...what a buyer might need, instead of just how to maximize their profits?

I'm looking at the parts put up for auction by the same guy who put up that Moto frame, parts that clearly go together. Whoever wins the frame will need a French headset, and it really should be a Campy though I guess it doesn't have to be. (The winner will also need a BB, crank, pedals, etc, but options for those are more available.) If someone wins the headset but loses the frame ( I have my limits!) he will be sitting on a French headset with no bike to put it on.

But the thing is, the frame auction ends last. Whoever puts in a winning bid on the headset must already have a use for it or else be willing to gamble. Had the finishing order been the other way around the frame winner could then place a high enough bid on the headset to (almost) guarantee a win.

Now, one could figure that winning the headset first might make someone bid higher on the frame. But that really is a case of building up a bike around a small, though essential part. Parts come and go but good frames in the right size are harder to find.

And another thing. Why end auctions for recreational stuff in the middle of a day when people might be out recreating? Do they think buyers are sitting by their computer terminals ready to type in a higher bid? Not me today. As soon as the temperature goes up a few more degrees and I finish second breakfast I'm going out riding.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that the seller never thought about any of this.

I won't take that bet Jim. They only care about maximizing their profit, as you said. It's unfortunate. But true.

I have to admit I wouldn't have thought about the frameset/headset thing, but then again, I'm not a Francophile when it comes to bikes (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it).

As for the time to list, that's always a difficult thing. I always tried to have my auctions end sometime in the early evening - usually no later than 8pm on the left coast so that if a buyer on the east coast might be interested it wouldn't be too late. But there's something to be said for family time in the evenings, too. I guess that's just a personal thing.

The only thing that really bugs me about Ebay is having to pay return shipping on an item received not as described - particularly if it's going overseas. Sometimes that can cost upwards of 40USD when one uses the Ebay-required tracking number. I've had this happen a few times while out here, and if the seller simply had included that the item had missing/broken parts in the auction....sigh....

DD

I haven't sold on ebay in years.

When I did, I made sure to end auctions on a Sunday evening, usually at 8 pm or so east coast time.

I don't understand why sellers would end an auction during the work week, before lunch time.

But I am clearly old school on this topic.

It seems so much easier to have the buyer show up in person and give me the cash.

However, that's not the way the system works, I am well aware.

It's about maximizing profits and it takes a well trained, seasoned seller to play that game well.

Short answer: no. Profit is the motive.

I saw a few months ago, with some sadness, that an entire Raleigh Competition GS was sold in pieces. A nice, original bike was put on the organ donor program while still alive. Sad about the bike, but if I were after maximum $$, I'd have done the same thing. Fortunate for the seller, a hassle for the buyer, and heartbreak for the collector. In this case, there are more buyers than sellers, so sellers can do what they want.

Capitalism has good and bad, but I'll take it any day.

I recently sold French frame on ebay. In the listing, I noted that frame requires specific parts, the seat post size, BB threading and headset requirements. It keeps people from being surprised when the get the frame.

Just like every other collectible, there is an industry there to service the collector. I'm just immensely thankful that the Internet and ebay for that manner, has enabled finding what you need and if you're patient get it at reasonable value. Imagine if all we had to rely upon was a version of Hemmings?

Also, it makes bike collecting self funding, as one of the outlets to turnover unused parts or reconditioned bikes.

I have bought and sold lots of items via ebay, from Pentium Pro motherboards to cast iron Kohler sinks.

And while I patronize the neighborhood hardware store where Clint Eastwood shopped, I have to turn to the Internet when fixing an appliance; diagnostic advice, exploded parts diagrams, and parts. I've replaced a SubZero fan, Viking range igniter, Bosch dishwasher switch, Grohe faucet, Whirlpool range gas regulator, and Whirlpool ice maker, all with the help of PDFs, ebay, and Amazon. The appliances in fact were bought used, for as little as 6% of current discounted retail.

Actually, the opposite is true from what you wrote.

If a seller wants to maximize profit, they would have the auction end at 7-8 pm.

If the seller wants to maximize profit would have the parts after the frame.

If a seller wants to maximize profit, they would know about sniping.

So no, this seller does not want to maximize profit.

I am indeed grateful for how ebay makes parts available that might otherwise be made of unobtanium.

FWIW, I did contact the seller and he said the bike was already disassembled when he got it. Okay. He offered me the wheels if I won the auction. I volunteered that he's close enough that I can drive there and save myself the shipping cost and save him the Paypall charges. He's been accommodating with info. But the timing still seems a no-brainer, meaning he submitted things without using his brain.

I find very few people know how to effectively sell on ebay. Those with the best pictures always sell at a premium. And cheap buyers rarely buy from them. The opposite rings true, cheap buyers can buy cheap when the the pictures aren't clear because those willing to spend for what they want won't take a chance.

I would call most sellers on ebay motivated by laziness. They do the least possible. They don't realize that 5% more work will yield a greater than 5% profit.

I am indeed grateful for how ebay makes parts available that might otherwise be made of unobtanium.

FWIW, I did contact the seller and he said the bike was already disassembled when he got it. Okay. He offered me the wheels if I won the auction. I volunteered that he's close enough that I can drive there and save myself the shipping cost and save him the Paypall charges. He's been accommodating with info. But the timing still seems a no-brainer, meaning he submitted things without using his brain.

John Baron of velostuf a number of years ago offered a bike to the CR list (mailing list days) and essentially the price for the bike was near what it would fetch at auction a la carte. It sat. I would have to look back but I think one bike finally sold and the other went as parts. As I recall the bikes were "correct" in build, no frankenbikes, so to a collector or enthusiast of the brand they would have been what one would have expected to build anyway.

Yes, the hyper pricing of components have turned the world of CV upside down, where we are seeing more and more nice bikes having their components overtake the values of the frame, so we see more and more nice bikes being broken down for their parts. Is there a growing shortage of parts and components driving this trend and ricing? I suspect to some extent there is, as years go by and the finite supply gets used up, but it may have been accelerated a bit by the recent retro fad where the demand for C&V bikes and parts have been raised to unprecedented levels.
Maybe we C&Vers have ourselves to blame in some ways as we were so good at using the internet to spread the "virtues" of the C&V bikes we love so much.... resulting in sort of free advertising for hyper pricers at auction sites....
We certainly can use a "market correction" where prices of many C&V stuff should be racheted down to a more sensible and SELLABLE level.....

I think some do and some don't . The fact is I have just parted out a Zeus competition that will hit Ebay soon...in pieces. The bike is not a show queen, and some of the unobtainium parts (wheels) were gone when I got it. If someone wanted to try to restore it, they could, but I would have to nearly give it away for one reason: Shipping. I might as well live on the moon. No one around here (physically, not virtually) wants the thing. It is probably worth $150-$200 as is, But are YOU going to spent $190 to ship a complete $150 dollar bike?? No. I can part it out for probably twice the "together" value and ship it in parts for probably $130-$145, and spread that shipping over multiple buyers. While some folks around here would be willing to take a completely disassemble bike back together to save $100 buck on shipping, but most e-bay people are not.

So. I can put the bike in the barn and forget it exists for the next 40 years. I can give it away (and I do this sometimes) for the cost of shipping. Or I can get some $$ to fund my other projects by selling the parts to people would actually need them to keep their own Zeus' running (this assumes that no one would by Alpha brakes unless they has a Zeus...I know I wouldn't). I would further point out that when I do this, that I stager the auctions and combine shipping should someone want to re-collect some or all of the bits to hang on the tree.

Now, if we move to more valuable bikes...say an original, good shape Raleigh International, my position begins to change. Bikes whose values (together) moving quickly north of $500 I tend to keep together, even if I could get a 30% premium on the parts and will take a bath on the shipping. I would also note that some bikes, e.g. an 1983 original Specialized Expedition, are worth far more complete than the sum of their parts.

Now...go buy Zeus stuff on Ebay.

This is a peculiar conundrum. I think that a large percentage of the people out there acquiring vintage bikes are building them up piece by piece rather than buying complete bikes. I have thought of a few reasons for this:
1. They are on a budget and buy the parts as they can afford them.
2. They are hoping to score a deals on the parts if they are patient.
3. They enjoy the process of building up the bike and thus gaining some deeper sense of ownership of the bike.

I know that all three of the above reasons have applied to me at one time or another.

So I'm wondering just how many bikes get torn down into their component parts, sold, and then built back up again from a different set of near-identical parts. How many bikes have gone through this process more than once?

I just returned from the Cow Palace bike swap where I sold over $800 of components, mostly Campy Record and Nuovo Record, but neither of the two vintage bikes I brought. I've also tried to sell them on ebay and on this list. I have been told by list members that my prices are certainly not out of line. Both bikes are unusual builds, a Centurion/Cinelli Equipe and an early Motobecane LeChampion, with the correct original parts. Neither is the standard "All Campy" build. Based on my experience with selling components I could probably sell these two pretty easily if I were to break them down and sell them as parts but it seems a shame to break up these unique bikes.

Maybe I'm just being an old fuddy-duddy: Maybe what buyers really want is to buy the bikes piece by piece.
Brent

That's why I use a snipe program. I just tell it the maximum amount I'm willing to spend and walk away. If I win it, great; if not, there'll probably be another one along eventually.

Full Campagnolo just belongs on a Colnago more than Lygie. Bicycles are one of the interesting product assemblies where a ho mum frame can have the same components as a rare or highly sought after frame.

A talented seller will look at both: supplying what a buyer needs in order to maximize their profits. Long term, both go hand in hand. Sellers who don't understand this get LESS. Sellers have no obligation to sell things at below market pricing, just so someone can get a deal.

+1 Some of my part outs make no sense as a complete bike. For instance, I picked up a Batavus Professional (nice bike). But it had some shortcomings. Did I mention it came without wheels? And the Campy Triomphe derailleurs, shift levers and brake levers were all gone, replaced with Shimano RSX STI (ugh). So what remained? The original Triomphe seat post, pedals, crankset, bb, brake calipers, nice Batavus saddle, etc. I faced a choice: spend some serious $$ rounding up the right wheels, derailleurs, and levers, or part it out.

I've certainly built up bikes piece by piece. Bought only one complete bike, my UO-8 new a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. None of my builds have been with completely original-type components though they are mostly faithful either to their original appearance or to how an owner might have upgraded a rider. Were I building a restoration it would have to be as you suggest, a bike taken apart then rebuilt with different but identical components. Isn't that how any restoration would work by definition?