I suspect you may not really be Porter Wagoner, either.

Talk about disappointing.

I'm not. Pretty sure he did eff my grandmother, though, so that's something.

Oh, contraire, I just bought a Cross Check frame and have built it up as an allarounder SS with separate sets of wheels with road and CX tires. It's going to be my SS gravel grinder. IMO, a very solid and well built bike and I don't care that it doesn't have lugs. It's also much stiffer than my C&V steel bikes.

What an oddly angry and ill-informed thread.

Well put, though at first I thought I read "local dump" instead of "Doral lump".

Funny thing is, I've never bothered to even visit the Surly web site that I can recall, which either speaks to my initial impressions of the product or perhaps the site...

A friend visited several times while doing a Surly build, a sort of touring bike with some kind of swept-back flat bar.
I remember the frame was pretty industrial with it's tig'd OS tubing, and not light. The bike he built, with metal fenders and a sturdy pair of my handbuilt wheels, looks pretty nice though. He went through a round of parts swaps and really ended up with exactly what he wanted.

Probably an LHT "Long Haul Trucker". They aren't super light, but not all that heavy either. Logic seems to intervene at some point with touring bikes. You can't have super light, yet haul a rider and 100+ pounds of gear. You can buy the LHT as a complete bike, or as a bare frame. I would choose bare myself, and make it just a little higher spec than what the complete bike comes with. It's not bad at all as a complete, but I would change a thing or two here and there.,,,,BD

Point taken, RFC. I'm not angry, but am ill-informed. I am put off by that ridiculous Surly "sales" pitch, however. Un funny, offensive and stupid, IMO.

I would agree with this. How they decide to market their products is up to them. I would also agree that most on this forum are not their target market.

It's a niche bike co that sells their bikes the way they want to. BTW; Some of their blogs are quite funny. This one, IMO, not so much.

The LHT seems to have a cult-like following.

But for $50 you can find an old hybrid frame like the Trek Singletrack with similar geometry, Canti brakes, made for 622mm wheels with lots of clearance, tough as nails with enough carrying capacity to do loaded touring.

The LHT is just a way of buying new and reinventing the wheel for what you can get off of CL used for what a nice dinner for 2 costs. But the bike world takes all types...

I think it has something to do with SpongeBob.

+1 LOL! Yes, it's a plot to promote [pick the group you hate].

Give it a rest, please.

I realize that this odd thread was started by an OP who was put off by the Surly blog. I kind of like the edgy tone, but can understand how some might not.

However, the quote above sums it up.

I am still often surprised by the myopia on this forum. Check out the commuter, cyclocross, distance, and mtb forums here and elsewhere. Surly bikes are for dedicated riders who are not Road Nazi's (another group disliked on this forum because of their "attitudes," "funny clothing," and the style of bikes they ride). For example, the Surly Cross Check is a mainstay in gravel grinding events and citizen level CX races. I find it interesting that whenever a small, private frame builder introduces a new and pricey steel gravel grinder bike, it is, at some point, inevitably compared to the Cross Check. Surly bikes are for riders, not polishers. In fact, they often go uncleaned after a ride.

The "hipster" thing around here also bothers me. If by "hipster" you mean college aged young people who ride to commute and have fun, and are not Road Nazi's, I know quite a few through my sons. A delightful few have spent time in my Mancave rebuilding bikes, and talking about bikes, parts and riding. This is one of the reasons I keep a parts stash. It's just too much fun to have them around. Oh, and they are engineering, art, biochem, etc., majors often working themselves through school. And the outlaw Alley Cat races sound like a great way to spend a summer evening. BTW, I am willing to wager that they ride more miles each year than the majority of the polishers on this forum, although they don't detail their bikes after a ride. In other words, the "Hipsters" have done more to promote bike culture than can be attributed to the members of this forum.

But, a rant should not start another rant, and I have ranted too much.

Why did I buy a Cross Check? First, because my 2006 Volpe, also SS, is on permanent loan to a good friend who is recovering from back surgery and has turned into a dedicated rider WORKING OUT five days a week and loving it. Second, I have always wanted to try a Surly and the Cross Check has what I was looking for -- long horizontal dropouts, wide stays and fork for fat tires and tons of brazeons and versatility. Also, I kind of like the attitude.

Finally, at the risk of C&V excommunication (then I'll just become a hipster and/or a Road Nazi -- I like the people I know in both groups and they are all riders), my modern bikes in general and my modern steel bikes in particular, are better riders than any of my C&V steel bikes with the possible exception of my Land Sharks. Stiffer frames and threadless headsets have a lot to do with that.

C&V is just one more collectors' hobby group, very similar to those who collect old cars, motorcycles, audio components, vacuum cleaners and antique China. Pretty light stuff and not comparable to Global Warming, pervasive hunger, and racism. We should realize that and keep it at that level.

Sorry, I'm done.

I agree. As I said, I'm done.

LOL!!! There has always been a rumor in our family that General Pershing did my great aunt.

I really don't blame you for buying a Cross Check.

I commuted on one for two years and thoroughly enjoyed it.

In fact, I sold it to a friend that ended up doing the MS 150 and numerous gravel events on it, including several 100 mile gravel races in the midwest.

He'll be racing this upcoming cross season for All City it looks like, but if he weren't, I would try to talk him into also considering one of these.

Gives the Cross Check a little competition I think.

At a decent price point.

A Black Mountain Cycle monstercross.

Yes, I looked at the Black Mountain Monstercross. Very nice bike and, if you look at the specs, very similar to the Surly, except that the Surly has many more brazeons. What the hell, there may be room for (more) redundancy.

I rode with Ritchey Speed Maxs on my CC.

700x32s.

How much tire can you cram in your new one I wonder?

Surly claims it will take 44's and I don't doubt it. My mechanic friends at a LBS tell me they have set up a lot of CC's for monstercross. However, as long as I'm riding this bike SS, I'll go with narrower tires. I ride at least a third of my yearly mileage SS, and will probably increase that this year. Right now I am using 28 Gators. And, I have a set of 30 Speedmax on another set of wheels ready to go. One thing I've learned about SS is that, when it's between you, one gear and the road, you really feel the slog of fat tires in acceleration and climbing.

I like that distinction. I'm definitely more of a rider than a polisher -- that's why I use Chain-L on the CrossCheck I commute with! But it's maybe not just the rider; if I had a beautiful all-campy italian lugged bike from the 60's, I'd clean it after every ride too.

As for cramming tire, right now I'm running 32 front and 37 rear, Tektro CR720 canti's (no fenders) and there's still plenty of room.

I agree on the fat tire and ss issue.

I'm not getting any younger, which doesn't help my cause there either.

We ride several times a week in the summer in the Mississippi river bottoms near our house in St. Paul.

Wide, low pressure tires help a lot in the sand and muck down there.

Packed gravel roads are one thing, sandy trails are another.

Good spot for my Fargo 29er!

Ah, the Porter Wagoneer, that was a fine bike! Sometime in the distant past a friend of mine took one of those early Kestrel mountain bikes with the fat fat tubes and applied faux woodgrain self-adhesive shelf paper panels on its white sides. I don't think he ever did find the Jeep emblem for it though.
Brent

That escalated quickly! Anyway, I liked the humor in the Surly statement only because I am now thirty years away from retail hell. I am sure they handle legitimate issues satisfactorily. As for innovation, from Wikipedia; "Noted bicycle technical authority Sheldon Brown said, "Pugsley is, in its way, as revolutionary as the original mountain bikes were in the early 1980s. "


Here is a challenge for you: I heard that there was a connection between Surly Brewing and Surly Bikes, from a time when they were teenagers riding mountain bikes in the 1990's the group of riders called themselves "The Surly Crew" or something like that. Years later, two of the guys founded businesses independently choosing the Surly name. Rather than lawyers fighting over the name, they worked it out over exchanges of beer and bikes. True? or No? If true I think it is very revealing about their culture there.

Thanks for your post. One of five of my Surly bikes.


Surly Steamroller by SaddleUpBike, on Flickr

This bike is taking me from Banff Alberta to the U.S. Mexico border along the Continental Divide, 2711 miles. My C&V mountain bike will stay home.


Surly Troll by SaddleUpBike, on Flickr

I really like the Troll.

Looks like a big time adventure bike.

Flipped a card between that and a Fargo when I was looking.

The Fargo won only due to the price.