Rimmer

I'm usually between 80-90, and I balance it based on leg burning. When I approach upper 70s/ lower 80s depending on the intensity, my legs are the limiting factor. If I see a hill, I up the cadence to 90-110 depending on how steep or long it is as my cadence decreases some going up. Sometimes I'm in one gear too high, but I know how to downshift smoothly going up hill without losing momentum. If it's a dip (down hill then up hill), I upshift increasing the torque/intensity and just glide right through going up hill. I can spin without a problem, but I’m working on strength.

the_goob

I find my lungs to be my limiting factor.

Zvolen

I know this thread was directed at me, however I took some of the advice and it seemed to help a lot. Before my legs felt fatigued or burned on even a short 2 mile ride, yes I am new, but I did a 14 mile ride last night and felt fresh. I forced myself to stay in a lower gear then I even felt I needed to, yes my avg MPH suffered slightly but my legs felt WAY better.

Thanks for the advice I will keep soaking in the knowledge available on this board.

CJ C

ok i tried this today and found that if my cadence is 95 or above i am too bouncy to be comfortable and i actually was slower riding.

i found my natural sweet spot is 87-93 and my tired spot is 83-85. this is funny because i always assumed i am a masher? i really thought i would naturally be at 60 or 70?

jethro56 

Sounds great! I've had to work on it to get to these rpm's. Last winter I was bouncing at 80 on the trainer.

CJ C

you can correct the bouncing thing? I am all ears.

Peter_C

70 is *not* mashing

Mashing is like 40-50RPM.

Anything 70+ is good. The rest is just preference.

As for the bouncing - that simply takes time at the higher RPM to become smoother. I bounce at anything over 90RPM myself.

jethro56 

I have unproven theories on how to increase rpm. My cardio is pretty good for an old fart. So for me it's muscle memory and making sure that i'm lifting my leg on the upstroke and not depending on the downstroke leg to push it up. It'd be great to hear some informed guidance on this subject.

goldfinch

Yesterday on my long ride I spun just below the point of bounce, which is what I have been trying to do for a couple of months. I counted seconds and I believe that I have two foot rotations every second, which would make for a very high cadence of 120. I know it is high because watching other bikers on the trail showed me no one was spinning as fast as me. When I rode with another rider for a few miles I pedaled two rotations for his every one, almost exactly.

Now I am wondering if this is the best way to go, or preference, or if I actually am spinning too fast. Can you spin to fast? I assume I spin fast because I do not have enough leg muscle. I am walking to improve my strength. My only spinning issue is losing footing on my pedals but I ordered power grip pedals and they should be here tomorrow.

Peter_C

To be honest, this is an area I don't know the answer to. I know mashing can be hard on knees, and if you already have bad knees (like me) spinning is the only way to ride. For me, anything 70+ works, and over 90RPM I bounce and get out of breath.

I know back in the 70s when I was with a group there would be 1 or 2 guys that would ride around in their highest gear all the time - saying they were working on strength. - But who thinks about knees when they're 18-19yrs old???

CJ C

thanks pete and jethro,

funny yesterday when i went psycho wheel hamster i had two points where i cranked at 160 and 157 rpm and didnt bounce like i did at 100? today i stayed at 75-85 because the wind was kicking my butt and to stay at my average mph thats what i had to do is muscle the gears to get the speed?

i am going clipless so i hope the roundness of my cranking will help with the bouncing.

Drew Eckhardt 

It can be.

_Training and Racing with a Power Meter_ has an anecdote about a racer who got dropped in the hills every time he had to sustain his one-hour power with a cadence under 70 RPM for at least five minutes.

Cadence so low it drops your endurance by a factor of 12 is mashing.

It's dependent on power and personal physiology. At higher power outputs (more speed on the same incline, a steeper incline at the same speed) you need more RPMs to limit muscle fatigue (from type IIb muscle fiber recruitment) if you want to still be going strong later in the ride or tomorrow. When hammering there's a limit to how hard you can push on the pedals and you're only going to go faster by turning the cranks quicker.

At 90-100 RPM I can ride threshold intervals at the same power on consecutive days. Around 85 where I'd prefer to pedal I can't. I feel less fatigue riding VO2 max intervals at 100-110 RPM. I can sprint faster shifting past 120 RPM instead of 110 RPM and wouldn't be surprised to find more power approaching 130.

MacIntosh, Neptune, and Horton's study _Cadence, power, and muscle activation in cycle ergometry_ looks at muscle activation during cycling and concludes


Right.

Peter_C

In every post I have written from the angle of "knee issues" only.

I know nothing about racing, nor what is needed to do that well.

My only perspective when discussing cadence is in regard to pedaling in such a way where risk of possible knee injuries *may* occur. From that 'window', my statement still stands.

I have not, nor will not ever try to make a broad statement (like you took my words out of context) as you painted above.

Some thoughts may be knowledge, some thoughts may be opinion - but I will frankly state, I know nothing about racing, training for racing, or for 'performance' in fact.

I have bad knees, and I have been taught that certain styles of riding can make bad knees worse. And, I am not trying to say that anyone that chooses to 'mash', or consistently use a cadence lower than 70 *will* hurt their knees - I do not know that, as everyone is different.

Read my words like this:

And the above was a follow-up statement to:

Peter_C

Anyhow, my point if you follow the thread from the beginning you will see that my focus is somewhat narrow. But I believe that the OP, and most of the others understand that my concern centers totally around the possible risk to knee problems either created, or worsened, by 'mashing', instead of 'spinning'.

That the use of a higher cadence with a lower torque makes for less possible stress on the knees. That folks that have knee issues, or, are worried about getting possible knee issues, may indeed wish to consider shorter cranks (As I have noted in other posts), the downside of shorter cranks being less power per stroke (for a given effort) which translates into less pressure on the knees.

With respect, I wish to not be quoted out of context as was done above. Yes, anyone reading that statement on it's own would think the guy (me) is nuts. While I might well be nutty, I can prove that on my own without help.