Askel

Something is seriously wrong with you or your numbers. You should not add 2lbs/week at 2200 calories/day when you're 6'1" and 260 lbs unless maybe you were bedridden or something.

I wouldn't worry about your fat intake too much until you figure that out.

Neil_B

It's often the numbers. Self-reporting is terribly unreliable. Speaking from experience, fat people claim they eat nothing and gain weight. In most cases, it doesn't work that way. I don't know, of course, if that is the problem the OP is experiencing.

Askel

I have pretty much the same experience. I've been counting calories for many years now, and I don't think I've ever been 100% truthful. At least I lie consistently these days so I can use a fudge factor to make the numbers work.

Air

Before that month I was using Fitday mostly to track my miles and throw in the major foods I was eating (so if I took a handful of carrots I wouldn't bother putting that in). I dropped weight during the summer and I was riding a good amount. As it got colder during that month I measured out bit by bit and had a great ratio of 30-50-20 to make sure I didn't gain any of it back. I did spectacularly. After that I just said **** it in terms of measuring and tracking.

But I'm back. I know diet alone won't do squat but just trying to understand how this whole nutrition thing works would be a good start and hopefully help others who have questions or are confused.

I still find it funny that we can put a man on the moon or send probes to mars but we can't get to the bottom of the ocean or have a clear cut picture of nutrition. Every few years one thing is the good thing to eat and something else that was good is now death. Remember when butter was considered evil because it was loaded in fat so everyone had margarine? Now margarine is the evil thing. And now some say the low fat diet is the cause of obesity and we need more fat in our diet while others tell us we are eating too much fat. It gets very confusing and frustrating for a noob very quickly. Even the simplistic calories consumed < calories burned thing people love to post doesn't make sense depending on who you talk to.[/end rant]

Tom Stormcrowe

Air, it isn't any specific food item. It's an overabundance of food items. We're wired to store on fat for lean times, and given the plenty in current times, this can be a potentially lethal expression of a genetic predisposition. This is one that can be avoided though through some increase in activity, and making sane choices, nutritionally.

Knowledge is power over this. Keep a proper balance in types of calories in, and moderation in the total intake and you have a good start. Add in the additional activity and unless you have an endocrine disorder, it's a pretty simple equation of (Calories in<calories out)= weight loss.

Askel

Good Luck. I've often wished I could just go to the store, buy a big bag of Dog Chow for the dog, and a big bag of People Chow for me. Get fat? Eat less. Get too skinny? Eat more. Easy.

Sadly, the science of nutrition has way too many variables to account for. The best they can manage is driving down the road looking at the rearview mirror.

I don't worry about it a whole lot. It's pretty obvious what constitutes junk food (My rule: If I can't make it myself at home, it probably is), so I avoid that as much as humanly possible. Other than that, I just try not to eat too much of the good stuff and hope for the best.

I do disagree on the diet alone part. While exercise is a very important part of a healthy lifestyle, diet is what will make the pounds come off.

Oh, I hit 104g of fat last night. That tuna fish was just calling my name.

Air

I guess this is what I'm wrapping my head around. Going back up to that example, if I were to eat 'balanced' meals throughout the day an avocado would be 40% of my day's fat intake on something that will not fill up 40% of my day. The logical side of my brain says that's will never be a good food choice. The other side says it's natural and good for me so I should. If I'm tracking everything I'm eating then that choice really limits what I can have the rest of the day - if I had two avocados technically I could barely eat any fat for the rest of the day. If a gram of fat is a gram of fat then yes, I count that in and scrounge to find lots of non fat foods to eat for the remainder of the day. If different types are processed differently then I could eat one or two and not really be concerned with what else I eat providing they are healthy and not of huge portions. Hence me trying to catch my own tail

Neil_B

It's not a day to day matter. That was the breakthrough for me - knowing that I could eat badly one day, for whatever reason, and then get back on the wagon the next. Worrying about two avocados means I'm focusing on what I am DENYING myself. Having the two avocados, and knowing they aren't an everyday food so I should have something else the next day, is focusing on what you are HAVING, not what you can't or shouldn't have. Food isn't the enemy, it's my attitude towards food that needs to be changed.

Neil_B

I'm up 20 pounds since August. I know the feeling. I was late for church on Sunday because I had to hunt for a shirt that fit me. I almost succeeded in finding one. :-(

Air

I guess here's where I start tripping and falling. So they're not a good food to eat on a daily basis? I don't really like them all that much truth be told but trying to get better fruits/veggies into my diet - they're starting to grow on me.

I know if I eat celery I'm not getting too much out of it but it won't cost me much in calories if at all.

I know if I eat a 3 pound steak with all the trimmings it'll fill me up and blow my calories to hell for a week.

It's that middle line I'm looking for. You're right, I know if I have a bad day I can balance it a bit the next as long as it evens out by the end of the week. When it seems everything I eat turns to fat then it's hard to fight the 'food isn't the enemy' notion. I have a terrible time evening out fat. Calories I can do with no problems, but if I had a lot of fat one day it's really hard for me to eat equally less the next to balance it out. Calories no problem.

Connected to that - a friend once mentioned that food is just nutrients. If it ceases to be connected to everything and just looked at as something to fuel the body it's an easier approach.

Another tidbit - if you throw it out or crap it out it still goes to the same place. Good one for me to remind myself since I don't like leaving anything on the plate - damn Italian upbringing

Air

Ugh. For me it's gotten to the point of not seeing people or going dancing because the pants won't fit. And there's a weekend coming up in January that I'm not sure if I'm going yet even though I already paid for it because of that same thing. Arg.

Neil_B

First of all, you are going. Withdrawing from life is not the answer. In fact it's the problem. Fat people hide. Don't hide, Air. I went to church despite my ill-fitting shirt. Of course, a tie covers a multitude of sins. :-)

And now that you know you are going to the dance weekend, you can take action. Again that's the difference between a fat person and regular folks. People do things; fat people don't. I should know. :-)

RadioFlyer

Don't be a tool. I specifically said to talk to your doctor before making any drastic changes.

Air

Yup - if I wasn't interested in taking action I wouldn't be here asking questions When I made that realization that I wasn't showing up in public much that was a good indication that I had to take a different direction than what I was doing. The questions about fat seem like a good place to start as far as food is concerned.

Caincando1

Here is the deal, a calorie isn't just a calorie and fat isn't just fat. I've found a VERY simple way to regulate my diet and still lose a ton of weight. I eat 6-8 times a day and as natural as I can. By natural I mean whole unprocessed foods. I also try and keep the fat intake low. I simply use the scale to regulate my diet. If I'm losing 2-3lbs per week then I'm good to go. That usually figures out to 1lb every other day. If 2 days go by and I haven't lost a pound than I know to eat less. If I lose 2 lbs twice in a row I eat more. If I know I'm not going to be able to work out on a specific day, I alway eat a little less that day. I've found it to be so simple. I never count calories or fat or anything like that.

Wogster

I sometimes think the granularity of daily counting is too fine, so it gets too complicated, counting by the week might actually work better, which means if you have a "bad" day, you can be extra good on a couple of other days, to make up for it.

The other option, mix and match, if your avocado is too much fat for one day, then eat only 1/2 or 1/3 and save the rest, for another day or mix it with something else less fatty, that you can eat over several days.....

KingTermite 

I won't bother to reply RadioFlyer since he's obviously just enjoys being an over opinionated ass clown.

I guess I didn't truly meant to completely cut fat out of your diet. You really can't (unless you really, really, really, really work at it). I was only meaning to avoid them....you will get some anyway, but generally avoiding them is good.

Yes you need some fats, but you will typically get those with even a semi-normal diet. But avoiding them means eating much less, e.g. "not eating excess".

Most large people tend to "flock" toward fatty foods. So by telling somebody who already has a history of poor diet choices (like probably most of us in here do) to go ahead and eat fats just eat "this" kind of fat (people always want to recommend Omega-3 fats) is just a prescription to go and eat a ton of "healthy fat" food.

Now said person doesn't understand why they are gaining wait again when they are eatings tons of nuts, avocado, etc....

Air

How much fat would you say should you get in a semi-normal diet? 80g? 60g? 40g?

Neil_B

This is the same way Fred Anderson lost weight, as he described it in his book From Chunk to Hunk.

https://www.chunktohunk.com/main

"I’m not particularly concerned with my caloric intake. I’m not on a diet because I believe diets don’t work, at least not for someone as big as me. Someone my size needs a whole new way of eating, something designed to last the rest of his life.

"I’m simply eating healthier food. As someone who needs to watch his blood sugar, I try to keep my carbohydrates per meal to around 60 or 70 grams. My doctor tells me that once I lose my weight, I won’t have to be so careful about watching carbohydrates, because my body will be using its insulin properly. When she diagnosed me with diabetes in 1997 my doctor gave me an 1800-calorie diet, but the dietician she sent me to said I would starve on it and that I should be eating about 2500 calories per day. I’m not sure which to believe, so I just eat what seems right.
Life’s too short to spend my time weighing and measuring what I eat.

"My body knows when it has had enough, and it can tell me better than either my doctor or a dietician. I got this fat through a combination of eating too much and moving too little. Instead of eating until I’m stuffed, now I merely eat until I’m full. I’m eating more vegetables every day, and several pieces of fruit. The change in my energy level is astounding."

Neil_B

The moment you stop doing things because of obesity, obesity wins. Thanks for not letting it win.

Neil_B

I don't know if avocados are good or not so good. I don't like them, and so I don't eat them. I suggest eating fruits you DO like. :-)

breadbin

i eat an avocado everyday because i love it after a meal and its better for me than ice cream although I do enjoy my ice cream too! Don't be too hard on yourself, I would hate to be counting calories and fat and all. My personal goal is to become a "normal" eater. Get your food pyramid and try and stick to it. It allows beer and ice cream and everything else "bad" - only in moderation;-) Try and change your thinking to praise rather than punishment;-)

wayne pattee

For me, Thats the best thing I can do for myself if I want to loose weight.

Air

Yeah but the danger is overeating in the morning to compensate. I'm also pretty much always hungry no matter what I eat so the 'eat till full' never quite worked for me (tried all the tricks, chewing more, utensil down between bites, smaller meals, eat half - wait - eat other half, etc..). I think part of that is since I drink so much water a day my stomach is a bit more stretched (I can chug a 1.5 liter of water without blinking - I usually don't but do go through 2-4 bottles a day) and part who knows. If I know I ate enough but am still hungry I can take grapefruit seed oil which will cut back on the hunger part usually but it's artificial.

Back to fat and summary. Tell me if y'll agree:

General consensus - good fat & bad fat all still count as fat. 1 gram good fat = 1 gram bad fat so to speak.

One can even out the fat they eat over the course of the week but at the end the good and bad fats are still rolled into 'fat'

'Good fat' does healthy things that science guesses at (though not 100% sure since the high fat olive oil diets seem to work as well) but is processed better than 'bad fat' which gets stuck in the ole plumbing so it's a better choice in the long run than 'bad fat.'

*Probably* one could get away with eating *slightly* (about 10g/day let's say as to not go hog wild) more good fats and still lose weight because of how the body processes and uses it.


Now in terms of what is balanced....For the people that count what they eat (because obviously my body is not to be trusted by what it tells me it wants so I can't listen to it): what ratios of fat/carbs/protein do you keep? I see 30-50-20 (fat-carb-prot) kicked around a lot. Good starting point?

KingTermite 

I don't have my normal reference ("Eat To Live") in front of me, but off the top of my head, I'd say 40g from what you list, but even that sounds a bit high to me.