock when the demand is too low.

Don't forget that the Big Brands have all moved into the clothing/parts/accessory business. You don't get A-level pricing on T/G/S bikes unless you carry/order a minimum amount of T/G/S helmets, shoes, clothing, tires, tools, saddles, seatposts, stems, etc. You only have room/money for so many tire SKUs, if your main bike brand ties up 60% of that inventory there's less room for anything else. So cyclotoine likes Conti, orders lots because they're good and the pricing/terms are right; if there's a T/G/S brand in the store most of the rest of the tires are T/G/S house brand. You're going to disappoint the guy coming in looking for in-stock Vredestein Retro or Grand Bois 650b Cypres tires 'cause you just don't have room/money to stock it all.

Kudos to cyclotoine's boss for turning his inventory, his living would likely be even more modest if he had twice the space and turned the inventory twice as slowly.

My lbs's don't stock any seatposts, can't respace or straighten frames and don't stock 650b which the majority of Norwegian bikes from 1930-1980 need. So no, I don't feel the slightest urge to support them. They could have supported me and the thousands like me, but didn't. I don't go in there asking for esoteric springs for Simplex Rigidex for Gods sake. Just basic stuff that is mass produced around the world.

So I say remove all VAT on imports and let the annihilation of brick and mortar shops begin. If no LBS's in my country can provide knowledge, spares of any kind or assistance they have no place in the world. The stuff you need is only a paypal transaction away.

I don't know anything about the bike business in Norway, can't understand why an LBS wouldn't stock replacement seatposts, can understand not having staff that can profitably respace or straighten frames. I'm not saying that's a good idea, or that's how I'd want my hypothetical store to be, but I can understand not being able to do that profitably. You're not asking for obscure small parts, but it sounds like you are asking for a tire size not used in your market for 30yrs+. Maybe there are thousands that would sell in a year, but maybe there isn't the quantity necessary nationwide for your average LBS to stock them.

If enough Norwegian consumers feel LBS offer them nothing they can't get online, the LBS may either die off or change/adapt. If they don't change/adapt and manage to survive, maybe you're not a big enough part of their business to matter.

Alan?

This LBS keeps my bikes in tip top tune. And I learn about farming, rowing, bike history, whatever is on Ron's mind that day.

The system is not making it easy, in any way, shape, or form, for an LBS to make a living.

Ir doesn't help that bicycles are such simple machines to operate and repair for many serious owners that a "dealership" model where the buyer comes back for repeat service and help does not really make much sense much of the time. For many bike-owners the LBS is unessential. They can buy the bike new or even used elsewhere themselves, set it up themselves, work on it themselves, buy wholesale parts for it themselves, and purchase accessories at big-box stores or Amazon.

Many bicycle enthusiasts have more skill and knowledge with working on bike (especially the vintage ones) than the typical shop mechanic. The LBS focuses on the "latest and greatest" as folks above have mentioned -but bicycles can and do last for decades. They are pretty much putting themselves out of the game here.

I feel for the LBS -but they are becoming irrelevant and much less needed in today's market reality. Perhaps with more new riders coming in with less knowledge and fewer skills they will be able to survive for a while longer.

Less knowledge, fewer skills, and a fat wallet. I have come to realize over the past couple months of riding with various groups, the new riders drop big dollars on trivial "latest thing" products. The "new" LBS is more of a boutique shop. Pricey, exotic bikes, components and clothing. Its a very different rider out on the group rides I do. Lawyers, stock brokers, businessmen, these guys are loaded and drop huge amounts of money on their bikes. I overheard one say that his time is worth more than what the bike shop would charge to do some work on his bike, so why not have the bike shop work on it. Most of these guys would have a hard time changing a tire anyway.

I agree.

But even if I was so well-heeled that my "time is worth more than the LBS wrench" I can still do most any job faster than it would take for me to load the bike up and drop it off at the LBS and then mess around waiting for it to be fixed or making a second trip to go back and pick it up.

Just trying to get a shop to call you back and tell you your bike has been finished is more of a PITA than most simple maintenance jobs entail.

I think that perhaps coming into the activity with zero knowledge it's easier to make multiple round trips to the LBS for routine simple tasks because of the effort to learn/build these skill from absolute scratch may seem harder and less worth it.

When it comes to mechanical aptitude I am constantly blown away by the complete lack of it these days for most kids under the age of 40. Schools are failing kids today in so many ways. Not only can they not wrench -but they can't even THINK clearly so that they can figure out simple tasks for themselves.

The OP makes my grateful for my LBS and the 2 other shops in Pensacola, Florida. Cycle Sports Bicycles, Pensacola is my personal favorite. You an stop in and just shoot the breeze with the men and noone thinks bad about taking time to talk with you. they carry a pretty good selection of accessories, tires/tubes, components and a small amount of clothing (this one is not a good area for them, but Tom tries really hard to cover this.) They have a couple of vintage frames hanging up, for sale, good selection of vintage parts in the back, and will get things quickly if it isn't there. The service is first rate with experienced guys. They repaired a set of RSX brifters I had butchered by trying to rebuild them without any directions. Charged me a ten spot for this and saved me from doing the eBay shuffle to bid on these scarce brifters.

This shop, and the other 2 here, have to stroke hard to make it with the box stores selling the crap usually offered to unsuspecting buyers. I do buy a few things on-line, they are aware that people are going to take advantage of some deals on the 'net. But I spend my money there, gladly, because they offer you personal service and when it is N+1 time they go the extra mike to put you on a bike that suits and fits your needs. Both the others are like in their service, I am just a Cannondale guy and like the really homey atmosphere at CSBP. No chain or big line stores like Performance here. Small town in the deep south trying to make it and doing a great job for me.

Bill

In my small town a new small bike shop opened up. I've sent a few neighbors with older bikes down there for parts and service, stuff I used to help them with but lately have little spare time for. They might have a chance, might, tough business to be in.

"I feel for the LBS -but they are becoming irrelevant and much less needed in today's market reality. "

I don't agree that the lbs is becomming irelevant, but with the economy the way it is people just go to the big discount store and buy something that will sort of work. When they have problems with their discount quality bike then they either give up on it, take it to their nearest local bike shop and complain that the repairs will cost more than the bike did new, or will just go buy another discount bike and throw the other one away or sell it at a rummage sale. I've gotten a fair amount of usable parts from throw-away bikes to help keep mine and the relative's and neighbor's bikes functional.

Still, it is a tough business to be in.

Maybe the crummy box store bikes fit the current mindset about purchases in general. Buy it at the rock bottom price from the faceless big box store. Don't worry about how long it will last or the quality of the build and materials. Then loose interest in the item after a short time and move on to the next fad that goes viral. If the cheap bikes ever come back in to vogue. I wonder how many of them will be around and in working order to be sought after. these bikes are like the rest of our consumer mindset, buy cheap, buy often and throw it away when It breaks or they loose interest.

I don't think I ma the first one here to say this and not the first one to think about it, either. An LBS is a thing form the past, unfortunately, and I don't want them to go the way of the electrical appliance repair shops.

Bill

It sounds to me that everybody has been pretty lucky. A number of years ago I went into a very reputable LBS and told them I wanted a new crank and freewheel to upgrade the drive train on my '87 TREK. I was told point blank that it couldn't be done without replacing the derailers, shifters and bottom bracket and new rear wheel. He immediately started showing me new bikes ranging in price from $1200-$3000 because my upgrade would be too expensive and my bike wasn't worth it. I went home ordered what I wanted for around $135 and lived happily ever after.
Since then a number of shops in the area have tied their website into QBP so I can order whatever I want and receive it locally. Those are the shops I deal with now.

Marc

I'd agree with this. I'm on another board (audio) that some of the members have gotten into cycling, and it floors me how much money they will drop and what they feel is indispensable. $250 bike fittings are considered normal for any purchase. They are into steel, but it is modern, and if it isn't custom, something is wrong. One of them crashed a couple weeks ago, and took the bike back to the LBS to have one half of the bars retaped...

If a component, such as a bottom bracket, wears out within a year, they consider that normal and just have it replaced. And these are high-end parts (ceramic bearings, etc.). I guess their LBS' love them though, and well they should.

Me: I don't have a local LBS that I really like. Performance? Ehh. There is a small (2 store) chain LBS that I find to be really snooty, as well as another 2 store LBS that I don't mind, and those guys (some of them) seem to be somewhat vintage knowledgeable. I had them reface the BB on my Raleigh and they were ooohing and aahhing over it, did a good job, and were reasonable.

I have been to Lickton's a few times (but its been awhile), and once took my frame in where they put it on the frame table, checked alignment, and aligned the derailleur hanger... all for no charge. Those guys rock, at least they did then (probably in the '90s).

I do feel for the LBS' that have to play the big manufacturer's game... that has to be tough to make a go of it.

I am so lucky with my LBS.

he is very high end oriented.

he sells his own frames
he will built a bike exactly the way you want- carbon,alu,lugs.
he has a very nice NOS backroom-currently I am fixing up a forumite with nos shimano 105 stuff.
his shop sponsors a team with his company name.
not totally uncommon to see a C&V bike in there.
I saw a nishiki in for service with full shimano arabesque
in the loft are NOS tubular rims,2 tandem frames,several ALAN alu lugged frames among other stuff.

this morning I brought in my grail build PUCH to install the campy TI bottom bracket and headset.
I was allowed full access to his workshop so I can use the correct tools-he checked that everything was proper before I left.
I purchased 4 stainless cables for my build also-cost 6 each.

total cost for all goods and service- 24.

when the bike is rideable the first trip is to his shop, and then the painter who sprayed it.

I wish the same for all of us to have such a shop 2 miles away.
mike

My lbs (well it was local, I just moved to a new town, so it's not local anymore) was really pretty nice. All the folks in there were friendly enough, but all probably in their 20's or early 30's and seemed to be fixie riders (not that there's anything wrong with that). Mainly they seemed to do most of their business working on ss/fg bikes and getting old bikes running that people (mainly college kids or similar aged people) had gotten handed down to them. The odd thing was (given that they were fixing up older bikes), was that when I went in asking them about getting older parts (things like deraileur claws for decent quality bikes that didn't come with them - no I don't just want a modern tourney RD that comes with one), they really didn't know what I was talking about. Friendly enough, and they got to me right away when I came in early one saturday morning wanting a fork crown race and bb fixed cup pulled and they have just about any oddly sized tube imaginable, but for parts I was much better off online.

i called 3 bike shops before i found one that even knew what cotter pins were... most of the responses i got where, "what are those?"

What's your point? Do you really expect most bike shops to stock or give a care about cotter pins? I don't.

I haven't ran into any snootiness at one LBS, very nice head mechanic and sales staff, but it was all modern stock. I walked in to have a Maillard freewheel removed from an old 82 cruiser wheel. I wanted to save the vintage high flange hub and UKAI rim.
The young guy couldn't figure out the freewheel as he was expecting it to remove like a cassette. He then tried to fit a Shimano Octalink BBB remover into the freewheel! I interrupted him by saying "That isn't going to work!" The head mechanic came over after hearing me and verified that they aren't equipped to handle such older parts. Gave me a few places to try as recommendations. He was about my age and could still relate to brands like UKAI, Sakae Ringyo, Maillard.
Last time I visited them for a Shimano recall issue, they downsized and shut their BMX store and inventory was greatly reduced, not doing too well.

I've had good friendly service at two shops in the metro area.....Junction Cycles in Apache Junction had the old french remover tool to handle my Maillard freewheel. And I found a nice old style display stand (that only fits older crank arms, not CF cranks), and new road saddle in his parts bin for $5 ea. Shop seems to be doing well.

The other is a little shop in Guadalupe, run by a husband and wife team. Very friendly, low prices, old bike shop atmosphere. I found the place during their annual bike swap meet. I've found great deals in their parts bins for $3-5 a piece, sometimes that old C&V hub or derailleur.
I try to stop in whenever I'm driving by to check out what's new in the bins.
As I do all of my wrenching, I rarely require the services of a LBS. But will buy consumables from them whenever I can instead of Walmart, etc.

Actually, yes I do. It's a standard part used on millions of bikes still on the road in the USA. My LBS does stock crank cotters and if they didn't I'd lose a LOT of respect for them. It's not like they take up a lot of room. Any shop that refused to stock them, or worse yet didn't even KNOW what they were, isn't a bike shop -it's a boutique.

If the LBS expects us to buy the line of "Support your LBS" then they had better be willing/able to work on your bike -even if it is 20+ years old. If they can't then why bother? If I have to wait for days while they order a simple stock part like this I might as well buy from the internet.

Can you imagine taking your car to a mechanic and having them tell you that they only work on cars that are less than 8 years old? The average bike on the road is much older than the average car. If these bike shops are not willing to service all bikes why should people bother going to them. At least auto mechanics can buy stuff for same-day delivery (usually within an hour or so) from parts suppliers .

Bikes are not disposable (at least real ones) and an LBS should be able to work on decent non-disposable bikes that were not built in the last few years and using less than cutting-edge technology. Next the LBS will refuse to work on threaded headsets because such old bikes aren't worth working on...

No way this is true.

Your points are all over the place, Amesja. My LBS stocks cotter pins because they work on and deal with vintage bikes (that's their niche). But, cotter pins are an antiquated method not used on decent bicycles for a half century. I do not expect the carbon fiber bike dealers to deal with them and I don't judge them if they aren't familiar with cotter pin removal or installation. It's not as black and white as you make it out to be. I don't expect an Applebee's to sell me a Peking duck just because it's a restaurant.

My LBS stocks them and gets about three requests a year.

Yes, not rocket science, even I can do it. Shop overhead makes that a tough situation to overcome. They may try, but then fail because of business exigencies (can't afford to take the time). My re-entry into cycling, the shop just plain pissed me off repeatedly, and that's how I got started with DIY.

Remember you C&V'ers are an aberration, a small minority in the bike market. The LBS is not counting on your dollars to make a go of it. The extent they can help you at all depends on how long they've been in business and their love of old bikes. It seems like the LBS's I know make money selling comfort bikes & accessories to newbie's,or expensive road bikes to people who are into riding, not wrenching. I'm sure at least a few of us have had disinterested, sometimes even snotty attitudes from these kind of shops. The big box Performance or Trek store, they sell everything to everybody- as long as it's new.

Fortunately I have a bunch of shops nearby, when I need and oddball part or I'm in over my head. Sometimes I get a deal, sometimes I pay dearly, and sometimes I think, I'm never going in that jerk's shop again!