Hi,
I bought my first brooks leather saddle ever for my lovely red robin hood 3 speed. She came with her original vinyl brooks and wanted to buy something special.

I ordered the flyer in honey online from the uk. I was sooo excited but saw right off the bat this saddle had scuff marks along the nose, seat and rear by the rivets. Underside, the frame is not midline and from the nose- there is a slight angle. The frame butts along one side leaving 1/3 " gap on the other side.

If I had bought it in person, I would of asked to see another. But that said, now having to deal with international shipping, I could maybe live with the scuffs but the frame should be midline, no?

photos of what you mean?

There was another recent probable quality control issues with a Brooks saddle recently, also an international purchase.
Different saddle. The original poster has yet to report on the outcome of his issue.

sorefeet loves Brooks, he may be able to help as I think customer service is familiar with him

I have been lucky enough to have owned, used and looked closely at Old School Brooks and some of their newer Pre-Softened offerings. I don't think much of the New School stuff! Got a Pre-Softened sitting by the computer right now. I took a close look and, yup, off center.

Most leather saddles have slight irregularities. If you want perfection go with vinyl or plastic.

Ii hope they are clear enough. The flash keeps going off whiting out everything. I love the honey color but the black may be better to hide any future scuff marks.

I originally thought I purchased a Flyer S (women's), that was my intention, but I don't think I could trade with this one.

It looks like a second/blemished ones that go for a slight discount on ebay.

Christ, what are people expecting when they buy a ~$100 saddle!? I mean, ok, I get it, they get a lot of good reviews and folks probably expect to open the box and have some glowing orb of perfection float out of it. It's leather, metal, and stitches. Some of them will "look" better than others and others may have their "quirks". Put it on your bike and go ride on the damn thing...does it FEEL off center? Are the "scuffs" chafing your legs? Did you order the saddle directly from the factory or through a dealer, did it leave the factory with the scuffs or did they occur during shipping? Is it off-center enough to effect the ride quality?

I have to wonder if Brooks' reputation (much of which is fueled by a loyal following here on these forums) has preceded them and is now setting folks up for inevitable disappointment. Scuffs? "Off-center"? I've got a 40+ year old saddle that is a bit off-center when viewed from the front and is chock full of scuffs, yet it is hands down the most comfortable leather saddle I have ever owned.

I still think they're an excellent bang for the buck. Has anyone priced a comparable leather crafted product lately? Think about it like a good pair of leather shoes or boots. For $100 you're going to get a decent pair...you want PERFECTION...be prepared to spend much, much more. Could Brooks produce an absolutely flawless leather saddle? Probably. For ~$100? I doubt it.

It's very possible you may have received an inferior product, but sending it back and asking for a replacement would probably be time better spent than looking for sympathy on a bike forum...maybe? As a company, their demand is up and they are producing a lot of product, some imperfections (at this price point) will slip through the cracks.

/rant, I feel better now, thanks lol

Wow cobrabyte, I'm glad u feel better after posting your response. Before joining, as a lurker, I thought this was a friendly site. I have a raleigh 20 folding too.

As titled, this is the first brooks seat I've ever purchased and wanted to get a feel of what is the norm of new brook saddles as many here are experienced with them. It was not to start a rant against brooks.

Cobrabyte, this saddle is actually a big purchase for me. If $100 bucks isn't a big deal for u, then u are more materially blessed than I. I do own some nice quality items but they were purchased second hand.

I havent tried the saddle out b/c it must be returned in the same condition. I need to factor return shipping &/or restocking fee.

I will check my lbs and take a close look at their brooks stock.

I have 4 Brooks saddles, one like yours with the springs, and as a matter of fact - that one is off center just like yours. Never noticed that in all the years I have owned it until I saw your post. So,... I guess it doesn't matter, at least on the sprung model because I never felt anything out of line. The others with no springs seem to be spot on, and one of them is only a year old. I wonder if the tension on the springs is slightly unequal? Not that I can feel the difference, but with no weight on the saddle it could twist the leather a bit. Don't worry about those minor scuffs, a few hundred miles will rub them out and you will probably make new ones leaning it up against things or crashing.

freckles, welcome.

I'm somewhere in between you & cobrabyte. This generally is a friendly place. I think Cobrabyte's last point about expecting sympathy versus simply writing to Brooks is well-taken. That said, there's more asymmetry than I'd accept for a $100 saddle. I would not accept that much asymmetry from a pair of $100 leather shoes either. It's possible that you wouldn't even notice, but I wouldn't take the chance of voiding the chance of an exchange before contacting Brooks. I also try to avoid any chance of messing with prolonged body/hip/spine alignment issues.

The holes are certainly off centre, but is the leather itself? My brooks from 1981 is far more asymmetrical than my various newer production brooks saddles. I am sure they will replace it if you are unhappy. The scuff look very minor, but it is hard to tell with the flash washing things out. As others have said, once you proofide it and ride is a few 100 miles those will disappear.

Freckles,

I had a Brooks B17 Special that was noticeably asymmetrical. Maybe it was only a cosmetic issue, but it still bothered me. I traded it to another forum member that didn't mind the imperfection. I constantly find myself comparing items in stores, looking for the better one.... even with diaper bags. Unfortunately there aren't stores around that carry a large stock of Brooks saddles to be compared.

Looking at my B17 imperial it's not completely centered either, but it's close enough that I don't mind. 100 dollars is a lot for me too.

So, in short: Yes, that would bother me. Send it back and request a new one, i'm sure they will accommodate you.

You're in Southern California, eh Freckles? Why not send this one back and go buy one at one of the many shops in the area that must stock Brooks saddles, so you can pick out a nice one. Might cost a bit more but you will be happier. Not being snarky here. I have railed on about the decline in the quality of Brooks saddles here myself, only to be roundly criticized, by a couple of members, for doing so. Be careful. There are those here who will brand you because of your complaint, shared here. But I believe sub-standard or flawed workmanship needs to be outed.

https://www.brooksengland.com/dealers...ts/locate/usa/

Brooks is atill capable of making a real nice saddle, and they do, but the QC department lets some saddles out the door that they shouldn't, IMO. And yes, this is a friendly forum in general.

Bargain price on the internet is not always a bargain. Sucks but that is the way it works out sometimes.

$100 is a lot for me too. I don't expect $400 worth of craftsmanship for $100 though, that's exactly my point. Now, if a spring bolt came loose, or the leather ripped from the rivet after 50 miles, or some other major defect was evident, I'd be sending it back to the company I bought it from and would expect a refund or exchange. A couple of scuffs that probably weren't there when they left the factory or a nose that's a *bit off center isn't "outing sub-standard workmanship"...it's nitpicking, whining, call it what you will.

And rootboy, I don't think your recent "critiques" of new production Brooks saddles have caused a backlash because people feel they need to come to the defense of Brooks. I can't speak for everyone, but for me, the reason I find this subject annoying is that so much of the criticizing seems to be speculative and rumor based rather than on anything factual. Forgive me if I don't blindly join in on the pile-on.

From the images provided, that looks like an acceptable $100 saddle to me.

A Flyer wouldn't have been my first choice for an English 3 speed though, I'd have went with a B66 or B67.

Based on the photos, I'd give it a good try. Is it a Select?

Looks fine to me.

A fair point, Cobra.

Soda kinda off the OP's point: there are saddles out there that fit more people, adapt to more asses, are more commonly comfortable, better suspended or shock absorbing, cheaper, usually MUCH lighter than most Brooks models. The "look" fuels much of the market. And why not!? We may have to accept what they dish out at the factory or (a) be accepting of higher prices, (b) accepting of eccentric and errant production flaws.

And yeah ... try to look for decent footwear with decent leather in them for a price less than dinner for you, the wife and all her cousins! Weigh in the actual materials alone in a decent saddle. $100 ... ? Not bad in my estimation, but only by comparison. Leather is not just stripped off the animal and stuck on something. A discrete and multi-stepped process is required to make leather useful in all its forms.

I have a French leather saddle on a Reynolds 531 tubing frame. Nice ... but the last three saddles I have bought were synthetics on CrMo tubing.

If it is scuffed, some leather dye, a gentle application of leather reconditioner should render it nicely. If you are dissatisfied ... send it back. If the resounding message to Brooks from the public is negative, they have some choices: (persist and to hell with some customer ire, (b) increase the price and upgrade quality control, (c) go boutique, (d) other ... like cease production and let a Vietnamese company buy them out.

Yes ... I have had Brooks saddles, but only two of them. Very nice indeed! The B-17 was like a small boat anchor — but very nice.

Freckles, it's the Internet. It's probably not a fun place for thin-skinned folks to play. But, I can assure you no post made as of yet is anything personal toward you. Note that you have been a member for a month or less, but threads more-or-less the same as yours are nothing new here.

I absolutely agree with all that Cobrabyte has said here.

I will add that whether or not $100 to you is an hour's or a week's pay has NOTHING to do with the product that $100 buys. If your station in life influences how you PERCEIVE the quality $100 saddle should have that's on you. It is ENTIRELY irrelevant. I for one, think griping about this "off center" business is absolutely nitpicking and anal retentive. If you bought that saddle from my LBS, the owner would kindly let you go through the boxes and choose the one you thought was best. When you left, we would have a laugh at you for being a guy who obviously obsesses over inconsequential things (imperfect saddles) rather than using (riding) them.

Do you believe that's the case with the saddle pictured in this thread?

Agreed. Any discount you receive online is most often at the expense of certain conveniences (easy returns/exchanges) and customer service.

I'd have went with a B72, personally.

To be completely fair, Colonel, no, I don't think that particular saddle looks all that bad. It's a little off, but not too bad. I've seen much worse. So, perhaps my posting regarding the quality of Brooks saddles is mis-placed in this thread.

I'd send it back on the scuffs alone. Unacceptable.

Scott

And that's one downside to interweb lowball price shopping. Commodity mfg goods like chains & stems are one thing, leather goods not so much.
That saddle is definitely crooked, will that affect the ride? Can't say w/o trying it out. If you find it a >$100 eyesore on your prized bike you know what to do.

BTW

Had to go look at my decades old B-72, straight as can be.

-Bandera