Klein ????
11-10-14, 01:10 AM
#51
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Soooo, did any Klein road bikes come in a frosty silver with Shimano Sante? The reason I ask is there is one that fits me at a pawn shop around here. They have $599 on it, but he wanted to me to offer a price I would pay to get it out of the store. This is the same shop where I found my Lemond a month or so ago. Also the same shop that offered me $50 for a pristine Electra Amsterdam 9 speed, so I would honestly like to lowball and see if they go for it. Principal, ya know
Some ridiculous former owner put bike shop bumper stickers on both sides of the top tube, and there's a small ding in the top tube just forward of the cable guide. Overall it is clean/shiny and looks to have minimal mileage.,,,,BD
This is NOT the bike in question, but the frame is the spitting image. Same color and graphics. Yep, it has downtube shifters.
https://twowheelsandotherthings.com/w...9/dscn1444.jpg
Some ridiculous former owner put bike shop bumper stickers on both sides of the top tube, and there's a small ding in the top tube just forward of the cable guide. Overall it is clean/shiny and looks to have minimal mileage.,,,,BDThis is NOT the bike in question, but the frame is the spitting image. Same color and graphics. Yep, it has downtube shifters.
https://twowheelsandotherthings.com/w...9/dscn1444.jpg
Common codes are:
MONEYTALKS M=1 O=2 ...S=0 etc
MARYLOUISE
BLACKHORSE
VOLKSWAGEN
DAYORNIGHT
NIGHTORDAY
Last edited by Uncle Randy; 11-11-14 at 11:49 AM.
11-10-14, 01:24 AM
#52
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Well, some of us will remember the Klein advertisement with the Porsche. Others will remember the Bicycle Guide (Bicycling was never a good magazine) article with the 16 pound Klein. So the boron reinforced Klein Quantum may well be a collectable bicycle, someday. If they aren't all, you know, broken by then.
Of course, BF considers a 1983 Nishiki pulled from a Dumpster to be a "collectible" bicycle, so the standards are kind of low around here.
Of course, BF considers a 1983 Nishiki pulled from a Dumpster to be a "collectible" bicycle, so the standards are kind of low around here.
11-10-14, 01:40 AM
#53
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Well, some of us will remember the Klein advertisement with the Porsche. Others will remember the Bicycle Guide (Bicycling was never a good magazine) article with the 16 pound Klein. So the boron reinforced Klein Quantum may well be a collectable bicycle, someday. If they aren't all, you know, broken by then.
Of course, BF considers a 1983 Nishiki pulled from a Dumpster to be a "collectible" bicycle, so the standards are kind of low around here.
Of course, BF considers a 1983 Nishiki pulled from a Dumpster to be a "collectible" bicycle, so the standards are kind of low around here.
11-10-14, 01:48 AM
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As an immature member, I am honestly trying to remember if I have accused you of being a troll at some point. If I did, I apologize. Unless it was deserved.
So how about those Kleins, eh?
So how about those Kleins, eh?
11-10-14, 02:20 AM
#55
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I would say all Klein's were high-end, I have never seen one that I would call mid-range or below. Shimano 105 is not low-end.
Of course used prices for anything always vary widely depending on circumstances, but in general Klein's certainly seem to hold their value about as well as anything else, and better than most.
Of course used prices for anything always vary widely depending on circumstances, but in general Klein's certainly seem to hold their value about as well as anything else, and better than most.
Here's a Klein Quantum road bike that's been sitting on ebay for a few days Buy it Now $300
Klein Quantum Road Bike 58 59cm A Classic | eBay
MSRP in 1993 was $1549
Here's a Schwinn World Voyager that sold for $499 a few months ago.
1973 Schwinn World Voyageur Kool Orange Must See | eBay
MSRP in 1973 was $275.
Did the Klein hold it's value better than the Schwinn?
Last edited by Uncle Randy; 11-11-14 at 10:08 AM.
11-10-14, 02:23 AM
#56
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11-10-14, 06:29 AM
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That's one of the most desirable and collectible Kleins. Anything with the MC1 (Mission Control (integrated bar/stem)) and the original fork is worth bucks. My advice is make that bike as original as possible, find original pedals, find dust caps for the cranks etc.
Last edited by miamijim; 11-10-14 at 06:37 AM.
11-10-14, 06:29 AM
#58
Senior Member
Check the price tag for a letter code, Billy Ray. If you can crack the code, you'll know how much the pawn shop has in the bike. Letters that are repeated are probably zeros. Look at some $20 items and see if the first letters are the same. If they are, then the first letter is probably a 1.
Common codes are:
MONEYTALKS M=1 O=2 ...S=0 etc
MARYLOUISE
BLACKHORSE
VOLKSWAGEN
DAYORNIGHT
NIGHTORDAY
Common codes are:
MONEYTALKS M=1 O=2 ...S=0 etc
MARYLOUISE
BLACKHORSE
VOLKSWAGEN
DAYORNIGHT
NIGHTORDAY
__________________
So many bikes, so little dime.
So many bikes, so little dime.
11-10-14, 06:48 AM
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The same pawn shop offered me $50 for a 4 year old $700 bike, so I can only imagine what they gave for the Klein. Probably $25? As for the rest of the post, and the "Billy Ray" reference, I have no earthly idea what you're talking about. It came off as more than a little odd.,,,,BD
A $3000 bike is only worth ~$1,000 after 5 years. That's a fair market value of $1000. If your a Pawn Store and buying you need to make money on your purchase, a purchase that may sit around for a long time. Factor in your profit margin and it's easy to understand why a Pawn Store may not pay a lot for a bike.
Lets say a Pawn store needs to make a profit margin of 20% and fair market value is $1,000. Who pays fair market value at a pawn store? Nobody. So maybe the store anticipates selling it for $800. 20% margin on $800 is $160 the may they could pay is $640.
If I owned a Pawn Store there's no way I'd pay $640 (~20% of MSRP) for a 5 year old $3,000 bike.
11-10-14, 07:00 AM
#60
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I want a rigid early Klein. Please facilitate for me guys. Lime green is just fine.
11-10-14, 10:44 AM
#61
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The $300 one linked on ebay has one fatal flaw: local pickup only.
In addition, the really desirable Kleins IMHO have flamboyant paint schemes, fade, fluorescent, etc. This one on ebay doesn't have it. It is still a nice deal, local pickup only is often where the best deals reside on ebay.
As far as MSRP, the further you go back, the less meaningful it becomes. Early 1970s Paramounts had MSRPs of around $350. 1971 Paramount track bike retailed at $225! I would love to have a container load of those! Meanwhile, a Schwinn Continental retailed for $105 (naturally, thats the bike I got).
In addition, the really desirable Kleins IMHO have flamboyant paint schemes, fade, fluorescent, etc. This one on ebay doesn't have it. It is still a nice deal, local pickup only is often where the best deals reside on ebay.
As far as MSRP, the further you go back, the less meaningful it becomes. Early 1970s Paramounts had MSRPs of around $350. 1971 Paramount track bike retailed at $225! I would love to have a container load of those! Meanwhile, a Schwinn Continental retailed for $105 (naturally, thats the bike I got).
Last edited by wrk101; 11-10-14 at 10:50 AM.
11-10-14, 11:50 AM
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The same pawn shop offered me $50 for a 4 year old $700 bike, so I can only imagine what they gave for the Klein. Probably $25? As for the rest of the post, and the "Billy Ray" reference, I have no earthly idea what you're talking about. It came off as more than a little odd.,,,,BD
Last edited by Uncle Randy; 11-10-14 at 12:31 PM.
11-10-14, 11:50 AM
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The $300 one linked on ebay has one fatal flaw: local pickup only.
In addition, the really desirable Kleins IMHO have flamboyant paint schemes, fade, fluorescent, etc. This one on ebay doesn't have it. It is still a nice deal, local pickup only is often where the best deals reside on ebay.
As far as MSRP, the further you go back, the less meaningful it becomes. Early 1970s Paramounts had MSRPs of around $350. 1971 Paramount track bike retailed at $225! I would love to have a container load of those! Meanwhile, a Schwinn Continental retailed for $105 (naturally, thats the bike I got).
In addition, the really desirable Kleins IMHO have flamboyant paint schemes, fade, fluorescent, etc. This one on ebay doesn't have it. It is still a nice deal, local pickup only is often where the best deals reside on ebay.
As far as MSRP, the further you go back, the less meaningful it becomes. Early 1970s Paramounts had MSRPs of around $350. 1971 Paramount track bike retailed at $225! I would love to have a container load of those! Meanwhile, a Schwinn Continental retailed for $105 (naturally, thats the bike I got).
Last edited by Uncle Randy; 11-10-14 at 05:11 PM.
11-10-14, 01:37 PM
#64
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Maybe this photo of my other Klein will put us back on track.
11-10-14, 01:59 PM
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And I spent way too much framing a poster of that red Klein carrying a red Porsche ("The Aluminum Klein Could Change Your Priorities"), which still proudly hangs in our room with the bikes.
Those Chehalis-built Kleins were beautiful, IMHO, for their fantastically smooth welds - almost like a good fillet braze, and the paint still looks like it was sprayed yesterday. Photo below was shot when the bike was 11 years old. I saw a later version Klein not long ago that didn't have that same weld quality, although the paint was very good.
Last edited by Dfrost; 11-10-14 at 02:07 PM.
11-10-14, 02:24 PM
#66
Gouge Away
I developed a strong lust for Kleins after that Bicycling article back then, and rode a 1992 Performance model quite happily for a decade and many thousands of sorta fast group and long ride miles (11 centuries+ in one notable year), including 3-week tours in France and Italy. My son is still riding it these days, although we both wish I'd purchased a 62cm version instead of this 60cm.
And I spent way too much framing a poster of that red Klein carrying a red Porsche ("The Aluminum Klein Could Change Your Priorities"), which still proudly hangs in our room with the bikes.
Those Chehalis-built Kleins were beautiful, IMHO, for their fantastically smooth welds - almost like a good fillet braze, and the paint still looks like it was sprayed yesterday. Photo below was shot when the bike was 11 years old. I saw a later version Klein not long ago that didn't have that same weld quality, although the paint was very good.
And I spent way too much framing a poster of that red Klein carrying a red Porsche ("The Aluminum Klein Could Change Your Priorities"), which still proudly hangs in our room with the bikes.
Those Chehalis-built Kleins were beautiful, IMHO, for their fantastically smooth welds - almost like a good fillet braze, and the paint still looks like it was sprayed yesterday. Photo below was shot when the bike was 11 years old. I saw a later version Klein not long ago that didn't have that same weld quality, although the paint was very good.
11-10-14, 04:25 PM
#67
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That carbon fiber rear end is something that was introduced with the first Waterloo-built bikes. I think Trek was looking for something to make aluminum bikes justify a higher price tag, and maybe it was a faster construction time, and maybe it was just a gimmick, and maybe there were too many people whining about stiffness. It also corresponded to the change in naming from Quantum to Q... so sometimes when people say they have a Q-Pro, I have to verify... is that actually Quantum Pro? (Chehalis, aluminum rear end) or did you truly mean Q-Pro? (Waterloo, carbon rear end).
Those Chehalis-built Kleins were beautiful, IMHO, for their fantastically smooth welds - almost like a good fillet braze, and the paint still looks like it was sprayed yesterday. Photo below was shot when the bike was 11 years old. I saw a later version Klein not long ago that didn't have that same weld quality, although the paint was very good.
One of the things that made Kleins a little different was that they used 6000 series aluminum alloys, and then heat treated the whole frame which gave very strong joints. Cheaper aluminum bikes typically use 7000 series aluminums that can handle hotter, sloppier welding without heat treating afterwards... same idea with Scandium.
Those Chehalis-built Kleins were beautiful, IMHO, for their fantastically smooth welds - almost like a good fillet braze, and the paint still looks like it was sprayed yesterday. Photo below was shot when the bike was 11 years old. I saw a later version Klein not long ago that didn't have that same weld quality, although the paint was very good.
11-10-14, 05:15 PM
#69
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That carbon fiber rear end is something that was introduced with the first Waterloo-built bikes. I think Trek was looking for something to make aluminum bikes justify a higher price tag, and maybe it was a faster construction time, and maybe it was just a gimmick, and maybe there were too many people whining about stiffness. It also corresponded to the change in naming from Quantum to Q... so sometimes when people say they have a Q-Pro, I have to verify... is that actually Quantum Pro? (Chehalis, aluminum rear end) or did you truly mean Q-Pro? (Waterloo, carbon rear end).
One of the things that made Kleins a little different was that they used 6000 series aluminum alloys, and then heat treated the whole frame which gave very strong joints. Cheaper aluminum bikes typically use 7000 series aluminums that can handle hotter, sloppier welding without heat treating afterwards... same idea with Scandium.
One of the things that made Kleins a little different was that they used 6000 series aluminum alloys, and then heat treated the whole frame which gave very strong joints. Cheaper aluminum bikes typically use 7000 series aluminums that can handle hotter, sloppier welding without heat treating afterwards... same idea with Scandium.
I have read that the process of constructing the AL/carbon Klien frames was very problematic with a third of the first run of frames being rejected.
I guess there is some intangible perception of quality with the bikes made in Gary’s factory. Gary certainly did have some outstanding painters under his roof. Having owned both new and old Kleins over the years and don’t see a real quality difference with the factory move.
11-10-14, 07:30 PM
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Thanks Jim. I think I already have a set of the XT pedals. Just need the dust caps.
11-11-14, 09:58 AM
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Klein Bicycle Project
Does anyone know Romulus in Culver City? He's writing a book on Kleins.
KLEIN BICYCLES FOR SALE / TRADE / BUY Adroit, Attitude, Adept
https://www.facebook.com/KleinBicycleProject
There's a Klein bicycle club on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Klein...83099918377851
KLEIN BICYCLES FOR SALE / TRADE / BUY Adroit, Attitude, Adept
https://www.facebook.com/KleinBicycleProject
There's a Klein bicycle club on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Klein...83099918377851
11-11-14, 11:38 AM
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Just offering another perspective while trying to stay clear of any p***ing matches...
When it comes to vintage items that were produced within a prospective collector's lifetime, I've noticed a pricing curve related to the buyer's age...
Sentimentality factors into the pricing for collectibles, and sentimentality is obviously tied to the age of the prospective buyer. What we're sentimental for will be strongly influenced by what we found desirable in our youth. For someone who reached adulthood in the '60s or '70s, a Schwinn bicycle or an oyster black pearl Ludwig drum set like Ringo's might be perceived as the ideal. And those few specific items will climb in price as the people who covet them age ...until those sentimental buyers cease buying, deflating the pricing bubble.
Meanwhile, items that were appreciated by the next generation have been climbing in value, following a similar curve relative to the age of the target market. For example, look at the prices some 1980s BMX bikes can fetch. I grew up with those bikes, but my dad wouldn't care to own one and neither would my kids. When my generation no longer buys BMX bikes, that bubble will deflate.
So, using that (admittedly unsubstantiated) perspective to look at the comparisons in this thread between 1970s Schwinns and 1990s Kleins... The Schwinn's price is arguably elevated by sentimentality more than the Klein's at this point in time. Over the next 20 years, as we have fewer people desiring a 1970s Schwinn and more people who wax fondly about that 1990s Klein they can now afford, maybe the Klein will be worth more at some point.
When it comes to vintage items that were produced within a prospective collector's lifetime, I've noticed a pricing curve related to the buyer's age...
Sentimentality factors into the pricing for collectibles, and sentimentality is obviously tied to the age of the prospective buyer. What we're sentimental for will be strongly influenced by what we found desirable in our youth. For someone who reached adulthood in the '60s or '70s, a Schwinn bicycle or an oyster black pearl Ludwig drum set like Ringo's might be perceived as the ideal. And those few specific items will climb in price as the people who covet them age ...until those sentimental buyers cease buying, deflating the pricing bubble.
Meanwhile, items that were appreciated by the next generation have been climbing in value, following a similar curve relative to the age of the target market. For example, look at the prices some 1980s BMX bikes can fetch. I grew up with those bikes, but my dad wouldn't care to own one and neither would my kids. When my generation no longer buys BMX bikes, that bubble will deflate.
So, using that (admittedly unsubstantiated) perspective to look at the comparisons in this thread between 1970s Schwinns and 1990s Kleins... The Schwinn's price is arguably elevated by sentimentality more than the Klein's at this point in time. Over the next 20 years, as we have fewer people desiring a 1970s Schwinn and more people who wax fondly about that 1990s Klein they can now afford, maybe the Klein will be worth more at some point.
11-11-14, 12:47 PM
#73
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And will our kids and grandkids collect? X-boxes?
11-11-14, 12:53 PM
#74
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Just offering another perspective while trying to stay clear of any p***ing matches...
When it comes to vintage items that were produced within a prospective collector's lifetime, I've noticed a pricing curve related to the buyer's age...
Sentimentality factors into the pricing for collectibles, and sentimentality is obviously tied to the age of the prospective buyer. What we're sentimental for will be strongly influenced by what we found desirable in our youth. For someone who reached adulthood in the '60s or '70s, a Schwinn bicycle or an oyster black pearl Ludwig drum set like Ringo's might be perceived as the ideal. And those few specific items will climb in price as the people who covet them age ...until those sentimental buyers cease buying, deflating the pricing bubble.
Meanwhile, items that were appreciated by the next generation have been climbing in value, following a similar curve relative to the age of the target market. For example, look at the prices some 1980s BMX bikes can fetch. I grew up with those bikes, but my dad wouldn't care to own one and neither would my kids. When my generation no longer buys BMX bikes, that bubble will deflate.
So, using that (admittedly unsubstantiated) perspective to look at the comparisons in this thread between 1970s Schwinns and 1990s Kleins... The Schwinn's price is arguably elevated by sentimentality more than the Klein's at this point in time. Over the next 20 years, as we have fewer people desiring a 1970s Schwinn and more people who wax fondly about that 1990s Klein they can now afford, maybe the Klein will be worth more at some point.
When it comes to vintage items that were produced within a prospective collector's lifetime, I've noticed a pricing curve related to the buyer's age...
Sentimentality factors into the pricing for collectibles, and sentimentality is obviously tied to the age of the prospective buyer. What we're sentimental for will be strongly influenced by what we found desirable in our youth. For someone who reached adulthood in the '60s or '70s, a Schwinn bicycle or an oyster black pearl Ludwig drum set like Ringo's might be perceived as the ideal. And those few specific items will climb in price as the people who covet them age ...until those sentimental buyers cease buying, deflating the pricing bubble.
Meanwhile, items that were appreciated by the next generation have been climbing in value, following a similar curve relative to the age of the target market. For example, look at the prices some 1980s BMX bikes can fetch. I grew up with those bikes, but my dad wouldn't care to own one and neither would my kids. When my generation no longer buys BMX bikes, that bubble will deflate.
So, using that (admittedly unsubstantiated) perspective to look at the comparisons in this thread between 1970s Schwinns and 1990s Kleins... The Schwinn's price is arguably elevated by sentimentality more than the Klein's at this point in time. Over the next 20 years, as we have fewer people desiring a 1970s Schwinn and more people who wax fondly about that 1990s Klein they can now afford, maybe the Klein will be worth more at some point.
If you have a Klein MTB with an exotic paint job and an integrated bar/stem maybe you should keep it until Romulus's book is published.
11-11-14, 12:58 PM
#75
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Vintage Apple computers?
apple computer | eBay
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