JAG, I'll try to answer like Surly (apparently) would:

Why do you care if it's good, bad, or anything else for that matter? It's not our problem, and come to think of it, it's a pretty stupid question on your part. Off.

My thoughts on Surly is that they do an awesome job at marketing a mediocre product.

nothing they put in there has anything to do with their customer service. I bet if you called them and asked a question about a surly that isn't answered on the website, they would be as helpful as any bike company. There are questions that people ask that will just wear you down and eventually start to annoy you. When i worked in retail so many people called in asking our hours that i just started saying it when i picked up the phone. It's like, they looked up our number on the internet, but couldn't find our hours listed on the yelp page they are looking at? jesus christ!

So many people came in asking for change it would really start grating on your nerves, especially so when you're helping an actual customer. You want to say "do i look like a ****in bank to you?"

and people who think customer service is being able to return anything in any condition are insane. That flies at REI where they can afford to do that, but no where else should you expect that.

"If you call us while you’re stuffing your face with a bag of chips you will get hung up on."

this and people coming to get rung up for their shirts or whatever while talking on the cellphone drove me nuts! People need to have some common courtesy.

I've never quite gotten the Surly idea, and probably won't.
I don't think I'm their target market. I'm not even sure their take-off parts are something I need.

I commuted on a Cross Check for a year and I could easily recommend that bicycle over the Trek 720 I sold yesterday.

I called the Trek the flexi flyer, so in this regard the Surly carried work gear better than that bicycle.

In addition, our neighbor across the alley has a Surly Pugsley that is fun to play with in the snow.

I don't want to buy one, but they are fun for cheap thrills in fresh powder.

All in all, a Surly has its place, as long as a rider doesn't expect too much.

So rather than deal with [fake] snotty, but extant, customer service, you ride a vintage frame so you don't have any customer service at all?

With vintage frames, WE ARE our own customer service. It's sort of implied with the package.

I've never understood how anyone can find 'anti-humor' interesting. It takes anything genuinely funny about humor and inverts it into a tediously masochistic theoretical exercise.

Kid! Have you rehabilitated yourself?

Ah, thats the way refined men relax, a $30 cigar and a glass of Highland Park 25 year single malt scotch......

And don't forget the 30 year old Tawny. Just to wash it all down that much more smoothly.

I am threatened by what I choose not to understand. That's why I only ride old bikes.

Nothing wrong with Surly in my eyes, it's a fairly nondescript brand of cheap, functional frames/bikes, which are exactly the attributes that attract many buyers to C&V frames. Making the brand up to be a marketing gimmick would be as foolish as whining about a post on their blog some 20 year old intern probably wrote. Their bikes have all the features their target demographic wants at the price they demand, so all the power to them.

On a somewhat related note, I toured QBP recently and was impressed by how much work they do in house on their imported bikes. When I was there I saw a batch of FS Salsas being assembled and was surprised to see every frame being hand-tuned. Their wheel building department was also impressive. I would really like to see their take on a performance-oriented steel bike, but that isn't likely considering the fredly nature of their brands.

Hmmm

I am not a big Surly promotor; however, I do believe they were the first to deliver the following to the general public:

1) Fat Bikes
2) Bike-specific frame built around the Xtra-Cycle utility platform
3) A cross-bike better designed for commuting
4) A fixed gear bike that is actually designed to run on the street
5) A large-payload utility trailer
6) A steel touring bike for the masses
7) A steel expedition bike for the masses

You may be weary of their ownership, marketing, target demographic, etc, but they have been a hell of a lot more creative in the odd-ball markets than Trek, Specialized, Giant, Raleigh, modern Cannondale, etc.

Further. their bikes, though not perfect, tend to be designed for the maximum flexibility, with generous clearences and lots of mounting points for different things. They may be a bit on the heavy side, but Reynolds 531C ain't good for everything. Now take the last two sentences and see how much similarity there is between Surly and Rivendell. Same god, different prophet, IMHO.

None of this changes the fact that I don't WANT to open my mind to something different. I still say they are as scary and weird as those young kids and their loud music. BTW, is Missionary Style the only approved C&V position?

^ As long as there's a DeRosa in the room.

All it takes is one night in rehabilitation.

I do believe you are wrong in most if not all the categories you've listed.

Surly's got what hipsters crave.

Surly framesets are a little better, for the most part, than they were in the past, so that's good; on the downside, their complete-bike offerings, for the most part, have been downgraded despite the fact that the MSRP continues to rise.

The LHT and Cross Check framesets are very solid products for a reasonable price. The niche framesets such as the Ogre have a growing number of devotees, and the fat bike category seems to be seeing at least a temporary explosion of popularity.

Surly customer service can be a little weird....actually maybe even A LOT weird at times. Their warranty dept is also a little different, but in the end, they come through and stand behind their products, at least in our shop's experience.

If I have a major complaint it's that they've downgraded complete bikes like the LHT with cheaper parts than it had and yet the price is higher than ever for a new model. On the other hand, for a welded frame, the current LHT frameset has become quite nice aesthetically, and is even a tiny bit better functionally than before (and that's saying something). And even though they're "surly," the Surly folks are progressive enough in their thinking to offer, for example, a disc brake-equipped LHT now. Along with a full lineup of cantilever-equipped LHTs, like before.

The marketing drivel that Surly puts on their site, their blogs, etc. seems to be just that at first glance; but then again I've met the guys who run the brand, and honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if it's genuinely what they're thinking. My opinion: just look at the bikes/frames and judge Surly on that....Surly's not for everybody, but they do have some rather cool stuff going on at reasonable prices.

Bottom line: I'm glad Surly's there.

With QBP having these in the lineup, a "fast" Surly isn't in need. However their Pacer is no slouch.

https://salsacycles.com/bikes/colossal
https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/mr_pink

Hahahahaha nicely done!

Part of my job involves handling my company website. Along with that, I am usually the first to see and hear from customers and I can say that a lot of that Surly post is right on the money. It's not what you should say to a customer, but it does deal with the feelings you may wish you could express to them. You'd be surprised (or maybe not) and the ridiculousness that people try to pass to you, or try to scam you with.

Reading the Surly customer service warning reminded me as nothing more than a joke. Some people may get it, some may not. For the person who stumbles across the internet to find that page somehow and decides to not be a customer, you'll just as easily find another who thought it was funny or just didn't take it seriously and will purchase their products anyways.

If you would like to counter, I am willing to listen, but I cannot think of any other examples of relatively easy-to-get, relatively inexpensive examples that preceeded Surly's offerings.