The C&V Test!



If this happens, it's not C&V appropriate!



verktyg

Chas.

This bike would fail your test. Not C&V?

A bike can be classic OR vintage as well as both.

This is vaguely on-topic, but, since carbon fiber has been mentioned . . .First there was the death stem(ava,pivo). Then the death fork(viscount). Now the death frame(carbon fiber). Are we witnessing the evolution or devolution of the bicycle? -my comments are made in jest.

Someone will dig this quote up in fifteen years when they are refinishing their Colnago Extreme Power or C59.

and laugh.

Also, tell me this Rabobank C50 of Sven Nys isn't a classic waiting to be recognized.

Totally defined the genre at the time....

Some are just old bikes.

The tubes would pull out of the lugs instead, right? Couldn't resist.

Good thing in jest. The busted or failure of carbon frame thing is NO different than steel or aluminum classics. Take your choice, some may just be weaker than others. Could be caused by engineering, construction, application (incl. abuse) or environment. Personally, I like all types and really dig the evolution of CF. And about V-count forks, AVA 'death' stems.... send them to me

That's what she said ...

I thought it just means old.

+1 To me the word "vintage" implies nostalgia, rather than quality.

Has more to do with wine making than anything else. RE: "vintner", etc.

But if you want to sell your old ebay item for more, be sure to add the word to the description.



vintage: definition of vintage in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)

Oldest ones are just over 40 years old now, so the Graftek easily passes the "sniff test" for what's C&V....
BTW, It's highly unlikely that the frame tubes on the Graftek will shatter/asplode from a lateral hit as show in verktyg's pics, as the Gratek frame tubes are actually a composite construction using aluminum tubes, wrapped with CF:

......so it ain't so crispy as people think they are. Sure, maybe still not as strong as Fe or full Al, but certainly stronger than just pure CF.
The glue joints will most likely fail before any tubes break on an owner.....

Hi bicyclridr4life, admittedly, my interests lie in the Italian racing bike section of this forum and I only tend to respond to those posts now. I can still appreciate a good bike that falls outside my area of interest. You say that your bikes generate little interest, and I'm reading into that, that there may be little written response to your postings, but there may be more interest in your bikes than may be evident. When I read a thread that is outside my comfort zone of expertise, I can still understand why another bike enthusiast is interested in that particular bike.

Please don't be disheartened by your perceived disinterest by others in your bikes, it's probably that there may be less understanding of the bikes you own and ride. I know, my cycling history had it's beginnings in bikes I could afford so I can appreciate their worth and appreciate your ongoing interest in value for money bikes.

I also suggest that it takes a more knowledgable and appreciative person to be able to recognise the quality of components within your spectrum of interest than it does at the 'Italian end' of the spectrum. I know that if it reads Colnago, Pinarello, DeRosa, Campagnolo Nuovo/Super/C-Record, Dura-Ace, Superbe Pro, Cinelli, Mavic, Columbus SL/SLX/etc, Reynolds 531 it's there's no thinking involved - they're just quality within my spectrum - they're safe. I don't have to examine, experiment, trial - think.

As for the people who take the time to put down your bikes in a destructive and negative way, unfortunately that can't be helped in the forum environment. (I must add that this particular forum is very supportive and positive.) You know better and, I'm suggesting, more forum members of the silent majority know better as well.

As your name suggests, your a bike rider for life and that what really counts.

While I enjoy modern bikes as much as older bikes, the two are distinct in my mind. Classic-Vintage bikes are distinct in having horizontal top-tubes, 1inch threaded steerers with quill stems and a square taper or earlier bottom brackets. Modern bikes have compact frames, theadless steerers, and modern cranks with integral spindles.

The late eighties and early nineties bikes can be the best of the Classic-Vintage models with seven or eight cogs, great steel tubesets and a wide range of shifters. L'Eroica rules are too strict and are not fully enforced in Chianti or England. Plenty of important bikes were built after 1987.

Cycling seems to be reembracing some of the features of Classic-Vintage models. Some builders are offering steel frames that accept 700x28 tires among other features that seem to have disappear for a while.

Well said, Gary.

Heh. I meant the compliment for post #114 . Vertical top tubes can make mounting/dismounting quite a dangerous affair.

How is that stressful? I think it's very down to earth talk about specialized preferences.

I like that they don't seem to be interested in powder-coating bikes made by skilled craftsmen in small numbers, and that most want to preserve the experience of riding an older bike as it was. There aren't many such bikes out there, true. But why is that a problem?

It's easier for me to imagine a Chevette funny car than a funny K-car! What a thought!

Please show us the results when you tried that test with one of your 753R or ELOS frames. Mine are not available for testing.

True enough. And there are a bunch of very knowledgeable guys on there. Most of them are very friendly and helpful too.
It's not stressful. For me.

Must be referring to the bike in his avatar:

John, that's a trike not a bike!



verktyg

Chas.

I think, while swinging the Graftek toward the post, the tubes would slide out of all the lug sockets and the bike would fall to pieces, without making any contact with the post. So, it would fail the test. Afterwards, I would fit the pieces together again and ride the bike away. So, it would pass the test. Given this fail-pass duality I would then rebadge/rename the bike the Graftek Quantum. Also, verktyg and iab would both win their respective argument.

The only failures in Graftek frames that I'm aware of were in the the adhesive holding the tubes into the lugs so your predictions could happen.

The adhesive failures started happening while the frames were still being produced. It would be years before adequate adhesives would be developed. Take the glued together Raleighs of the 1990s foe examples.

The Graftek top and down tubes would probably bounce of of the pole while all of the other frame parts went flying!

What argument, I have no dog in this fight!

verktyg

Chas.