Velocivixen

I bought this bike last summer - first ever CL buy. The original Huret Derailleurs were long gone and someone "upgraded" to Shimano 6 speed shift levers (downtube), shimano indexed/friction rear derailleur and Shimano front derailleur. They also changed the 27" wheels to 700c, thus changing the brakes also.

I moved the shift levers to bar end pods with the help of those little Shimano adapter washers, and would like to change the derailleurs to something somewhat period correct. I do know where I could get front/rear Huret Jubile derailleurs reasonably, but am thinking more along the lines of Suntour. Rear derailleur is direct mount. I have a new Sunrace 6-speed freewheel on it. I bought a Sutour Cyclone Mark II GT rear derailleur and was thinking to use it on the rear, then just buy a matching front derailleur. I know that the Mark II's have a more sleek, modern look, so was wondering if that would be too "off" aesthetically? I did get a bit overly excited when I bought the bike and had custom 700c wheels made- Velo Orange Grand Cru high flange hubs laced to H Plus Son TB14 rims. Very pretty. I also have VO hammered fenders on it. I put a Nitto Technomic stem (lots of sanding) with Soma "Oxford" bars but I'm not sure I like that setup and am considering putting on the original Pivo Professional bars back.
Anyway, that was a lot of info. for a short question. Thoughts? I'm hoping to keep this reasonably priced. I guess I really want to know if there's something better to use than the Cyclone Mark II? If you made it this far, thanks!

jimmuller 

A likely upgrade back then would have been to a Suntour V series, maybe VGT-Luxe, or the earlier VT or the later Vx, They are all good. Maybe a tiny bit heavier than the Huret Jubile, but nearly indestructible and excellent performers, not too expensive. If you want both style and higher-end though, look for a 1st generation Cyclone instead of the Mk II. Expect to pay a bit more though.

big chainring 

If i had a Grand Jubile, I think I would stick with Jubile derailleurs. French bike, French components.

repechage

Of the correct configuration. Huret made them for their own and Campagnolo form factor dropouts.

So, I would check the dropout first.

Post an image if needed.

There is a chance you will need a top spring mechanism, which could mean Simplex (one of the LJ later alloy units)

oddjob2

+1 Why else would a Huret derailleur and a Motobecane share the same model name?

rootboy 

That is, if you have the two hundred bucks to spend on derailleurs.

oddjob2

Cheaper to buy another bike with the Grand Jubile in place. I paid $135 for the GJ mixte at the Joisey shore.

kroozer 

The Huret Challenger can be found fairly cheaply, looks pretty good, and shifts pretty well.

wrk101

My somewhat newer GJ mixte (1978 or 1979) came with a Japanese drivetrain: Cyclone generation 1 derailleurs, SR Apex crankset, etc.

Cyclone II would be fine, myself, I would go with the Vx instead (more appealing aesthetically, and an outstanding derailleur).

I have owned several Motobecanes that came with Japanese components. While MB seemed to have loved Swiss bottom brackets, they were ahead of their peers IMHO by embracing nice Japanese components.

auchencrow

If you want to look 1974 period correct, I think going back to the French stem would be essential.

The Jubile derailleur is a beautiful, expensive, classic but fragile derailleur with (IMO) mediocre shift quality. Though it is the one that would look best on your GJ, if you are going to ride this one daily, I would lean toward the Challenger that @kroozer suggested. The Challenger is reasonably inexpensive, French, and IME its shift quality is excellent - almost as good as the Suntours.

rootboy 

True. A '74 Grand Record recently given to me by Scott Ryder had a very nice, and original, set of Nitto bars and stem on it.

bibliobob

Photos, please!

Congrats on the GJ. I've had a couple, and they are a personal favorite. Unfortunately for me, I fall between their two biggest frame sizes. But, I recently picked up a '71ish Grand Record that I hope will fit the bill. Even though the GR originally came with Campy parts, I will outfit it with Jubilee derailleurs, as they're the nicest looking ever made

What kind of dropouts are on your frame? Nothing wrong with cyclone but, for purely aesthetic reasons, I'd probably go with either Jubilee or V GT Luxe derailleurs...

Photos, please!

Catnap 

I must disagree - my experience with the Jubilee was very positive, one of the smoothest shifting derailleurs I have ever used. So smooth, in fact, that occasionally I would look down and check the rear cluster to confirm I'd shifted! I paired it with Simplex retrofriction shifters which no doubt improved performance as well. I used it on a commuter bike that I rode daily throughout 2011-2012 without any additional care, cleaning, or adjustment.

I would go all Jubile on this bike - it's period / stock correct and you won't be disappointed!

Velocivixen

Thanks everyone. The dropouts are Huret. I can post pictures later today. The Huret Jubile I saw looked short cage and I'm not sure off hand if it would handle a 28 tooth cog in rear. Front will be 42-52 chain rings (that's another whole kettle of fish). I'm worried that if I get exactly correct derailleurs, then I'll want exactly correct wheels, and exactly correct shifters, etc....You get the idea. I don't want to get too fixated on that. The Huret derailleurs are lovely - even drilled. Owner wants around $90 for rear & $60 for the front. Not even sure he still has them.
The Suntours sound like ones I've looked at on ebay but many have the claw dropout attached. Seems like I've asked that question before regarding removing the claw and what, if any additional bolts, etc I would require to mount it.
Thanks for the excellent ideas and choices!

Velocivixen

@repechage - not sure what you mean by perhaps needing a "top spring mechanism"? I'll go take some close ups if what's on there & dig through some disassemble photos for other relevant stuff.

So just looked on ebay and see 4 Suntour V-GT Luxe derailleurs all around $25-40, but 3 have that attached dropout. My bike has a dropout so....if someone hear has the patience, please tell me if it's probable to get that jam nut off the back & just screw it on. My other derailleurs have this split washer piece that I think is a locknut that holds the derailleur tight to the frame, but still allows the unit to pivot. Wouldn't that washer be missing on a "claw" derailleur?

wrk101

I've removed several claws from Suntour derailleurs and mounted them directly without issue. Sometimes there is a washer between the claw and derailleur to allow it to rotate. Don't toss it.

V GT is a good derailleur to find at the local co-op if you have one. They were very common.

RaleighSport

That reminds me.. I had to drill out a cyclone mounting bolt the other day because some yahoo who shall remain nameless, had installed a mounting claw on it.. the soft alum of the bolt and the hardness of the claw made it impossible to manually remove.. just stripped out the hex end of the bolt, was also too soft for the dremel/screwdriver method..

OP: I've boughten whole bikes with good suntour components for 5-50 bucks fairly often, maybe that's an option for you? Also some french bikes with decent Hurets and such in the same price range.

3alarmer 

...the advantage of using Suntour derailleurs on something like this, (besides the cash you save over the original Jubilee stuff),
is in function. They just really do shift better. They turn up pretty regularly at our co-op here in NorCal, so if you have anything
similar to a bike co-op nearby, it;s worth looking. Nice bikes, sounds like you are already emotionally invested.

There's nothing wrong with just taking one of the claw mount rear derailleurs and hanging it on your dropout in terms of function.
Sometimes that's the easiest and most efficient way to deal with an integral dropout hanger that has the tab in the wrong spot.

Another approach is to simply find another French rear derailleur that will work with the hangar tab position you have.



Works fine, not as pretty as a Jubilee. But there's another bike around here somewhere with a Suntour and a claw on it that also works fine.

Get somebody to look at those old French bars before you put them back on, they lack reinforcement in the center and can fail under heavy use.

unworthy1

if your GJ has a Huret drop-out, the stop (notch) will be at a different position than the standard stop used for Campy and SunTour RDs. You'll have to deal with that if you use any of the non-Huret RDs (all good recomendations, BTW) suggested.
Check the archives for threads about how to alter the Huret DO so it can be used with other brand RDs. There are some clever kludges out there to copy...

But here's another angle: the Shimano Titlist and Crane RDs did not require a stop (notch) in the dropout, so they are the go-to replacement when you have this problem. Not quite as good shifters as SunTours of the same era, but not bad.

Velocivixen

@ wrk101 - yes, Portland has many coops as you know. They are my friends! Good to know on the removable claw. I don't own a metal vice, but this would be a fantastic reason to go get one.
@RaleighSport - my idea exactly! I've been looking on CL to perhaps find a moto of similar vintage and use it for parts. I'm not in a huge hurry, but I am going to switch the bars back.
Here are a few photos:


First picture is right when I bought it, 2nd & 3rd are of course rear derailleur setup, and 4th is current. It's just alright. I noticed immediately when I mounted the new bars that they felt "wide" and less responsive than the original bars, however the bike is a bit big for me, so that's why I thought a swept back bar would compensate a little. I rarely ride this bike any more since I spent a bunch of money "fixing it up"!. I used to stare at it adoringly and LOVED to ride it, but now it just hangs in the garage....I will definitely put the old stem/bars back on, likely use Fizik Microtek in black, and install either a B17 Special in Honey or maybe just a black B17 (opinions?). The shifters will be bar end - I was able to get Suntour down tube cable stop at coop in order to mount the shifters to bar ends. Coops are great!
Thanks!

RaleighSport

Try recycling centers and salvage yards, I've had very good luck with both.. usually no keepers but often bikes with good components go there to die.

Velocivixen

@ unworthy1 - the dropout "stop" is at the 4:00 o'clock position when you're looking at the bike from the drive train side. The current Shimano derailleur has nothing special going on in regard to mounting or routing, etc. It's just your straight forward rear derailleur as far as I can see. I did not remove the thing though.
As you might notice from the rear chain tension screw (is that what those screws are called? They enter from the rear of the dropout and let you know that your rear axle is in far enough?) has a nut on the inside of the dropout. That's because those holes were stripped out and too big for the 2 sizes of screws I found, so Used the smaller size and put a small nut on the inside to hold it in place. Someone wanted to "re-tap" the hole to bigger size, but I was afraid it would break, so said "no". Anyway I want to get this baby fun to ride again! I will be asking other questions in the near future about crankset fit and axle length.

Velocivixen

@RaleighSport - yeah I've got my eyes open. Being Portland bikes for sale are everywhere. I live on the west side so I'm close to some "further out" locations that I'm willing to go to so prices are lower further out. Someone told me about a Goodwill that buys abandoned bikes which people leave on the front of city buses. The bus company donates the bikes to Goodwill and they are priced by weight, so heavier bikes are deemed not as good and go for CHEAP! So lots of potential for steel bikes going for cheap. The coops in Portland are a wealth of help. I've called before asking about Suntour derailleurs, and they'll check and even hold it for me until I arrive. I just bought a Suntour XC 7000 Sport - perfect condition for $8 recently!

oddjob2

Since the subject or Suntour vs. Huret has been vetted, I am providing input to your prospective vise purchase. If you do buy a vise, don't buy new and don't go small. The old made in the USA forged ones last forever.
I just replaced the green Starrett Athol 613, 3 1/2" jaws, 5" spread, with the larger Columbian. Actually the Athol is big enough, but the profit from the sale made the Columbian free.

unworthy1

yes, the Huret DO has the notch at '4' where all the others have the stop at '7'. This is why your current Shimano RD shows the body rotated so far forward (CCW) cause there is no contact with the stop that it's supposed to hit at '7' and the only thing keeping it from rolling all the way till it hits '4' is the chain tension and spring pivot tension, plus the jockey wheel will hit the sprockets first.
I'd be surprised if you get optimal shifting with this set-up...might be "acceptable", but only cause you don't know what you're missing.
I'd really look to fit a homemade tabbed washer to the RD/DO or get yourself a Crane RD...last choice would be to drill / tap and fit a grub screw to the DO notch since that is really fussy machine-work, but it has been done.
Somebody had made a nice e-file with the directions for fabricating your own tabbed washer, a little bit of work but do-able with basic shop tools...it was a fine thing and if I had that link handy I'd link u up.