mystery frame
03-21-15, 12:16 PM
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mystery frame
whaddaya think ? an older british frame ?
been repainted
fork is not original
very distinctive lugs
curved brake bridge
wraparound stays
27.0 seat post
campy dropouts
been repainted
fork is not original
very distinctive lugs
curved brake bridge
wraparound stays
27.0 seat post
campy dropouts
03-21-15, 12:24 PM
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The wraparound stays normally indicate a British lineage and the lack of top tube cable guides and long Campy dropouts point to something early to mid 70's or possibly late 60's.
Last edited by Henry III; 03-21-15 at 12:28 PM.
03-21-15, 01:34 PM
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Those extended-bevel wrap-over seat stays and curved bridge may be clues. Poke around here and see what you can find:
British Main
British Main
03-21-15, 01:35 PM
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Yes an older British frame, not that unusual with Prugnat lugs and long full-wrap stays...curved bridge might be a helpful clue, but it certainly looks Holdsworth-like to me at first blush. Any serial number on the BB shell (or elsewhere?). 27.0 would say it could be a thicker wall seat tube than regular 531DB, possibly plain-gauge.
03-21-15, 03:18 PM
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number on bottom bracket . 2963
looking down from the saddle its on the right side in front parallel to the bottom of the seat post
and its upside down .... if that makes sense lol
thanks all
looking down from the saddle its on the right side in front parallel to the bottom of the seat post
and its upside down .... if that makes sense lol
thanks all
03-21-15, 03:39 PM
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03-21-15, 03:48 PM
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Welcome to the "Unknown Frame" Club.
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03-21-15, 04:27 PM
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I have been a member for about 3 years now. It still bugs me that I don't know what make/model bike I have.
Originally Posted by Bianchigirll
Welcome to the "Unknown Frame" Club.
03-21-15, 04:37 PM
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'S nice!
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03-21-15, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
... 27.0 would say it could be a thicker wall seat tube than regular 531DB, possibly plain-gauge.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
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03-22-15, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by John E
... or a slightly loose fit. Plain gauge 531 takes a 26.4 or 26.6 seatpost.
Of course, as said, OP should check and confirm that a 27.0 is the right size for this frame, my gut would say it's a nice enough frame to have been built with 531DB and so should take a 27.2, in an ideal world.
Last edited by unworthy1; 03-22-15 at 12:13 AM.
03-22-15, 09:21 AM
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ive looked at the early mistrals ( 1963 and up ) and they all have braze-ons , where as this frame only has a chainstay stop . there are no holes for a headbadge either .... hmmmm
03-22-15, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by bertinjim
03-22-15, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by oldguyonabike
ive looked at the early mistrals ( 1963 and up ) and they all have braze-ons , where as this frame only has a chainstay stop . there are no holes for a headbadge either .... hmmmm
03-22-15, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
Yes and No: back when this frame was (probably) made Reynolds supplied Plain Gauge 531 tubesets in 3 different gauge wall-thickness: 22, 21 and 20 swg, these all in Imperial dimensions so a seat tube of 1.125" OD. If you have a frame with the (shifting to metric-speak now) wall-thickness of 0.7mm then the seat tube opening would be 27.2 and typically reamed for .2mm clearance so a 27.0 seatpost. This is the same wall thickness at top of seat tube that later became used in the 531ST (Super Tourist) tubeset, and those took a 27.0 post, but the OP's frame is a little early for ST tubing, I think. The other 2 plain gauge walls would result in typical seatposts of 26.8 or 26.6 (for the medium and the heaviest gauge, respectively), but I don't think 26.4 would be 'correct' unless the heaviest tube got no reaming (or was in fact a 531Metric tube).
Of course, as said, OP should check and confirm that a 27.0 is the right size for this frame, my gut would say it's a nice enough frame to have been built with 531DB and so should take a 27.2, in an ideal world.
Of course, as said, OP should check and confirm that a 27.0 is the right size for this frame, my gut would say it's a nice enough frame to have been built with 531DB and so should take a 27.2, in an ideal world.
03-22-15, 10:09 AM
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it looks like the original paint was red , unless that was another respray or primer . theres red and green and gray on the chromed dropouts . ill get a seat tube measuring tool tomorrow and check it completely , ears and all
03-22-15, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bertinjim
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OC, OR
03-22-15, 12:55 PM
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I too was thinking "Holdsworth" but it's not a slam-dunk (excuse the basketball expression). There were a number of other British builders that nearly copied a number of the most popular Holdsworth models, including the Mistral and Super Mistral. Ron Kitching (the "K" in MKM) did sell something like that, as did the "other" Butler: Geoffrey Butler and I'm sure there were others...
Speaking of Butlers, anybody know if a Claud Butler (actually another Holdsworth Brand after 1959) from this time-frame would have used a metal badge versus a decal on the headtube? I have a feeling this might explain a thing or 2 (like the serial number which seems sequential, not a Holdsworthy or Holdsworth-Putney-shop norm) and perhaps the curved brake bridge and different braze-ons as well.
Maybe.
Speaking of Butlers, anybody know if a Claud Butler (actually another Holdsworth Brand after 1959) from this time-frame would have used a metal badge versus a decal on the headtube? I have a feeling this might explain a thing or 2 (like the serial number which seems sequential, not a Holdsworthy or Holdsworth-Putney-shop norm) and perhaps the curved brake bridge and different braze-ons as well.
Maybe.
03-23-15, 12:57 PM
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so ........
on further examination the seat lug ears were collapsed a bit and when measured with cyclo gauge it measures 27.2 .
on further examination the seat lug ears were collapsed a bit and when measured with cyclo gauge it measures 27.2 .
03-23-15, 01:36 PM
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Holdsworth-era Claud Butler frames had a metal head badge. The same, or very similar, Holdsworth-made frames were also badged Freddie Grubb (also with a metal badge). But apparently some frames went out with a decal rather than a metal badge.
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