Virtues of the Cottered Crank...
10-30-12 | 06:14 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,565
Likes: 2,739
From: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma
Virtues of the Cottered Crank...
Though I can certainly appreciate a high end racing or touring bicycle, I find some of the Vintage Velo world's offerings pretty interesting and even fun to ride. With that in mind, I have learned to appreciate the mechanical and cosmetic virtues or vices of the cottered crank set. I find them to work just fine, when properly installed, and they can be a visual treat, in my opinion...
__________________
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
10-30-12 | 06:32 PM
#2
Wood
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,293
Likes: 13
From: Beaumont, Tx
Bikes: Raleigh Sports: hers. Vianelli Professional & Bridgestone 300: mine
I agree. A cottered crank can just about always be completely reconditioned with the replacement of two simple cotters.
Are there any current production bikes with cottered cranks?
Are there any current production bikes with cottered cranks?
10-30-12 | 06:34 PM
#3
Hopelessly addicted...
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,955
Likes: 13
From: Central Maryland
Bikes: 1949 Hercules Kestrel, 1950 Norman Rapide, 1970 Schwinn Collegiate, 1972 Peugeot UE-8, 1976 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Jack Taylor Tandem, 1984 Davidson Tandem, 2010 Bilenky "BQ" 650B Constructeur Tandem, 2011 Linus Mixte
I'm with you Randy. Some of the nicest looking cranks are those with cotters to my eye. Some of the really nice ones, such as those on my Norman, are quite light besides.
10-30-12 | 06:54 PM
#5
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
From: Armenia, Colombia
Bikes: 1961 Raleigh Sports
10-30-12 | 07:20 PM
#7
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,994
Likes: 10,496
From: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: old ones
I like them quite a bit, the main difficulty until recently has been the dearth
of sources for decent cotters. But what's his name has now filled that need
pretty nicely, if you're willing to go through the mail.
https://bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/cotters.html
Sadly, they go in and out of stock. Does anyone else have
a favorite source they are willing to share ??
of sources for decent cotters. But what's his name has now filled that need
pretty nicely, if you're willing to go through the mail.
https://bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/cotters.html
Sadly, they go in and out of stock. Does anyone else have
a favorite source they are willing to share ??
10-30-12 | 07:43 PM
#8
self propelled lifer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 557
Likes: 12
From: Manitoba
Bikes: 1962 Dawes Galaxy; 72 Gitane Interclub;73 Peugeot PR10;78 Torpado Luxe;73 Grandis; 81 Raleigh/Carlton Comp; 85 Bianchi Stelvio; 87 Bianchi Brava; 73 Bottechia Special; 1969 or70 Bob Jackson
Though I can certainly appreciate a high end racing or touring bicycle, I find some of the Vintage Velo world's offerings pretty interesting and even fun to ride. With that in mind, I have learned to appreciate the mechanical and cosmetic virtues or vices of the cottered crank set. I find them to work just fine, when properly installed, and they can be a visual treat, in my opinion...
10-30-12 | 07:57 PM
#9
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,229
Likes: 734
From: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: '64 Bianchi CDM, '62ish Altenburger Cinelli Mod B, '63-64 Cinelli SC, 69 Rene Herse Competition, '71 Gitane SC, '73 Cinelli SC, '73-74 Colnago Super,, '73-74 Cinelli SC, '78ish counterfeit Confente, '82 Medici Gran Turismo, '67ish Mondia Speciale
10-30-12 | 08:39 PM
#11
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,470
Likes: 4
From: Minneapolis
Bikes: -1973 Motobecane Mirage -197? Velosolex L'Etoile -'71 Raleigh Super Course
They are very elegant; it's the slender crankarms that really sell it, IMO.
Query: what year was the last TDF won on cottered cranks? I've asked this before, but never did get an answer. I'd love to find out; I'm willing to bet it was with those hollow-arm DuPrats as well.
Query: what year was the last TDF won on cottered cranks? I've asked this before, but never did get an answer. I'd love to find out; I'm willing to bet it was with those hollow-arm DuPrats as well.
10-30-12 | 08:45 PM
#12
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 924
Likes: 64
From: Arizona
Bikes: 2015 Specialized AWOL, 2006 Paul Frank Cruiser, 1987 Specialized Street Stomper, 1980 Trek 412, 1979 Raleigh Sport,
I like cottered cranks, I really like seeing fixed gears with cottered cranks for whatever reason.
10-31-12 | 03:06 AM
#13
Membership Not Required
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 16,853
Likes: 18
From: On the road-USA
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Get your magnifying glass out!
(I will post larger pictures as soon as I can)
Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
10-31-12 | 05:36 AM
#14
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
From: Armenia, Colombia
Bikes: 1961 Raleigh Sports
As far as I understand, cotters come in different sizes, 9.5mm is the usual English size, and French cotters come in 9mm. So on the main, a French crank is drilled to take French cotters, and an English crank takes English cotters. Is this the case?
My question is, are the spindles are all the same, English, French, Italian? Can I take a french crank with a french cotter, and mount it on an English spindle?
I see in this thread some very handsome cranks, like that 5 pin Durax. As far as I know, Durax is a French crank supposedly taking French cotters, can I mount it on say my Raleigh?
My question is, are the spindles are all the same, English, French, Italian? Can I take a french crank with a french cotter, and mount it on an English spindle?
I see in this thread some very handsome cranks, like that 5 pin Durax. As far as I know, Durax is a French crank supposedly taking French cotters, can I mount it on say my Raleigh?
Last edited by jrecoi; 10-31-12 at 05:40 AM.
10-31-12 | 05:48 AM
#15
Vello Kombi, baby
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,188
Likes: 16
From: Je suis ici
Bikes: 1973 Eisentraut; 1970s Richard Sachs; 1978 Alfio Bonnano; 1967 Peugeot PX10
They are very elegant; it's the slender crankarms that really sell it, IMO.
Query: what year was the last TDF won on cottered cranks? I've asked this before, but never did get an answer. I'd love to find out; I'm willing to bet it was with those hollow-arm DuPrats as well.
Query: what year was the last TDF won on cottered cranks? I've asked this before, but never did get an answer. I'd love to find out; I'm willing to bet it was with those hollow-arm DuPrats as well.
__________________
"It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"
Waste your money! Buy my comic book!
"It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"
Waste your money! Buy my comic book!
10-31-12 | 07:27 AM
#17
Senior Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 10,106
Likes: 2,757
From: Fredericksburg, Va
Bikes: ? Proteous, '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, 'Litespeed Catalyst'94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster
"Steel is Real"ly nice for slender and custom cranks and ring gears. Interface with spindles have come a long way since and are much better today.
10-31-12 | 08:21 AM
#18
1991 PBP Anciens
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,070
Likes: 1,200
From: Elburn, Illannoy
Bikes: 1964 Dunelt, 196? Dunelt Flyer, 1968 Raleigh Superbe, 1969 Robin Hood, 197? Gitane, 1970 Gitane Mexico, 1973 Raleigh SuperCourse, 1970 Raleigh Sports, 1970 Huffy Sportsman, 1981 Miyata 710, 1990 Miyata 600GT, 1999 Trek 830AL, 2007 Rivendell Bleriot,
After seeing the cranks Neil posted, I'm not the only one with this setup.
10-31-12 | 09:04 AM
#19
十人十色
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 27
From: Tokyo, Japan
As far as I understand, cotters come in different sizes, 9.5mm is the usual English size, and French cotters come in 9mm. So on the main, a French crank is drilled to take French cotters, and an English crank takes English cotters. Is this the case?
My question is, are the spindles are all the same, English, French, Italian? Can I take a french crank with a french cotter, and mount it on an English spindle?
I see in this thread some very handsome cranks, like that 5 pin Durax. As far as I know, Durax is a French crank supposedly taking French cotters, can I mount it on say my Raleigh?
My question is, are the spindles are all the same, English, French, Italian? Can I take a french crank with a french cotter, and mount it on an English spindle?
I see in this thread some very handsome cranks, like that 5 pin Durax. As far as I know, Durax is a French crank supposedly taking French cotters, can I mount it on say my Raleigh?
My 'fear' with cottered cranks is the difficulty in getting the pins out. I use a small vise (vice?) and a socket but with one pin I had to use an extension bar on the vice arm and it bent...
[IMG]
IMG_6167 by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]
10-31-12 | 09:48 AM
#21
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
From: Armenia, Colombia
Bikes: 1961 Raleigh Sports
How much clearance does the chainring give you compared to the original Raleigh cranks? I want to do something similar with my Raleigh Sports, in order to have replaceable chainrings but keep the cottered crank clearances that thus far have worked well with the chaincase.
10-31-12 | 12:06 PM
#22
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,212
Likes: 3,122
For me, the major appeal of cottered cranks is the diversity and originality of chainring designs, which has more to do with the era than the crankest style itself. Over time this diversity slowly disappeared so that by the time the boom had rolled around even the cottered designs were all beginning to look mundane.
10-31-12 | 12:34 PM
#23
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,994
Likes: 10,496
From: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: old ones
As far as I understand, cotters come in different sizes, 9.5mm is the usual English size, and French cotters come in 9mm. So on the main, a French crank is drilled to take French cotters, and an English crank takes English cotters. Is this the case?
My question is, are the spindles are all the same, English, French, Italian? Can I take a french crank with a french cotter, and mount it on an English spindle?
I see in this thread some very handsome cranks, like that 5 pin Durax. As far as I know, Durax is a French crank supposedly taking French cotters, can I mount it on say my Raleigh?
My question is, are the spindles are all the same, English, French, Italian? Can I take a french crank with a french cotter, and mount it on an English spindle?
I see in this thread some very handsome cranks, like that 5 pin Durax. As far as I know, Durax is a French crank supposedly taking French cotters, can I mount it on say my Raleigh?
that list this information in a handy format, which i cannot find to cut and paste right now.
ISO, French, Italian are all nominally 16mm in diameter, 15.9mm actual
English is smaller.....5/8 " diameter, 15.8mm actual
Sometimes you might be able to get away with a swap like this if you use
the correct crank to go with the same spindle.
By far the most vexing thing in swapping these is the various incompatibilities
between cups and spindles, and the different (and seemingly endless) positioning
of the cone shoulders and the flats, as well as the lengths and offsets.
If you can find a copy of Sutherland's to look at (4th, 5th editions) online or
at a bike shop, it explains a lot of this very nicely.
Or you can just measure and experiment. It's unlikely the swap you have in
mind will work, though anything is possible. You'd have to use your Raleigh
cups if they are Raleigh threaded, and the chances of the French spindle and
crank to fit it going in there properly are pretty slender.
10-31-12 | 12:45 PM
#24
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 624
Likes: 1
From: Las Vegas, NV
Bikes: 1949 'Italian' , 1950 San Giusto, 1897 Union, and a number of "projects"... 198? Grandis, a couple of Mixte's...
Speaking of cottered cranks.....anyone have a 3 arm alloy Campy crankset they wanna unload ???? Hit me with a PM, if it's reasonable....no need for mint condition ! (early cotterless) Or a nice condition Magistroni cottered ??
Cheers,
Joe
Cheers,
Joe
Last edited by JPZ66; 10-31-12 at 03:35 PM.