Finally, an Italian...
07-01-13 | 12:48 PM
#26
Banned.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,199
Likes: 1,462
Jake would have killed me if I fell on what bigbossman was riding....
Marco Polo was on one of my bikes on the other side....
I couldn't win, but at least the folks in the bus got a nice show.
07-01-13 | 02:56 PM
#27
The Flying Scot
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,904
Likes: 0
From: North Queensferry Scotland and London (and France)
Bikes: Custom (Colin Laing) 531c fast tourer/audax, 1964 Flying Scot Continental, 1995 Cinelli Supercorsa, Holdsworth Mistral single speed, Dahon Speed 6 (folder), Micmo Sirocco and a few more
That is a beautiful frame.
I was out on my 1995 Supercorsa today (also SLX, pearlescent white but as it has been well used the chrome and paint is nowhere near as good as yours) and it is a great ride.
The cockpit is a great place to be, looking down at the chrome flying "C"s.
I built mine with 30 speed Campag Veloce gruppo. I had no problem with spacing for a 10sp rear.
I have Cinelli bars on other bikes, but put 3ts on this as I liked the shape of the deep drop and a went for a slightly wider bar for better breathing.
Wheels are (at present) Ventos, which are strong but a bit heavy. I sometimes use a pair of self built Veloce hubs on Mavic Open pros, which are nice, but I like the spoke pattern and black colour of the Ventos. Tyres are Conti Grand prix
I may swap to a double for aesthetics as I never use the inner ring.
Yes it has SPDs in the photo. I sometimes ride 4 of my bikes a week and find it easier not to have to change shoes. Generally, if i'm going for a day run I stick Looks on it and use my road shoes.
What amazes me about the Supercorsa is that it's fairly relaxing to ride straight, even hands off (on smooth surfaces), but dives left and right if you just think about it! The rear is very stiff so it also climbs well.
I hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine.
I was out on my 1995 Supercorsa today (also SLX, pearlescent white but as it has been well used the chrome and paint is nowhere near as good as yours) and it is a great ride.
The cockpit is a great place to be, looking down at the chrome flying "C"s.
I built mine with 30 speed Campag Veloce gruppo. I had no problem with spacing for a 10sp rear.
I have Cinelli bars on other bikes, but put 3ts on this as I liked the shape of the deep drop and a went for a slightly wider bar for better breathing.
Wheels are (at present) Ventos, which are strong but a bit heavy. I sometimes use a pair of self built Veloce hubs on Mavic Open pros, which are nice, but I like the spoke pattern and black colour of the Ventos. Tyres are Conti Grand prix
I may swap to a double for aesthetics as I never use the inner ring.
Yes it has SPDs in the photo. I sometimes ride 4 of my bikes a week and find it easier not to have to change shoes. Generally, if i'm going for a day run I stick Looks on it and use my road shoes.
What amazes me about the Supercorsa is that it's fairly relaxing to ride straight, even hands off (on smooth surfaces), but dives left and right if you just think about it! The rear is very stiff so it also climbs well.
I hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine.
__________________
plus je vois les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens
1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1
plus je vois les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens
1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1
07-01-13 | 03:11 PM
#28
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,721
Likes: 4,359
From: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.
(Of course, if I'd been there and you landed on me, you wouldn't even have known you'd crashed.) Stan:
Nice score. It will be a fun and worthy addition to the stable.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
07-01-13 | 03:54 PM
#29
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 3
From: Seattle
Bikes: Frejus/Bertin/Cannondale
Thanks, all. I'm really looking forward to building this up.
Bob, I nearly put another mouthful of coffee all over my keyboard. Dad would probably be miffed at first, but I'm sure he'd quickly get over it.
He was a loyal General Motors customer all his life, but eventually forgave me for buying my first imported car, a 1970 Porsche 914.
Bob, I nearly put another mouthful of coffee all over my keyboard. Dad would probably be miffed at first, but I'm sure he'd quickly get over it.
He was a loyal General Motors customer all his life, but eventually forgave me for buying my first imported car, a 1970 Porsche 914.
I'm fairly sure we're not related (my grandfather was a Krupa, like in Gene Krupa, his cousin) but I'm a Cooper too. 
My father was a 1st generation American-born, and they Americanized Krupa to Cooper. But Cooper is an old name, in any language, lots of folks needed good barrel-makers. 
07-01-13 | 09:52 PM
#30
Thread Starter
Decrepit Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,488
Likes: 92
From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
Cooper in the phone book is almost as common as Smith or Jones. I guess there must have been a heckuva lot of barrel makers to keep the pubs well stocked with wine.
I've measured the Supercorsa carefully, and did it three times to confirm the rather strange geometry. Both the seat tube and head tube angles are considerably steeper than those listed on the Cinelli website for the current production bikes. I'm thinking it might be custom geo.
Here's what the published current geo looks like with parallel 73° STA and HTA in the larger frame sizes.
Here are the measurements from my 1985 Supercorsa. The STA is 73.9°, and the HTA is 75.6°. That HTA and the 43 mm fork rake with 700c - 25 tires result in a trail of 42.4 mm. I'm wondering just how twitchy this thing is going to be to ride.
I zeroed the Wixey on the extruded aluminum rails the front and rear wheels are on to get the centerline through the dropout centers at 0° to the horizontal, then moved the Wixey to the seat tube, head tube, and top tube. The rear axle is centered in the dropouts.
Seat Tube Angle:
Head Tube Angle (the angle changed to 75.5° as I took the photo):
Top Tube:
The weight of the frame, fork, and headset is 6.74 pounds. Not too shabby for such a big frame.
It'll be interesting to see how this thing handles.
I've measured the Supercorsa carefully, and did it three times to confirm the rather strange geometry. Both the seat tube and head tube angles are considerably steeper than those listed on the Cinelli website for the current production bikes. I'm thinking it might be custom geo.
Here's what the published current geo looks like with parallel 73° STA and HTA in the larger frame sizes.
Here are the measurements from my 1985 Supercorsa. The STA is 73.9°, and the HTA is 75.6°. That HTA and the 43 mm fork rake with 700c - 25 tires result in a trail of 42.4 mm. I'm wondering just how twitchy this thing is going to be to ride.
I zeroed the Wixey on the extruded aluminum rails the front and rear wheels are on to get the centerline through the dropout centers at 0° to the horizontal, then moved the Wixey to the seat tube, head tube, and top tube. The rear axle is centered in the dropouts.
Seat Tube Angle:
Head Tube Angle (the angle changed to 75.5° as I took the photo):
Top Tube:
The weight of the frame, fork, and headset is 6.74 pounds. Not too shabby for such a big frame.
It'll be interesting to see how this thing handles.
Last edited by Scooper; 07-04-13 at 01:50 PM. Reason: Declutered geo drawing and made minor corrections
07-01-13 | 11:44 PM
#31
Senior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 577
Likes: 115
From: S.F. Bay Area
Bikes: Motobecane Grand Record, Colnago Super, Mondia Super, Mondia Special, Mondia Prestige (for sale 55cm),Titan Star, Titan Exklusiv, Windsor
Nice Frame...!
If it rides anything like mine, you should be very pleased. I never had any issues w/ handling on my SC. It always ran true & was a champ on the downhill runs. I also purchased mine as a 'frame only' from a tech friend of mine in the early 90's. Only it was a new frame, also 59 cm. Looking at the ebay pics, I see you're missing the little 'flying C' button on the stay(s)? I lost one of mine too. I you're looking for a replacement, Universal Bikes has them: Replacement Buttons
I live in the Bay Area as well. Good luck on building it up. I had a C-Record group mounted on it w/ an SRP Ti upgrade kit & Syncros BB. I believe it weighs-in at about 20 lbs. For it's size, it's really lightweight. With a good pair of sew-ups, you'll be all set...!
If it rides anything like mine, you should be very pleased. I never had any issues w/ handling on my SC. It always ran true & was a champ on the downhill runs. I also purchased mine as a 'frame only' from a tech friend of mine in the early 90's. Only it was a new frame, also 59 cm. Looking at the ebay pics, I see you're missing the little 'flying C' button on the stay(s)? I lost one of mine too. I you're looking for a replacement, Universal Bikes has them: Replacement Buttons
I live in the Bay Area as well. Good luck on building it up. I had a C-Record group mounted on it w/ an SRP Ti upgrade kit & Syncros BB. I believe it weighs-in at about 20 lbs. For it's size, it's really lightweight. With a good pair of sew-ups, you'll be all set...!
07-02-13 | 08:03 AM
#32
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,223
Likes: 12
From: Chicago
Bikes: 2012 Moots VaMoots-74 Peugeot Mixtie U018-73 Peugeot U018
vélo fantastique!!! Don't ride, hang it up! It is gorgeous! Here's what yours will look like when wrapped in carbon! Mine's a 95 and size is 52cm, weights as equipped 18.5 lbs my lightest road bike!
__________________
Moots VaMoots 2012-Peugeot Mixte 1974-Peugeot Mixte 1973
Moots VaMoots 2012-Peugeot Mixte 1974-Peugeot Mixte 1973
07-02-13 | 11:04 AM
#33
Thread Starter
Decrepit Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,488
Likes: 92
From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
Nice Frame...!
If it rides anything like mine, you should be very pleased. I never had any issues w/ handling on my SC. It always ran true & was a champ on the downhill runs. I also purchased mine as a 'frame only' from a tech friend of mine in the early 90's. Only it was a new frame, also 59 cm. Looking at the ebay pics, I see you're missing the little 'flying C' button on the stay(s)? I lost one of mine too. I you're looking for a replacement, Universal Bikes has them: Replacement Buttons
I live in the Bay Area as well. Good luck on building it up. I had a C-Record group mounted on it w/ an SRP Ti upgrade kit & Syncros BB. I believe it weighs-in at about 20 lbs. For it's size, it's really lightweight. With a good pair of sew-ups, you'll be all set...!
If it rides anything like mine, you should be very pleased. I never had any issues w/ handling on my SC. It always ran true & was a champ on the downhill runs. I also purchased mine as a 'frame only' from a tech friend of mine in the early 90's. Only it was a new frame, also 59 cm. Looking at the ebay pics, I see you're missing the little 'flying C' button on the stay(s)? I lost one of mine too. I you're looking for a replacement, Universal Bikes has them: Replacement Buttons
I live in the Bay Area as well. Good luck on building it up. I had a C-Record group mounted on it w/ an SRP Ti upgrade kit & Syncros BB. I believe it weighs-in at about 20 lbs. For it's size, it's really lightweight. With a good pair of sew-ups, you'll be all set...!
The seller did provide a pair of NOS flying C buttons for the top of the seat stays, but because there is a little rust on the chromed part of the seat lug (the only corrosion I can find anywhere), I want to try removing it with oxalic acid before applying the buttons.
I plan on using a Brooks saddle and 36 spoke 3x clincher rims with 23c tires, and with the triple crank I doubt it'll weigh much less than 23 or 24 pounds, but that's plenty light enough for me.
).
07-02-13 | 11:20 AM
#35
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 15,946
Likes: 371
From: Philadelphia, PA
Bikes: Two wheeled ones
LOVE the art-deco grammo stem!
07-04-13 | 02:07 PM
#36
Thread Starter
Decrepit Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,488
Likes: 92
From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
I've measured the Supercorsa carefully, and did it three times to confirm the rather strange geometry. Both the seat tube and head tube angles are considerably steeper than those listed on the Cinelli website for the current production bikes. I'm thinking it might be custom geo.
Here are the measurements from my 1985 Supercorsa. The STA is 73.9°, and the HTA is 75.6°. That HTA and the 43 mm fork rake with 700c - 25 tires result in a trail of 42.4 mm. I'm wondering just how twitchy this thing is going to be to ride.
The weight of the frame, fork, and headset is 6.74 pounds. Not too shabby for such a big frame.
It'll be interesting to see how this thing handles.
Here are the measurements from my 1985 Supercorsa. The STA is 73.9°, and the HTA is 75.6°. That HTA and the 43 mm fork rake with 700c - 25 tires result in a trail of 42.4 mm. I'm wondering just how twitchy this thing is going to be to ride.
The weight of the frame, fork, and headset is 6.74 pounds. Not too shabby for such a big frame.
It'll be interesting to see how this thing handles.
Originally Posted by Gary Fountain
1985 Cinelli Supercorsa Review
Strengths: The essence of Italian craftsmanship. Over 20 years old and yet brilliant to ride. It will always remain desirable amongst informed cyclists.
Weaknesses: The criterium geometry can be tiring as you have to watch the road and not ride into things. Then again, it keeps your mind on the bike. Centuries are out but a quick ride over a favorite course is always fun.
Bottom Line: I have owned this bike since 1985. I purchased the China Blue frame and fitted it with the best Campagnolo had to offer - Super Record. Since then I have added equipment that I considered would complement the era and the frame.
The frame geometry is pure criterium. The seat tube angle is 74 degrees while the head tube angle is 75.5 degrees. You have to be alert when you ride it as it is very twitchy and very responsive. Even with this extreme geometry it remains totally dependable at any speed (you point it and it goes there).
The weight is 21 lbs which was very good for the era. Being a larger frame, it is built with the slightly thicker walled Columbus SPX tubeset, with Cinelli lugs of course. This makes the overall weight that much more impressive.
The 'Columbo' Cinellis of the 1980's had varying quality reviews, but, I'm extremely happy with my particular frame's build quality and finish. The chrome is deep and the paint is lusterous. It still looks brand new.
It's the type of bike you can just admire for its beauty. It is still my one bike I just go and look at and I currently own 27 bikes.
Strengths: The essence of Italian craftsmanship. Over 20 years old and yet brilliant to ride. It will always remain desirable amongst informed cyclists.
Weaknesses: The criterium geometry can be tiring as you have to watch the road and not ride into things. Then again, it keeps your mind on the bike. Centuries are out but a quick ride over a favorite course is always fun.
Bottom Line: I have owned this bike since 1985. I purchased the China Blue frame and fitted it with the best Campagnolo had to offer - Super Record. Since then I have added equipment that I considered would complement the era and the frame.
The frame geometry is pure criterium. The seat tube angle is 74 degrees while the head tube angle is 75.5 degrees. You have to be alert when you ride it as it is very twitchy and very responsive. Even with this extreme geometry it remains totally dependable at any speed (you point it and it goes there).
The weight is 21 lbs which was very good for the era. Being a larger frame, it is built with the slightly thicker walled Columbus SPX tubeset, with Cinelli lugs of course. This makes the overall weight that much more impressive.
The 'Columbo' Cinellis of the 1980's had varying quality reviews, but, I'm extremely happy with my particular frame's build quality and finish. The chrome is deep and the paint is lusterous. It still looks brand new.
It's the type of bike you can just admire for its beauty. It is still my one bike I just go and look at and I currently own 27 bikes.
07-04-13 | 05:36 PM
#37
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,993
Likes: 300
From: Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia.
Bikes: Colnago (82, 85, 89, 90, 91, 96, 03), 85 Cinelli, 90 Rossin, 83 Alan, 82 Bianchi, 78 Fountain, 2 x Pinarello, Malvern Star (37), Hillman (70's), 80's Beretto Lo-Pro Track, 80's Kenevans Lo-Pro, Columbus Max (95), DeGrandi (80's) Track.
Absolutely beautiful frame Stan and in my favourite colour. I really hope you have many enjoyable years together.
07-04-13 | 05:45 PM
#38
Thread Starter
Decrepit Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,488
Likes: 92
From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
Thanks to your review, I know what I've got.
07-04-13 | 07:02 PM
#41
Mr. Anachronism
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,110
Likes: 291
From: Somewhere west of Tobie's
Bikes: fillet-brazed Chicago Schwinns, and some other stuff
Another term might be "covet". I should know, as I've coveted your Campy/Super Sport since stumbling onto your posts about it over a year ago. Those posts are the reason I'm on this forum, and I'll be posting my own take on a SS build here in the near future. Won't hold a candle to yours, but as RobbieTunes says... "I blame you".
__________________
"My only true wisdom is in knowing I have none" -Socrates
"My only true wisdom is in knowing I have none" -Socrates
07-04-13 | 08:57 PM
#42
Thread Starter
Decrepit Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,488
Likes: 92
From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
I've been blamed for lotsa nasty stuff, but if I inspired you to undertake a Super Sport project I'll take the blame with pleasure instead of shame.
07-05-13 | 07:26 AM
#44
Thread Starter
Decrepit Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,488
Likes: 92
From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
07-05-13 | 08:58 AM
#45
The geometry on your guys bikes is pretty aggressive. Even my Tesch S-22 is not that radical.
I am not surprised though from the time, the Italians were moving steeper and more "darty" at the time.
Even my mid 70's custom Criterium bike had more trail than that! I guess you could always place a handlebar bag on it... In keeping with the Jan Heine low trail school...
Be interesting if the current bikes actually conform to the published geometry table in the bigger sizes.
Will the frame even tolerate 25 mm tires?
We mid sized framed guys generally get what is published.
I am not surprised though from the time, the Italians were moving steeper and more "darty" at the time.
Even my mid 70's custom Criterium bike had more trail than that! I guess you could always place a handlebar bag on it... In keeping with the Jan Heine low trail school...
Be interesting if the current bikes actually conform to the published geometry table in the bigger sizes.
Will the frame even tolerate 25 mm tires?
We mid sized framed guys generally get what is published.
07-05-13 | 10:07 AM
#46
Chrome Freak
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,208
Likes: 26
From: Kuna, ID
Bikes: 71 Chrome Paramount P13-9, 73 Opaque Blue Paramount P15, 74 Blue Mink Raleigh Pro, 91 Waterford Paramount, Holland Titanium x2
Wow, that is gorgeous, Stan!
If it causes you get a little bored with your Waterford, I'll be happy to make a new home for it down here in San Diego........
If it causes you get a little bored with your Waterford, I'll be happy to make a new home for it down here in San Diego........
__________________
1971 Paramount P-13 Chrome
1973 Paramount P-15 Opaque Blue
1974 Raleigh Professional Blue Mink
1991 Waterford Paramount
Holland Titanium Dura Ace Group
Holland Titanium Ultegra Triple Group
1971 Paramount P-13 Chrome
1973 Paramount P-15 Opaque Blue
1974 Raleigh Professional Blue Mink
1991 Waterford Paramount
Holland Titanium Dura Ace Group
Holland Titanium Ultegra Triple Group
07-05-13 | 11:28 AM
#47
Thread Starter
Decrepit Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,488
Likes: 92
From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
Yes; there's generous clearance for 25 mm tires all around. That was the first thing I checked when I got it home.
25c tire fork clearance:
25c tire seat stay clearance:
25c tire chain stay clearance:
25c tire fork clearance:
25c tire seat stay clearance:
25c tire chain stay clearance:
Last edited by Scooper; 07-05-13 at 12:22 PM.
07-05-13 | 11:33 AM
#48
Thread Starter
Decrepit Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,488
Likes: 92
From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
Frankly, I get the feeling the SC might be too hot for me to handle on anything more than a 20-30 mile ride. The boring Waterford will be a welcome relief.
07-05-13 | 02:13 PM
#49
Thread Starter
Decrepit Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,488
Likes: 92
From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
I ordered a 1983 Cinelli catalog copy from Velo-Retro, and the Supercorsa Strada section indicates there were two versions available: Universal Purpose and Stop-watch Racing Purpose. There are no geometry tables in the catalog. Does anyone know if the "universal purpose" version had slacker angles and longer chainstays, and the "stop-watch racing purpose" version had the crit geometry?
In the catalog, the Italian language names are "Impiego universale" and "Impiego corsa a cronometro." The Italian to English Google on-line translator translates "impiego corsa a cronometro" as "use time trial."
In the catalog, the Italian language names are "Impiego universale" and "Impiego corsa a cronometro." The Italian to English Google on-line translator translates "impiego corsa a cronometro" as "use time trial."
07-05-13 | 07:04 PM
#50
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,993
Likes: 300
From: Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia.
Bikes: Colnago (82, 85, 89, 90, 91, 96, 03), 85 Cinelli, 90 Rossin, 83 Alan, 82 Bianchi, 78 Fountain, 2 x Pinarello, Malvern Star (37), Hillman (70's), 80's Beretto Lo-Pro Track, 80's Kenevans Lo-Pro, Columbus Max (95), DeGrandi (80's) Track.
I ordered a 1983 Cinelli catalog copy from Velo-Retro, and the Supercorsa Strada section indicates there were two versions available: Universal Purpose and Stop-watch Racing Purpose. There are no geometry tables in the catalog. Does anyone know if the "universal purpose" version had slacker angles and longer chainstays, and the "stop-watch racing purpose" version had the crit geometry?
In the catalog, the Italian language names are "Impiego universale" and "Impiego corsa a cronometro." The Italian to English Google on-line translator translates "impiego corsa a cronometro" as "use time trial."
In the catalog, the Italian language names are "Impiego universale" and "Impiego corsa a cronometro." The Italian to English Google on-line translator translates "impiego corsa a cronometro" as "use time trial."