What argument, I have no dog in this fight!



Hello verktyg, my comments were meant as lighthearted humor, using a lot of artistic license. also, you may have misunderstood in what sense I used the word "argument" so, your dog is safe for now.

The internet indicates that anything before 2000 with a diamond frame is "classic" and anything that looks remotely old and is covered in rust is "vintage".

Off Topic..nothing like the red of the Atomic Red Sled's (207) and the neon of volkl renntiger (210)

If I had gone to the Gertrude Stein School of Engineering(a rose is a rose is a rose/a frame failure is a frame failure is a frame failure)I would agree with you. BTW-I also like and use some of the parts and materials that I joked about.

+1

place seems 'normal' to me - all welcome

'87 when SR went out of production, and indexed shifting came in.

Am I expanding my horizons? Is a San Marco Concord Sprint saddle CV? Feels like it to me, though its from the mid 1990's.

I'm glad to see this has NOT turned into a race to the bottom, to see who can be the most exclusionary and rigid in defining CV.

Cheers, Eric

No. What you'll find is that C&V bicycles are a lot like car clubs used to be. When the old Model A crowd started to have friction with the younger motor heads in many communities they split up. The muscle car and rod guys had a separate club from the older OEM crowd that would argue over a hose clamp being original. What happened in many communities is that as both groups struggled to maintain membership, and many clubs folded. The older crowd dies off and there is ever less and less interest in cars as they really get older.

The reality is that you can ride a bike into your sixties even seventies, however a bad fall could really set you back. There are people on bikes into their 80s in some European and Asian cities. However, most of us like what we "saw" in our youth even if it wasn't the best kit one could have, it was what we wanted then. The reality is that the US is quickly aging and "growing" population. You'll notice over the next couple of years that many in the C&V community stop riding bikes as health complications prevent them from riding, or caring for an ill spouse, or as people just start to die off.

The danger of segregating is that pretty soon that specific community that only focuses on vintage (pre-1900) aluminum bicycles becomes a community of just one.

The reality is that 80s bike boom stuff is vintage and classic, and 99% of cyclists aren't even interested in anything prior to 9-speed and clipless. Think about it like this, clipless pedals are now classic and vintage. Lemond's Scott Aerobar is vintage and Classic. You can buy a TdF steel bike that was actually ridden in a stage for cheaper than modern carbon. Heck, you can buy high-zoot modern carbon for a price now that would have purchased a home during the time of pre-war bikes.

No.

It means a seller on eBay added several hundred dollars to his Buy it Now price!

I thought I was vintage, but it was just a lack of deodorant.

Classic & Vintage, not Classic or Vintage. To me this implies level of quality need be necessary. If we are talking about top tier road racing, touring, track machines I get excited. When the conversation flies towards big box store stuff; huffy, road master, the bottom half of the Schwinn line up etc. I lose interest immediately as in my eyes the "classic" element of this equation has left the building. But C&V is a matter of perspective and as such an open forum like this one is great. We all have the right to choose whatever thread we want to read/join, so I am happy with that.

If we are going to be more strict about defining C&V, then we should adhere to period correct communication technologies.

Doesn't matter to me. Maybe the in between era should be call "the perfection of the steel bicycle"

But seriously, steel, aluminum, ti, carbon fiber. If people can't address things properly in the title...cut their typing finger off.

N.B. It's now a Google group.

Congrats to the forum for a seamless transition in a 1 year old thread.

It's a timeless topic that re-emerged in the twinkling of an eye. lol

Now that I've posted, the thread is free to get ignored and slide down the pages.

That's classic!

C&V can't be going modern when we did such a great job of reviving a vintage thread!

It's funny we have these debates when one of the most popular threads is about modernizing/upgrading old frames with stis and carbon bits (which I enjoy). Maybe we shouldn't project our own conceived ideas of what is classic and/or vintage and enjoy the fact that older bikes are still relevant and being ridden.

How do you define "cyclists," and how did you arrive at your 99% number? I think of cyclist as a person who rides a bicycle. I see a lot of people riding old bicycles, certainly more than 1% of cyclists. Maybe you're limiting your definition to people who ride for fitness and have a minimum level of speed, strength, etc. We have a lot of bike commuters here in NYC. They ride old bikes, and they are not trying to improve their times by studying training techniques or by improving their equipment.

I have to disagree on these definitions. Vintage is age based, classic is timeless. Your '51 CCM is without doubt vint-age, but whether it's a classic is a personal perspective

according to these guys ....


this is the future:

Read a little deeper...

Although vintage denotes an age / year as it does with wine, in common use it gets used as a descriptor that goes beyond age to denote or imply a certain level of quality / excellence.

My CCM was vinted 1951 but it was a very entry level bicycle, if you live in Canada bikes from this era are seen as being classics of bygone days when CCM was a well known Canadian manufacturer who supplied most of us with our first bicycles.

Classic sets the standard for certain goods and items... some goods and items from bygone days have not stood the test of time or endured.

My SVEA 123 camp / backpacking stove is a classic design who's history goes back 100 years and is a design that has stood the test of time as they are still made to this day with very few changes to the original, and the original is so good people still seek them out.

For the most part, this group seems to be really into steel racing + touring bikes from the 60s-80s with a few outliers (guys into classic aluminum, crabon, mountain bikes, etc). Very little love for muscle bikes, balloon tire bikes, tank bikes, BMX etc.

About 10 years ago I remember wondering if anyone would be pining over race bikes from the late 90s etc (which are now pushing 2 decades old). Sure enough, you can check the various "hot or not" threads on the 41 and see props to guys "keeping it real" with a late 90s Ti bike... So I guess there will need to be a new thread for those vintages. Or is there space here?

Just like music from one period being called "Oldies" and another "Classic Rock" etc, or car guys into "hot rods" vs "muscle cars"... I guess we have claim to "Classic and Vintage" and the folks into bikes from other eras will have to define what they call themselves.

Just about all of us can appreciate a nice bike no matter when or where it was made.