mystery frame
03-21-15 | 12:24 PM
#2
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,189
Likes: 61
From: The Thumb, MI
The wraparound stays normally indicate a British lineage and the lack of top tube cable guides and long Campy dropouts point to something early to mid 70's or possibly late 60's.
Last edited by Henry III; 03-21-15 at 12:28 PM.
03-21-15 | 01:34 PM
#3
Old fart
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 26,327
Likes: 5,238
From: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Those extended-bevel wrap-over seat stays and curved bridge may be clues. Poke around here and see what you can find:
British Main
British Main
03-21-15 | 01:35 PM
#4
Yes an older British frame, not that unusual with Prugnat lugs and long full-wrap stays...curved bridge might be a helpful clue, but it certainly looks Holdsworth-like to me at first blush. Any serial number on the BB shell (or elsewhere?). 27.0 would say it could be a thicker wall seat tube than regular 531DB, possibly plain-gauge.
03-21-15 | 03:39 PM
#6
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,547
Likes: 434
From: Niagara Region, Canada
Bikes: 1970s Alex Singer, 1960s Peugeot PX 10, 1960s Bertin C37, 1973 Carre Bertin C 37, 1972 Carlton Kermesse, 1981 Peugeot PX 14 Super Competition
03-21-15 | 03:48 PM
#7
Bianchi Goddess
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 28,888
Likes: 4,132
From: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.
Welcome to the "Unknown Frame" Club.
__________________
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
03-21-15 | 04:27 PM
#8
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,340
Likes: 781
From: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Bikes: '08 Look 585, '07 Kuota Kebel, '80s Alan Peitsch
03-21-15 | 04:37 PM
#9
aka Tom Reingold
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,138
Likes: 6,363
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
'S nice!
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
03-21-15 | 06:51 PM
#11
feros ferio
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 22,397
Likes: 1,864
From: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
... or a slightly loose fit. Plain gauge 531 takes a 26.4 or 26.6 seatpost.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
03-22-15 | 12:09 AM
#12
Of course, as said, OP should check and confirm that a 27.0 is the right size for this frame, my gut would say it's a nice enough frame to have been built with 531DB and so should take a 27.2, in an ideal world.
Last edited by unworthy1; 03-22-15 at 12:13 AM.
03-22-15 | 09:28 AM
#14
03-22-15 | 09:31 AM
#15
Things can get removed, earlier bikes will have fewer. Examine the inside of the head tube very closely and or chemically strip the paint to see the history that may indeed have been covered up. MKM could look like this save the curved brake bridge.
03-22-15 | 09:34 AM
#16
Yes and No: back when this frame was (probably) made Reynolds supplied Plain Gauge 531 tubesets in 3 different gauge wall-thickness: 22, 21 and 20 swg, these all in Imperial dimensions so a seat tube of 1.125" OD. If you have a frame with the (shifting to metric-speak now) wall-thickness of 0.7mm then the seat tube opening would be 27.2 and typically reamed for .2mm clearance so a 27.0 seatpost. This is the same wall thickness at top of seat tube that later became used in the 531ST (Super Tourist) tubeset, and those took a 27.0 post, but the OP's frame is a little early for ST tubing, I think. The other 2 plain gauge walls would result in typical seatposts of 26.8 or 26.6 (for the medium and the heaviest gauge, respectively), but I don't think 26.4 would be 'correct' unless the heaviest tube got no reaming (or was in fact a 531Metric tube).
Of course, as said, OP should check and confirm that a 27.0 is the right size for this frame, my gut would say it's a nice enough frame to have been built with 531DB and so should take a 27.2, in an ideal world.
Of course, as said, OP should check and confirm that a 27.0 is the right size for this frame, my gut would say it's a nice enough frame to have been built with 531DB and so should take a 27.2, in an ideal world.
03-22-15 | 10:09 AM
#17
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Lowell Ma
it looks like the original paint was red , unless that was another respray or primer . theres red and green and gray on the chromed dropouts . ill get a seat tube measuring tool tomorrow and check it completely , ears and all
03-22-15 | 12:50 PM
#18
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,439
Likes: 301
SP
OC, OR
03-22-15 | 12:55 PM
#19
I too was thinking "Holdsworth" but it's not a slam-dunk (excuse the basketball expression). There were a number of other British builders that nearly copied a number of the most popular Holdsworth models, including the Mistral and Super Mistral. Ron Kitching (the "K" in MKM) did sell something like that, as did the "other" Butler: Geoffrey Butler and I'm sure there were others...
Speaking of Butlers, anybody know if a Claud Butler (actually another Holdsworth Brand after 1959) from this time-frame would have used a metal badge versus a decal on the headtube? I have a feeling this might explain a thing or 2 (like the serial number which seems sequential, not a Holdsworthy or Holdsworth-Putney-shop norm) and perhaps the curved brake bridge and different braze-ons as well.
Maybe.
Speaking of Butlers, anybody know if a Claud Butler (actually another Holdsworth Brand after 1959) from this time-frame would have used a metal badge versus a decal on the headtube? I have a feeling this might explain a thing or 2 (like the serial number which seems sequential, not a Holdsworthy or Holdsworth-Putney-shop norm) and perhaps the curved brake bridge and different braze-ons as well.
Maybe.
03-23-15 | 01:36 PM
#21
multimodal commuter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,810
Likes: 597
From: NJ, NYC, LI
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Holdsworth-era Claud Butler frames had a metal head badge. The same, or very similar, Holdsworth-made frames were also badged Freddie Grubb (also with a metal badge). But apparently some frames went out with a decal rather than a metal badge.
__________________
www.rhmsaddles.com.
www.rhmsaddles.com.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
taner rona
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
9
03-28-13 02:49 PM
taner rona
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
12
03-06-13 12:57 PM
rjhammett
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
7
10-24-12 04:27 PM
