RedC

Thank's to the help from this group I've learned a lot in the last 8 to 10 weeks. Going from two mile rides which nearly killed me to 60 miles this weekend feeling pretty good. Tomorrow I won't get to ride because "Fay" is coming through town but I don't have any understanding of "intervals" or "recovery rides" Thus far I've simply ridden as far as I could as fast as I could as often as I could. I've lost a little over 10 lbs, tightened my belt several notches, and improved my health and general well being dramatically, but I think I probably need a more thoughtful plan from here on out.


By the way Tom, I got mtb shoes and new peddles and they are great! Now if only I could remember "unclip, then stop" I could stay upright.

lil brown bat

Interval training is designed to improve anaerobid performance, i.e., one's ability to perform at maximum effort. Lately people are also interested in interval training as a "shortcut" way to burn more calories in less time. There are a whole lot of reasons why this is a bad idea for the average person who's just trying to lose weight and get in shape, which I will go into if you want. Basically, interval training is most useful for people who are trying to improve their performance -- not enhance their weight loss -- at activities that are characterized by bursts of peak effort (like sprinting, alpine skiing, etc.). Interval training is not safe to undertake unless you already have a solid base of aerobic fitness; otherwise, it's a good way to get hurt.

Recovery days are a completely different topic. Recovery days are appropriate and will enhance the training effect if used as part of a program that contains some real exercise stress and a real training effect on the other days.

squirrell

Ok, so go into the interval training a little more, please.

I started riding in April. At the time, I was 140 lbs. overweight. I'm female, 45 years old and a Type 2 Diabetic.

Today (Aug. 19), I'm still 45 but have lost 55 pounds with many more to go yet.

I ride an average of 110-125 miles per week on a Hybrid. My longest ride to date is 52 miles.

I have always pushed for speed on my rides, as I just like pushing myself, and was trying to maintain a 13-14 mph average on rides.

But a few weeks ago, I had a serious low while riding and almost passed out. Since then, I've learned a lot about electrolytes, eating the right kinds of snacks, and riding for time/distance not speed.

Anyway....I've read a lot about interval training and for the last couple of weeks have been trying it during my rides. I am riding the 15 mile bike-leg in a Triathlon (for fun not to win!) at the end of September and have been trying to increase my stamina.

Are intervals bad for me at this point? My weight loss has slowed tremendously the last month and a half and I've hit several plateaus as well.

I should add that I monitor my calorie intake religiously using a website--I get about 1200 calories a day plus whatever I burn up riding, so I eat anywhere from 1200 to 2500 a day usually, depending on how much riding I do that day. With the daily caloric deficit I'm getting, I SHOULD be losing 2-3 pounds a week and YET, have lost only 7 pounds the last 5 weeks and nothing for the last week at all.

uncadan8

Do you have any support for your perceptions on interval training? I know from experience that interval training is a superior method of losing weight, gaining performance, and improving overall body composition. Here are some articles that might help explain the benefits of interval training a little better than I personally could:
https://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459414
This one explains how to put together intervals with other types of cardio for the best results:
https://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1096984

And these are just a few of the many articles to be found out there that will help you maximize your training results. And for the record, peak efforts are a relative thing - a 320 pound newbie to cycling won't have the same peak effort as someone who has been riding 10 years. I used to be that 320 newbie and have lost 75 pounds through interval methods with no injury due to that training.

As far as recovery rides go, it is beneficial to make the majority of your rides on the easier side, with occasional hard or very hard rides mixed in. So for instance, in a week's time you might want to try something like the following:
Monday: Rest Day
Tuesday: Zone 1 ride - 1 hour (Easy)
Wednesday: Zone 2 ride - 3 hours (Moderate Effort)
Thursday: Zone 3-4 - 1 hour (Intervals)
Friday: Zone 1 - 1 hour (Easy)
Saturday: Zone 1-5 - 5-6 hours (Hard Ride)
Sunday: Zone 1-3 - 1-2 hours (Moderate)

Of course, this is just ONE option! The point is, going hard all the time will ultimately end up with you being stuck in a rut that seems impossible to break. Mixing up your effort levels will ultimately keep your riding fresh and interesting. Intervals are simply one more tool in the toolbox.

lil brown bat

I've got quite a bit, thanks.

The source of these articles is "Testosterone Nation", a bodybuilding website. I didn't mention this, but in recent years bodybuilders have swallowed the interval training kool-ade, for reasons that make a certain kind of sense...for a bodybuilder. Put simply, bodybuilders have a different goal from people who are simply trying to lose weight and get in shape -- and they have a very different diet. They need to ingest a lot of calories to get the protein they need...so they also need to burn a lot of calories. Because lifting is an inefficient way to burn calories (in terms of calories burned per hour), and because they're already spending a lot of time in the gym, bodybuilders aren't interested in aerobic methods of burning calories. Sooo...they've turned to interval training as a way of burning more calories in a shorter period of time. It "works" for them (when it does) because they've already got a good general level of fitness.

Ah, but what "results" are you looking for? What "results" am I looking for? What "results" is OP looking for? Not everybody is trying to solve the same problem, and a given tool doesn't solve every problem -- certainly not interval training, which is on the more specialized end of the spectrum.

That's true, but not really relevant here. If your goal is not to improve your peak effort, then don't use a tool whose purpose is to do so.

lil brown bat

They're not necessarily bad for you, but they aren't the best tool to improve your stamina or jack up your weight loss. They improve your sprinting ability. Sprinting != stamina.

Not losing weight in a given week isn't cause for alarm, if you're a premenopausal woman -- there are times in your cycle where you will retain water, and that can cancel out any weight loss. As for the rest of it, since you allow yourself calories equal to your activity, your caloric deficit is coming from the difference between 1200 and your basal metabolic rate, whatever that is. You don't state your height and weight, but if you were 5' 6" and 85 pounds overweight, your BMR would be 1688 -- so your daily caloric deficit would be 488 calories. Since you need to burn about 3500 calories to lose one pound of weight, at a daily deficit of 488 calories, you should expect to lose a little less than one pound a week. Soooo...you're actually doing okay. It's a good, sustainable, healthy way to lose weight -- it just requires patience. Remember that there are 52 weeks in a year, and at a pound a week you'll be down another 50 pounds in a year...and that you didn't put it on in four months and you shouldn't expect to take it off in four months. Just be patient and stay with it (or if you really want to lose more weight, consider upping the overall intensity of your exercise, not intervals, just a faster sustained pace -- without upping calories consumed to compensate).

uncadan8

I have already provided info that intervals are good for much more than improving peak effort, so I won't go into that again. However, maybe part of any misunderstanding is due to misperceptions on what intervals are. They are not simply sprints and rest periods. Anything where you are purposefully varying your intensities can be considered intervals. Tailor the method to suit the needs. And my apologies for any perceived slight. My only intention is to try to provide other readers with information that might be a help.

RedC

I am a newbie, although I started at 275lbs rather than 3 something, I'd still like to head toward 225lbs and I'm down 10 so far. I commute Tuesday through Friday about 6 miles each way so I have Sat, Sun and Mon to play. Currently I'm riding with a group on Saturday for 20-25 miles hoping to up the distance soon. So what is the best course for me to continue to lose weight and improve my stamina and strength.

lil brown bat

uncadan8, your post is formatted For Crap, making it very difficult to quote and respond to. If you're going to break up quotes and responses, please use the quote /quote tags to do it.

Quite a lot of it was from conversations from coaches, which alas are not transcribed on the interwebs for your reading pleasure. The primary danger comes from inexperienced, previously sedentary people not knowing what a maximum safe effort is, and exceeding it. Remember that if it ain't max effort, it ain't interval training.

It seems you missed my point. As I said -- excess calories are a problem for bodybuilders, for specific reasons that DO NOT OBTAIN for the average lose-weight-and-get-fit Clydesdale/Athena. Interval training is a tool that works for bodybuilders to get rid of these excess calories. It works given a certain set of constraints and conditions that DO NOT EXIST for the average Clydesdale/Athena. Using a bodybuilder's solution to solve a non-bodybuilder's problem does not make sense.

That turns out not to be the case. See my response above. Oh, and "better body composition"...well, no, not exactly, not the way a bodybuilder looks at it. That's not what the average Clydesdale/Athena is after, at all.

...given constraints and conditions that don't apply to the average Clyde/Athena, as I have pointed out already.

Sorry, but it sounds to me like you're humpty-dumptying the definition of intervals.

uncadan8

Well, sorry that I don't seem to be able to make myself clear to you, lbb. As far as formatting, my stuff was in blue. I'm not too great at using all the various tricks and shortcuts to enhance your reading pleasure.

That being said, I think you are still making generalizations that aren't helpful. Intervals is pretty useful to any kind of athlete from any kind of background who is desiring any particular types of results. That is my point. It has worked for me and lots of people (who aren't bodybuilders) that I know.

Now, off to try to help the OP.

squirrell

I'm 5'4" and currently weigh 224. My BMR is roughly 1700 or so. Sedentary lifestyle outside of biking exercise means I need about 2200 per day to maintain my weight--so a 1200 calorie a day diet should give me 1000 calorie a day deficit--or 7000 a week or 2 pounds a week loss. Ain't happening. The first 3 months, I lost like mad--sometimes as much as 5 pounds a week. In three months, I lost 45 pounds. Now, it's been 10 pounds since last week of June....

Tom Stormcrowe

Sounds like you're both getting hung up on 2 different types of intervals, mainly, ie: Periodization vs High Intensity Interval Training. One is for peak performance training and the other is for avoidance of adaptive plateauing.

HiIT: High Intensity Interval training: Technique used for training for racing, to achieve your absolute peak performance in sprinting and the explosive burst of speed needed to successfully pull off an attack in a Crit or other road race

Periodization: Breaking up the routine with various intensities and even multiple activities if you add in cross training. This is designed to keep the body from adapting to any specific exercise routine. If you do the same exercise routine over and over again at the same intensity, the body will adapt to this and stop gaining in fitness and simply maintain. This would include causing a plateau in weight loss if WL is your goal.

Best I can say is define your goals and use whichever is most useful at the time. Either will work, with varying levels of success.

uncadan8

My recommendation would be to carry on as you are with the group ride on Saturday. Sunday could be a hard effort with hill intervals if you are not too taxed from Saturday's ride. If you are feeling Saturday's ride, then make Sunday a longer ride at an easy pace, and make Monday your hard day. The thing to keep in mind is that your commute can be pretty wearing even though the distances are relatively short. You may want to try incorporating interval sprints (road signs, corners, etc. - these can be as little as 15-30 second efforts with several minutes of rest between) into your commute and then go for distance or easy rides on weekends. Otherwise, treat your commute like your easy rides and put your effort on the weekend.

You may also want to check out Joe Friel's books on setting up a program. I'm pretty sure they will give you ways to adapt your current riding schedule to suit your goals.

And of course, I assume you know what to do as far as diet. You have made great progress so far! Keep the good eating going and the weight loss will come. Try different things with your training and the stamina will get much better as well.

uncadan8

Exactly. Various types of intervals work for different purposes. Oh, and I'm well aware of what periodization is and how to use it, but that wasn't what the OP was asking about. Different thread perhaps!

uncadan8

...which really isn't a bad rate. Could be better, but it depends also on whether it has been steady or in spurts. Can you elaborate on your progress since June?

squirrell

From June 17 to July 10, I lost nothing--went back and forth between 233 and 237. Then between July 11 and July 21, I lost 3 pounds. then from July 25 to July 31, I lost 5 pounds (in one week). Then from July 31 to Aug. 8, I lost 2 pounds. Since Aug. 8, I went yo-yo again and have swung back and forth between 224 and 227.

Doc said I might be pre-men but not sure. They're going to include the blood tests for it when I have my quarterly blood labs work-ups in Dec. Haven't checked with doc about frustration with weight loss, as when I went to see her in July I was still losing fairly regular and figured the plateau would break and the 2 pound a week or more loss would resume.

uncadan8

Alright, well, this doesn't actually seem too bad to me (I know, probably not what you want to hear). But if you have your diet in order, and the exercise has been regular, then there may be something else going on, and hopefully your doc can help with that. However, if there have been issues with the diet and exercise (and we ALL have them) then those are things to be worked on. I know I do a very similar thing with bouncing back and forth between a certain weight range, have a sudden drop and then plateau again. But I almost always can tie it to my affinity for ice cream, or chocolate, or pizza, or ....

Eventually, I just have to get tough with myself and develop discipline. Not saying that is your issue, but maybe it is a small part of the picture.

squirrell

Nope--don't cheat at all. Can't with the diabetes. Worst thing I've had since April was a cheeseburger without the bun and that was one time only. And, I don't drink anything but water.

Tom Stormcrowe

If you're taking insulin, there can be issues with fat storage, no matter how careful you are with your diet. This is NOT medical advice, here, but some Drs have had some success with using the diabetes drug Metformin to stimulate weight loss with a reduced dose of insulin and careful monitoring of your blood sugars.

uncadan8

Sounds like you have that part under control then! I don't know if this will help any, but I seemed to get stuck really bad after 25, 50, 65, 75 pounds. In each of those times, I tried to switch up my training and started seeing results again. However, before I changed training methods or intensities, I made sure to get a good period of almost total rest (usually about a week). Sometimes, when you have been training hard and regularly, rest is the magic bullet that you need.

squirrell

Not on insulin--that's why I started to lose weight to avoid going on it. I was on Metformin and Glimiparide--2 pills of each 2x a day. Doc cut out the Glimiparide and just gave me ok to come off Metformin completely as well. I was having severe lows.

Which is the other issue I'm dealing with--eating enough carbs to sustain my level of riding but not spiking my levels since I'm off the meds now. If I take the meds, I drop low and have to eat more than I want to keep my levels up. Off the meds, if I take a day off from exercise, then I can't hardly eat any carbs at all or levels spike.

andrelam

Also don't forget that there is more to progress than just losing weight. As muscle is being built you may not loose as much over all weight, but your body is clearly taking on a healthier balance. Inches on the waist or other area are also good places to see signs of progress. I weigh about the same as l did a year ago, but I now have my belt 1" tighter.

Happy riding,
André

RedC

Amen! My weight loss got slowed because I felt so much better I started eating more than I should but after I calmed down I couldn't help but celebrate the reduction in my gut size.

Missbumble 

Hi Guys - This is all very confusing...I know y'all are trying to make it clear .

So I am not sure - what i think I hear is go do some intervals if I want to get better/faster/stronger as a cyclist...and it will help the weight loss as it is similar to corss training.

But what i also read here was the following from Uncle Dan...
OK - so what I am hearing from rides...and people who have lost 100 pounds..and other fitness folks...that i should go out and ride 3 hours at say 60% of my heart rate (I am 45..resting HR 64 so 60% i think is in the 140 range). So I am fixing to go buy a HR monitor and go easy on my rides ont he weekend - so I stay in that range.

I must say I would think my rolling hills where I ride an avg of 14mph...menaing 15-20 on the flats and 6-10mph onth friggin hiils...would be a better workout. I imagine my HR would jump onthe hills... or jump when I push myself alot. But this woudl be a very differnt ride - that going on a flat ride for 3 hours at a medium HR of say 140...

LBB and Uncledan and Tom - I bet you all have very different opinions. So what should I do?
My goals: #1 Lose weight and be come one hot cyclist... I have lost 32 pounds - a pound a week or so - sometimes more sometimes less since April 21...) I have about 55 pounds to go!

#2 Goal: Ride faster - it would be so awesome to be able to join ,ost group rides - even the mens ride that avgs say 17 mph... but I guess that is ways down the road as I gain experience

#3 Goal - I may even try a triathalon...but for now I am not worried about that - just goal 1 and 2.

Ok Have at it....

Tom Stormcrowe

All three are possible, although I think you're pretty hot already. Build a solid base of fitness first, then build your top end. All I can really tell you is if you want to ride long......train for long distance, and if you want to ride fast, train for speed. If you want to do both, train for both with periodization, high intensity intervals and long endurance on a variable rotation, with proper recovery.

If you want to do Triathlons, well, that's a whole different game, since you will be training for 3 separate disciplines. Crosstraining and Brick training are the key here, with 2 of the 3 activities done in your training day, like swim/bike, then bike/run, then swim/run. Always do the swim first though, especially if you're going to train in open water rather than a pool, so you aren't trying to push with your glycogen already depleted and you cramp. Not good in water that's over your head.