I also thought the $2000ish estimates were insanely low. I figured $3,500 and it wouldn't surprise me if it hit the $4,000s. Every kid wanted a Schwinn Paramount - and this one is NOS. Just because something is rare doesn't mean it's automatically worth more money. I'm no expert, but I don't think a Norman Rapide would sell for $1,000 easily and I'd consider it in a different class entirely.

Is this worth $3,500 to me? No - but I'm pretty sure there are people out there that would value it that way - it's an iconic bike with a huge following. I'm also pretty dang sure that would sell for a lot more than my Sachs bikes - by double.

nm:

I want to know more about the triplet! I'm aware of 4 others, besides my own, and always like learning more about them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by miamijim

No offense but you will never understand.

Jim, no offense taken. It's obvious that I don't get high end bicycles. My 1949 Hercules Kestrel (Reynolds 531), 1950 Norman Rapide (Reynolds 531 DB), 1984 Davidson Tandem and 2010 Bilenky 650B Constructeur Tandem are indicative of that fact.

well played. I saw a Bilenky tandem in the wild last week - with a Rolhoff - and thought about you. With jealousy.

You know high end bikes, you're just not a Paramount guy. There's nothing wrong with that, but there are Paramount guys who will pay major bucks for that bike. I'm not one either, but I think that's a $3,000 bike easily.

Bike prices and markets don't always reflect quality...they reflect what people want, and that's not always rational. You can (or could before the Confente revelations) buy a Grandis for a lot less than a Colnago...and I'd MUCH rather have the Grandis. It's branding, marketing...nostalgia. While I'm sure your Rapide is an excellent bike, and the equal or superior of a Paramount, the market likes Paramounts.

Don't hate the player

Aaron, there's no sense in being jealous of my Bilenky. You've got some incredibly nice machines and one crappy 3-speed.

Just because I don't get Paramount bicycles hasn't stopped me from bidding. My high bid is still holding, but the guy has an incredibly high reserve price. Go figure.

Right now that crappy three speed is a great bike for me...the stand over is what I need and my right leg is still weak, so the shifting while stopped is very helpful. I would prefer lower gearing. It's a cute, fun bike - and I can use it as a short range beater when healthy. Actually, I'm really glad I bought it!

You just need to recognize its limitation and use it for what it is. I think it's therapeutic suggest in your case is especially interesting.

That reminds me of a sign that was outside a "gentleman's" club when I was a kid. It read "13 beautiful woman and 1 ugly one."

What was it, last year, that a '73 Raleigh RRA (like mine, only with the crappy original French stuff on it), went for $3500? I wouldn't be surprised to see this one go for $5K if the right buyer is out there. I think the RRA buyer was a Japanese collector...

I agree. I've seen Paramounts in lessor condition, I haven't seen any in nos condition so the only ones I did see were all in lessor condition, sell for over $3,000 and a few went for $5,000 and more. I don't know with today's economy if a Paramount could sell for $5,000 or more though, those prices I saw were about 6 or 7 years ago, I haven't really kept track of Paramount prices since then.

But the same time prices started to drop on classic cars, vintage bikes also started to sell for less, but I'm seeing a reversing of that with Vintage bikes, especially low to mid level bikes. Most of those prices I see going up on low to mid are yahoos trying to scam people into thinking that a Raleigh Record is a TDF racing bike! I saw one of these Records in Detroit Craigslist that was in fair condition, the seller actually said that the bike was used and raced by a pro rider in the TDF back in the 70's and was a rare TDF racing bike; then went on to say the bike was appraised for $2,500 but he needed it gone and would sacrifice it for $1,500!!!

The market right now is quite confounding. There as been a trend for sellers to attempt to insure that their desired price is attained, through either a reserve or a stiff initial bid level. I guess the concept is that there may not be the depth of the market out there, but perhaps ONE individual is willing to plunge. For an auction to really escalate there need to be two willing and interested enough to bid to Win. In my view often the stiff initial bids dampen down excitement and perceived demand, one is always reassured that there are others who are also of a like mind and think the value is there. Few want to buy at the peak of the market.

I recently won an auction on ebay with a stiff initial bid, one other bidder made the initial plunge, I came in with seconds left. If I lost, so be it. I prevailed. Getting the bike in hand was a bit of a bother, happily the bike was well packaged, arrived safe and a number of details not mentioned in the auction only make the deal a better one, one example was Super Record pedals, they were not mentioned in the auction description. Would the bike have gone for more had the seller started with a lower price? I don't know. I think the chances would have been good that if more bidders participated and asked enough questions an update to the description would have increased the willingness to spend. Maybe that happened here and the seller decided to enhance the description to help the odds that they will get what they want.

But this is a mistake. You never bid a initial bid, because someone else will see that bid then bid higher to cover your bid plus more in case you come back and rebid, and they will do this late in the game. The only bid you ever make is the max your willing to spend and at the last 10 seconds of the bidding. If you had waited the other guy that tried to beat you would have perhaps bidded less, you could have won anyways but paid less.

Also bid odd amounts; for example, the bid is $1500, you're willing to pay up to $2,000, so you bid $2,011; most people bid even amounts, so someone else may have done $2,010 thinking their over someone else doing a $2,000 even bid. But if someone bids a stiff initial bid of say $1500, like what you did, others see that bid and wait till the last few seconds to place a bid and they may place a bid just over your amount, and if you don't have the time to counter bid your screwed. Also by bidding with only a few seconds late you also don't get trapped in a bidding frenzy that most get trapped into doing and end up paying more then they wanted and probably more then the item is worth.

You probably ended up paying more then you could have paid if you had ignored the initial stiff bid and instead used that bid at the last 10 seconds.

I hope this made sense?

If you bid early on an auction you are only going to encourage other bidders to top your price. I almost always wait until the final 5 seconds and then bid my maximum. Why encourage competition?

This is the way I play it, too.

In a normal auction that makes perfect sense, but in this case you want active bidding early on to ferret out the reserve. If you don't get an active bidding war, you won't figure out the reserve and snipes may not get enough bids in quickly enough at the tail end of the auction. I, for one, want to know this guy's reserve is and despite my efforts to do so, we're still not there, though someone finally just outbid me. Still, we don't know the effin' reserve this guy put on the auction.

There is no "right" way to bid on an eBay auction, there are different methods to get to where you want to be none of them will work all the time.

Same with sellers


It has a more to do with timing and dumb luck than any of us care to admit.

+1 - this topic has been covered to death. Bid how you want, I'll bid how I want. Sometimes I feel like I'm at the black jack table with some guy getting angry that someone took "his" card.

It is funny how people get with their eBay methodology. You are right about the blackjack analogy. It's a game of sorts and there are different ways to win, all of which are valid. BTW, my last bid took it to $2575. Still haven't hit reserve. I'm beginning to lose interest because it appears this guy thinks he has a Herse or a Singer.

No it does not. The winning price was just 4% over the minimum bid made by someone else, I only came in with 5 seconds to go. I was willing to go 115% of the initial bid, but there was no interest and no time left to counter. The high initial bid I think dampened interest as no one else participated.
There was another recent win where the I was the only bid but I did not enter till 6 seconds to go, it may have been relisted, maybe not. The price was below what I thought where the market should have been but the initial high request undoubtedly had an effect. If Anyone else would have participated in that auction they would have won no doubt.

Well, you have one of those... I do agree that the seller's behavior has put interest at risk.
This auction sort of reminds me of a few other NOS bikes that have come to ebay, a Raleigh Professional that went for a handsome sum, (with Box) and the NOS Masi Gran Criteriums that John Barron found and offered, those were very cool, too bad they were too big for me.

I'm with you here, and very glad you said it.

At times some here on this thread get a bit much with telling everyone, how to bid, or how much something is worth.
It is tiresome. Everyone has their own ideas of how to bid, and how much something is worth.
Nobody can KNOW that his way is the best way to win. Just like telling somebody how much something is worth.
It's worth what someone will pay. Nothing more and nothing less.

Because some do it one way, doesn't make it the only way, nor the best!

well it seems as if the reserve has been hit! 2:35 CT

3,000

Currently at $3000 with 9 days left. Going to watch this for grins and giggles.

I'll bet there aren't many NOS Paramount bikes.