I was chatting with the operator of the local bike collective about saddles and he brought up this Cardiff brand I had never heard of. Obviously cheaper than Brooks, particularly if you want one with copper rivets and rails. The build looks pretty good but unlike my Brooks, there is a fiber mesh under the leather. He has one on his touring bike that seemed to have softened pretty well, but the new one he had in the shop was much harder than an out of the box b-17.

Anyone have any experience with these?

Very interesting. Never heard of them either. Looks like a B-17 clone. Any idea where they're made?

Made in Taiwan by Gyes.

I have a Gyes GS-17A. As mentioned before the Cardiff and Velo Orange saddles are made by Gyes. Great saddle, very comfortable. Broke in after around 200 miles. The finish is not quite as nice as a Brooks and it definitely needed proof hiding. I've put around 1000 miles on it and there's no sagging. I get a lot of compliments on it and I like the lacing. I would buy again.

Here's a picture from when I first got it, the coloring is quite different now.

I had one of the VO branded saddles and ended up selling it because it was uncomfortable. I will not buy another one, though I will continue to ride Brooks saddles.

Recently I snagged a couple Ideale saddles and the verdict is still out on whether they are a proper fit for me, though my initial impression is positive.

had one, hated it, never broke in well. i stick with Brooks or Gilles Berthoud.

I'm on mile 500 with my cardiff, barely barely broken in so far... Have a b17 special and b72 on my other two bikes- the quality just isn't the same...

I did get it on ebay completely brand new for $40 with the copper rivets (the copper rivets on the seat "wore off" to bare metal on the first ride), hoping it will settle in as it looks beautiful...the underside is not very attractive IMO...

Thanks for the input. Life may be too short to experiment with one of these. If I get one, I would probably get one similar to Roborrito's swallow clone.

The copper color rubbed off of the rivets?

I've got a VO model 8 (or whatever the wide sprung cruiser saddle is). Comfortable out of the bag (came in a plastic bag, not a box) and looks fairly pretty. I'd buy another one.

The Swallow clone is the GS-06. I think mine is a copy of the B17 with laced and trimmed skirts.

I've got a VO Model 8 -- very comfortable. I've also got a Cardiff Cornwall that I can't get to break in. Hard as a rock. I have a feeling that if it ever starts to conform to my butt, it'll be fine. But I'm not sure I have the patience (or the ability to tolerate pain) to ride it until that happens.

Yes which concerned me as I thought it wasn't just a color and an actual material

They went from a nice copper to normal silver in one ride. Bummed me out as I love that look...The rails have stayed copper...

I have a Cardiff Cornwall on my touring bike - and it's been very comfortable. That particular bike only gets ridden when I'm going on longish rides or tours, so it doesn't accumulate the miles that my other ones do - maybe 2500 or so on it now. The saddle is fine, and the darkening appearance is good. The leather is not as thick as an older Brooks, or an older Fujita (I have two of those), and I've had to lace the full skirt to help it keep its firm shape.

It's been posted in an earlier thread, that the spot welds that connect the back tip of the rails to the underside of the saddle support frame...well, the welds break free. Usually on the right rail, from the two who posted and described theirs. I reattached mine with JB Weld - looks pretty amateurish, but it works fine. Don't lift the bike by the Cornwall saddle frame, though, as this joint is manufactured poorly.

Overall, I'd rate this saddle as satisfactory. Not great, but it looks good and it supports me well (I only weigh 172 lbs and ride "lightly"). The fit works fine for me, and when I climb on the touring bike for a long ride (after having been off of it for a month or so), I invariably think that "this bike is comfy. I wonder why I don't ride it every day." So the saddle contributes in part to this. PG