Well, Uncle Troll, I am saying comparatively speaking Klein's hold their value as well as many other manufactures bikes. You do realize that Klein made high end and low end bikes, so your example is really no big deal. Yes great deals can be found and we hear about them here quit often, does not mean that the regular going price for say a Miyata 1000 is $50.

I don't know about MTBs, but Klein didn't make any low-end road bikes - they generally had three versions for every model year; a DA, an Ultegra, and a 105... there were also some special function versions like Kirsten for women, and Performance for touring. They were always small production frames with an appeal to a niche market.

Classic? As in: Serving as a standard, model, or guide? No.... I don't think so. But it might be considered collectable and is certainly desirable.

For an aluminum bike, you are darn skippy Klein is a standard, model and guide.

Can an aluminum bike be a standard, model or guide for all bikes? Absolutely. Unless of course one has the silly steel is real bias. Then no.

I think if I was going to look for a sub-group of bicycle standard.... as in "Classic Aluminum" I wouldn't rule Klein completely out. However.... I don't see aluminum being discontinued as a bicycle material anytime soon. I'd need a crystal ball to guess at what will be considered to have been the standard for aluminum. Honestly.... I think much better examples of a standard of/for aluminum bicycles could be purchased TODAY.

Yes aluminum can reach the same level of standard... as steel bicycles have. But only (like steel bikes) after they are no longer standard production models. Currently.... aluminum is pretty much ubiquitous. It would be difficult to believe that these aluminum bicycles have reached their apex of quality.... OR that it was reached in 2004... and NOT 2014.

Steel bicycles however are different. Because they are no longer in real mass production. The old steel bikes do ride and/or feel different than modern bicycles. The quality ones made in previous decades are the "standard" or "classic" bicycles that are appreciated and collected. Enough people appreciate the old "real steel" to make them collectable.

You still haven't provided any numbers to support your claim that Kleins "hold their value pretty well". Two bidders fighting over an item can make that item appear to be worth more than it actually is. Let's see if people still bid up the prices 10 years from now. есть хороший день, дерьмо голову

The "Seinfeld Klein" was the personal bike of the actor who played Kramer.

Doubtful, Michael Richards is 6' 3"? It's doubtful if it would even fit Jerry who is 5' 11". It might fit Jason Alexander, who is 5' 5", or Julia Louis-Dreyfus who is 5' 3".,,,,BD

I passed on one of those at a flea market. He said $100, then after I had looked the bike over he went UP $50? I gave him a dirty look and walked away without saying a word.,,,,BD

Soooo, did any Klein road bikes come in a frosty silver with Shimano Sante? The reason I ask is there is one that fits me at a pawn shop around here. They have $599 on it, but he wanted to me to offer a price I would pay to get it out of the store. This is the same shop where I found my Lemond a month or so ago. Also the same shop that offered me $50 for a pristine Electra Amsterdam 9 speed, so I would honestly like to lowball and see if they go for it. Principal, ya know Some ridiculous former owner put bike shop bumper stickers on both sides of the top tube, and there's a small ding in the top tube just forward of the cable guide. Overall it is clean/shiny and looks to have minimal mileage.,,,,BD

This is NOT the bike in question, but the frame is the spitting image. Same color and graphics. Yep, it has downtube shifters.

https://twowheelsandotherthings.com/w...9/dscn1444.jpg

Why?

They make a Mustang today. Are you saying a 1965 Mustang is not a classic?

I believe Klein has its place in the history of modern bicycles. Klein did pioneer the use of Aluminium in modern road & mountain bikes in the late 1970's and proved AL is a great material for frames.

The Classic Car Club of America defines a CCCA Classic as follows: A CCCA Classic is a "fine" or "distinctive" automobile, either American or foreign built, produced between 1925 and 1948.

Of course "MY definition" of a "classic muscle car" would be a little different than the CCCA. And I think it's great that we have such a democratic language that we can all use differently to confuse everything and generate internet arguments. But... since muscle cars are still being produced... it would be difficult to predict that the "best" highest level of quality and THE standard for which all muscle cars are judged... won't be produced at some point in the future.

There was a sea change in the manufacturing processes of automobiles following WW2. Cars like those made prior to the 50's will never be reproduced. Processes and cars haven't seen such significant changes... since 1965 (at least... according to the CCCA).

Meanwhile.... my 2014 aluminum Trek.... is pretty impressive. And, if next year aluminum bicycles are abandoned for say.... weather proof cardboard bikes. I might have a classic in the garage (my real-steel classic's are in the basement).

I tend to think that companies that produce both high and low end products, will never become truly a collectible or valuable.

In bikes, take Miyata, Atala, Schwinn, Fuji, Motebecane, and yes Klein for examples. All produce some high, but many more low end bikes, so none of those brands are truly valuable or collectible. But take manufacturers like Colnago, Pinarello, or Look, and they are always collectible and valuable because they are strictly high end.

Works in other areas to. Invicta has some very expensive watchers but also cheapos to, so real watch people don't take them very seriously. BMW runs the risk of becoming just another car company as they make entry level cars now. They dilute their brand. Maserati, which should be BMW's competitor, is considered a step above because it has remained true to itself in only producing high end machines.

Yes. I agree. The brand name has a place in history (as does Schwinn, Rollfast, Kent..... and many others). And although I wouldn't call the OPs 2004 a classic yet..... I do think and had posted (see below) it might be "collectable and is certainly desirable." It's a nice bike!

Actually you have misquoted me several times as common for trolls. I said "seem to hold their value pretty well". It is pretty relative to ones own opinion. Yours of which I could not give a rats ass. Troll on.

Raleigh made everything from clunker to pro team, and the high end Raleighs are collectible (Professional, SBDU). Peugeot same, and PY10s and the like are collectible. Gitane and Bianchi are two other example of full range bike companies whose high end bikes are collectible.

Colango and bikes from similar boutique makers are, admittedly, higher valued as collectibles go. So maybe it depends on one's definition of "collectible". A collector-condition PY10 with all the original gold jewelry is probably a >$1,500 bike and appreciating, which meets my sense of the term.

Maybe that's worth a chat. What do we mean when we say a bike is "collectible"?

On Kleins, if there are older Klein models that are regularly selling for over $1,000 and that price is rising, then I'd call them at least somewhat collectible.

No doubt, most bike companies had a decent high end model or two, but I think if two guys are talking bikes and one says he has a Raleigh and the other a Colnago, who will automatically get the most ooohs and ahhhhs? I think that most guys with say $1000 to spend, would go with the Colnago instead of a top-of-the-line Raleigh. It just has the better reputation throughout their line.

Tell someone you have a Maserati they are automatically impressed, while the Beemer guy has to explain that his is not a 135. A Rolex gets instant recognition to, no explanation needed.

Not trying to be a snob, (and all this is IMHO!) but some things are just collectible due to their reputation and not dabbling in the low/mid end , while others who run the gamut from low to high end usually are not...

I am having a difficult time understanding that myself. I have come across some aluminum frames, one was a Giant Cypress DX I saw at a local salvage yard, which had no corrosion at all. It could still be built up into a decent winter bike with the right parts. Recently, I test rode a Specialized Allez, their most basic model road bike. It handled better, felt smoother, and seemed far more efficient than the Raleigh Marathon (which I sold to a commuter) I had recently. The only real difference I've found between steel and aluminum is that steel stands up better to bending, welding, and shaping. Although steel is easier to work with when frame building, aluminum is going to offer better corrosion resistance. As long as an aluminum bike has not been involved in any accidents, it will last for many decades, just like a bike with a steel frame. The feel of a bike, when riding, is going to depend on its build and geometry more than the materials it was made of.

Carbon frames are the thing now days. The only concern I have for them, is that the material likely to be less forgiving than steel or aluminum. For example: With a steel frame, the stays can be cold-set to accommodate a wider rear wheel set if one wishes to convert from a 5-speed hub to a 9-speed. This cannot be done with aluminum or carbon. However, it is getting increasingly difficult to find new components for old steel frames that were designed specifically for 27" wheels and tires, and the selection is extremely limited. For those reasons, I will recommend a recent-model 700c aluminum bike over an old steel bike for general riding. Short hops or long miles, it will be far easier to tune and maintain the modern aluminum or carbon frame bike than the older one made of steel because the parts are readily available, and the local shops know how to service them.

Will the aluminum bikes be collectable in the years to come? Well, I think much of that will depend on people's experience with them. I personally like bikes with bright and interesting colors and patterns, but don't care for gray or black; at least not on a collector's standpoint.

Collectible doesn't necessarily correlate with good riding, practical, long lasting, etc.

Regarding Sante group, not that I know of. The bike in your link is a Performance model... the touring version - they sold a lot of them as bare frames... 1990 +/- a year.

Klein got in to the business with custom frames and continued offering custom models almost until the end, custom geometry, custom paint, custom cable routing... comparing them to Giant is just not valid on any level.

Who compared them to Giant? NM, figured it out. That corrosion resistance doesn't seem very apparent when you live in a coastal area, and have had to use a hammer and thin blade screwdriver to try and knock the cable ferrules out of the frame through the cable slots in the stops. I don't build an aluminum bike anymore without coating the ferrules liberally with grease.,,,,BD

We're you riding this through Highland Park early this year? I saw one just like it while driving.

When I worked at the shop, a really nice high end XT equipped Klein came in for a tune up. Guess what else they wanted to do? They wanted to install one of these(see below). Thankfully it would not have fit very well, and we talked them out of it. It was just a junky old bike to them, until we let them know it was at least somewhat special. It had pricey flip flop paint on it, that was jam packed with other colors of pearl. It popped in the sun, even though it was dark blue which flipped greenish IIRC. It cleaned up really nice, almost new appearance, and they took it back home. Probably still sitting where they left it 2 years ago, gathering dust once more.,,,,BD

https://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg

I would say all Klein's were high-end, I have never seen one that I would call mid-range or below. Shimano 105 is not low-end.
Of course used prices for anything always vary widely depending on circumstances, but in general Klein's certainly seem to hold their value about as well as anything else, and better than most.