Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Quick release levers on steel frames

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Quick release levers on steel frames

Old 06-29-14, 01:01 PM
  #1  
kasperbs
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quick release levers on steel frames

I had a first ride on my steel frame today, and at one point when I had to set off from a stand still and put pressure on the right pedal, the chain tension managed to pull the right side of the rear wheel half way out of the campy dropouts, so the wheel wasn't centered in the frame. I put it back and tensioned the quick release lever as I used to, but it happened again. So I tightened it a lot, and that helped.

Do steel frames need metal quick release levers? Mine has a plastic nut and I'm thinking that might be why it's slipping pretty easy on the steel surface.
kasperbs is offline  
Old 06-29-14, 01:11 PM
  #2  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,208

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 466 Times in 356 Posts
There are decades of history of quick-releases on steel frames. It's well-known that there is a correct way to tighten them. Here is one good set of instructions:

How To Use Bicycle Quick Releases
Road Fan is offline  
Old 06-29-14, 01:16 PM
  #3  
wrk101
Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Western NC
Posts: 23,247

Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more

Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1138 Post(s)
Liked 678 Times in 479 Posts
Multi-speed or fixed gear?

+1 to the "leave a mark on your hand" guide. If it does not leave a mark, its too loose.

Last edited by wrk101; 06-29-14 at 02:32 PM.
wrk101 is offline  
Old 06-29-14, 01:17 PM
  #4  
busdriver1959
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 804
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 3 Posts
There are two different types of QR, internal cam and external cam. A vintage Campy QR is the internal type, you can't see the cam itself. A lot of aftermarket QRs are external cam along with the newest Campy ones, you can see the cam. External cams don't seem to have the same clamping force as internal cams and shouldn't be used on horizontal dropouts. Go with a vintage internal cam.
busdriver1959 is offline  
Old 06-29-14, 01:22 PM
  #5  
busdriver1959
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 804
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 3 Posts
Also, use the middle of the palm of your hand to close the lever. Immediately after closing, look at your palm. If you can't see an imprint of the lever, you need to open it, tighten the nut a little more and try again. Keep trying until you see the imprint.
busdriver1959 is offline  
Old 06-29-14, 03:07 PM
  #6  
Old Yeller
Senior Member
 
Old Yeller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 400

Bikes: 1987 Trek 1500, 1989 Pinarello Montello, 1998 Trek 7000 MTB

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
The "plastic nut" just a plastic cover over a metal nut. The key to a quick release skewers success on a steel frame is it must be made of steel. Both the nut and cam need to be made of steel, not aluminum to get enough bite into the dropouts. After that, clamping force is next of importance.
Old Yeller is offline  
Old 06-29-14, 04:00 PM
  #7  
jimmuller 
What??? Only 2 wheels?
 
jimmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Posts: 13,418

Bikes: 73 Raleigh Carlton Gran Sport, 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 87 Centurion Ironman Expert, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10

Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1214 Post(s)
Liked 547 Times in 209 Posts
If the dropouts (DOs) aren't parallel because the frame was bent or because someone widened the rear to accommodate a wider hub or simply because it wasn't well-made, then a QR skewer can have trouble holding. Take it by a decent shop and have them check it. Or just tighten a bolt onto each side and make sure it points at the other.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
jimmuller is offline  
Old 06-29-14, 04:47 PM
  #8  
Ol Danl
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 286

Bikes: 1977 Raleigh Record, 1987 Schwinn Prelude, 1971 Raleigh Record, 1988 Schwinn Traveler, 1967 (?) Carlton Super Course, 1959 Huffy Sportsman 3 speed, 1972 Raleigh Super Course, yet another 70-something Raleigh Record

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Are you sure your axle is not protruding slightly through the dropout? I tightened one several times one day, then finally realized that was the problem on my right rear. It's gotta be inside the dropout a little.
Ol Danl is offline  
Old 06-29-14, 05:38 PM
  #9  
jimmuller 
What??? Only 2 wheels?
 
jimmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Posts: 13,418

Bikes: 73 Raleigh Carlton Gran Sport, 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 87 Centurion Ironman Expert, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10

Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1214 Post(s)
Liked 547 Times in 209 Posts
Originally Posted by Ol Danl View Post
Are you sure your axle is not protruding slightly through the dropout?
Good point. Just a bit of clarification...

The axle doesn't really have to protrude past the edge of the DO, just go far enough into the DO so as not to slip up or down. If it protrudes past the outer edge of the DO at all it might stick out so far that the skewer clamps onto the axle instead of the DO. This means the bearing cones aren't positioned correctly so that the axle is too far to one side. When one side doesn't go in far enough the other side might stick out too far.

One cause of this could be that someone removed both cones from the axle when cleaning the bearings, and didn't quite get them in the same place when putting them back on. If you ever loosen both cones, measure the distance from the locknut outer edge to the axle end so you can get them back on in the same place.

Another likely cause is switching a wheel between bikes which require a RD claw vs. having an integrated hanger on the DO. Curiously, this is rarely discussed here in C&V.

Forged DOs with an integrated hanger are thicker than stamped DOs without a hanger. Stamped DOs have to be thinner because the axle has to go through the claw which isn't used on forged DOs. But that extra thickness is all on the right side. So the axle has to be positioned further to the right (or the bearing cones must be positioned further to the left on the axle) for a claw used with stamped DOs. Unless the axle is quite short a wheel will work on one or the other but not both unless you reposition the bearing cones as required.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
jimmuller is offline  
Old 06-29-14, 05:40 PM
  #10  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,775
Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2530 Post(s)
Liked 1,455 Times in 1,097 Posts
Originally Posted by Ol Danl View Post
Are you sure your axle is not protruding slightly through the dropout? I tightened one several times one day, then finally realized that was the problem on my right rear. It's gotta be inside the dropout a little.
Yes, set the wheel in the frame and remove the quick release. Look for the axle passing beyond the dropout face(s). A number of times I have seen this, most often with Campagnolo gran sport dropouts, (they are thinner) or the Vertical ones which are also thinner. If this is the case the quick release will be not providing the proper force.
repechage is offline  
Old 06-30-14, 11:47 AM
  #11  
kasperbs
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Yes, set the wheel in the frame and remove the quick release. Look for the axle passing beyond the dropout face(s). A number of times I have seen this, most often with Campagnolo gran sport dropouts, (they are thinner) or the Vertical ones which are also thinner. If this is the case the quick release will be not providing the proper force.
Thanks for all the replies. I do think I probably was a bit sloppy with the tension, coming from a fixed dropout position of the rear wheel. The tip with the axle protruding was a good one. I just checked and it is not protruding. The edge is about 1 mm inside on both sides.

I will also keep a look out for a genuine steel skewer. It also looks better on an older frame ;-)
kasperbs is offline  
Old 06-30-14, 02:14 PM
  #12  
kasperbs
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Went on a short ride today, but the problem is very persistent. Especially when starting in the small ring. I also suspect that the chainline in that gear is pulling at an angle, and the momentum very easily pulls the right side out of the dropout. I'm running a Hollowtech II Shimano bottom bracket with a 9-speed compact Tiagra Chainset and a 10-speed cassette in the back. So when in the small ring and the bottom part of the cassette, the chainline is pretty angled. I definately need to try a pair steel skewers.
kasperbs is offline  
Old 06-30-14, 03:31 PM
  #13  
Reynolds 
Passista
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,392

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 799 Post(s)
Liked 525 Times in 292 Posts
Originally Posted by Ol Danl View Post
Are you sure your axle is not protruding slightly through the dropout? I tightened one several times one day, then finally realized that was the problem on my right rear. It's gotta be inside the dropout a little.
Ideally, the axle shouldn't protrude past the dropout; Shimano QRs, however, have 3mm recesses on both sides to ensure clamping even if the axle protrudes a little.
Reynolds is offline  
Old 06-30-14, 03:46 PM
  #14  
jimmuller 
What??? Only 2 wheels?
 
jimmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Posts: 13,418

Bikes: 73 Raleigh Carlton Gran Sport, 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 87 Centurion Ironman Expert, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10

Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1214 Post(s)
Liked 547 Times in 209 Posts
Originally Posted by kasperbs View Post
I definately need to try a pair steel skewers.
I'd be shocked, shocked I tell you, if the skewers you have aren't steel. Anything else just wouldn't be strong enough to work. Well, they could be titanium, or some elaborate high-tech alloy of manganese and unobtanium, or a neutrino/positron composite.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
jimmuller is offline  
Old 06-30-14, 03:54 PM
  #15  
shoota 
Senior Member
 
shoota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Stillwater, OK
Posts: 7,852
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1740 Post(s)
Liked 533 Times in 368 Posts
I had this problem once too. The fix for me was to clean the inside face of the dropouts and the outside of the axle REALLY well and then to use as much closing force on the skewer as I could muster. Never slipped again after that.
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
shoota is offline  
Old 06-30-14, 03:59 PM
  #16  
kasperbs
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jimmuller View Post
I'd be shocked, shocked I tell you, if the skewers you have aren't steel. Anything else just wouldn't be strong enough to work. Well, they could be titanium, or some elaborate high-tech alloy of manganese and unobtanium, or a neutrino/positron composite.
My wheels are Campagnolo Zondas and the skewers are stated as "cold-forged aluminium". I think I have found a spare skewer which is pretty heavy and feels like steel. I will try that tomorrow.
kasperbs is offline  
Old 06-30-14, 04:31 PM
  #17  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 23,740

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3040 Post(s)
Liked 2,167 Times in 1,293 Posts
Originally Posted by busdriver1959 View Post
There are two different types of QR, internal cam and external cam. A vintage Campy QR is the internal type, you can't see the cam itself. A lot of aftermarket QRs are external cam along with the newest Campy ones, you can see the cam. External cams don't seem to have the same clamping force as internal cams and shouldn't be used on horizontal dropouts. Go with a vintage internal cam.
Originally Posted by kasperbs View Post
My wheels are Campagnolo Zondas and the skewers are stated as "cold-forged aluminium". I think I have found a spare skewer which is pretty heavy and feels like steel. I will try that tomorrow.
Yes, the Zonda quick releases are the modern, exposed-cam type intended for use with vertical dropouts. Replace them with e.g. aftermarket Shimano enclosed-cam quick releases and you should be good.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 06-30-14, 07:22 PM
  #18  
Lascauxcaveman 
Senior Member
 
Lascauxcaveman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Posts: 7,912

Bikes: A green one, "Ragleigh," or something.

Mentioned: 191 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1589 Post(s)
Liked 511 Times in 297 Posts
Originally Posted by Ol Danl View Post
Are you sure your axle is not protruding slightly through the dropout? I tightened one several times one day, then finally realized that was the problem on my right rear. It's gotta be inside the dropout a little.
This has happened to me more than once. I was a bit sloppy when I first learned how to service hubs. Although, I do have some QRs that can tolerate a little bit of axle sticking out past the dropout, as they are cupped a bit to accommodate that.
__________________
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Trek 400 ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
Lascauxcaveman is offline  
Old 06-30-14, 07:35 PM
  #19  
Lanovran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 472
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I had the same issue once on an older steel frame bike. When I looked closely at the nut on the quick-release, I noticed that the "teeth" on the surface of it were worn down and not gripping well. I replaced the skewers with a new pair with a stronger "bite," and the problem was solved.
Lanovran is offline  
Old 07-01-14, 04:55 PM
  #20  
20grit
Curmudgeon in Training
 
20grit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rural Retreat, VA
Posts: 1,962

Bikes: 1974 Gazelle Champion Mondial, 2010 Cannondale Trail SL, 1988 Peugeot Nice, 1992ish Stumpjumper Comp,1990's Schwinn Moab

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
I will be the guy to warn of over tightening a skewer. I snapped my rear one on a ride once. Luckily, it was right after a small crash and I was checking things out on the bike. If I had been moving, things wouldn't have been pretty. The skewer needs to have been designed for the forces you are applying to it.
20grit is offline  
Old 07-01-14, 07:47 PM
  #21  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,208

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 466 Times in 356 Posts
Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
Ideally, the axle shouldn't protrude past the dropout; Shimano QRs, however, have 3mm recesses on both sides to ensure clamping even if the axle protrudes a little.
This sounds more like it! Between the axle end and the QR is a conical spring - it needs a few millimeters gap to keep from being crushed.
Road Fan is offline  
Old 07-01-14, 10:09 PM
  #22  
Reynolds 
Passista
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,392

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 799 Post(s)
Liked 525 Times in 292 Posts
Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
This sounds more like it! Between the axle end and the QR is a conical spring - it needs a few millimeters gap to keep from being crushed.
As you say, the springs are conical, so they compress very thin.
Reynolds is offline  
Old 07-02-14, 07:48 AM
  #23  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,775
Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2530 Post(s)
Liked 1,455 Times in 1,097 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Yes, the Zonda quick releases are the modern, exposed-cam type intended for use with vertical dropouts. Replace them with e.g. aftermarket Shimano enclosed-cam quick releases and you should be good.
I am intrigued by the styling of the exposed cam quick releases, but for functionality I like the tried and true C&V era Campagnolo units.
repechage is offline  
Old 07-02-14, 04:47 PM
  #24  
Reynolds 
Passista
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,392

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 799 Post(s)
Liked 525 Times in 292 Posts
Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
As you say, the springs are conical, so they compress very thin.
I checked it out today on a Shimano QR, the springs measure 1mm fully compressed, so if the axle protrudes 1mm the QR would still clamp.
Reynolds is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
SoldSpartan
Bicycle Mechanics
5
08-04-18 03:02 PM
lightreign
Bicycle Mechanics
2
11-04-17 10:17 AM
vascoboy
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
4
09-01-16 08:10 PM
Brand00d
Road Cycling
13
07-22-13 05:44 AM
bluefoxicy
Bicycle Mechanics
3
05-26-11 08:32 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.