paisan

Yes this argument is exactly like the FS and hardtail debates of the mid-late 90’s, because even after the FS designs improved past the Unified Rear Triangle and Specialized Ground Control(pre-hearst link) designs you still had guys who never actually rode one(hint hint) complaining about how they were horrible and there was no need for one.

Listen, I get the whole stronger wheel argument, of course a 26” wheel will be stronger than a 29” wheel, but there’s no higher incidence of broken 29” wheels like there was when they were first introduced 10 years ago. You make it sound like a 29” will self detonate the minute it sees dirt, in fact your arguments are eerily similar to the low spoke count /carbon wheels and frames for clydes arguments we see all the time. The fact is a well built, properly tensioned wheel will hold up to MTB riding but if someone intends to huck or ride downhill stuff or any of the other aspects of the sport that are not wheel friendly then I agree that they should stick to the 26”.

As for the heavier bike, taller geometry etc etc argument, The bikes have really progressed since they were first introduced. The first batch were everything you describe. However, here we are 10 years later and manufacturers have adopted the trend and have changed things ups. 29” bikes are no longer just upsized 26” bikes. The geometry of the new bikes is no where similar to the first generation and the weights and stand over heights have come down dramatically. Of course if you compare a 29 to a 26 at the same price point there is a weight penalty but that doesn’t mean a light 29 can’t be built. There are plenty of sub 20 lb 29” hardtails out there and even a bunch of low-mid 20lbs FS bikes.

The point is if someone is reading this looking for what is a better bike 29 or 26, the real answer is both. It depends on your riding style and the type of trails you will be riding. Either bike can handle the terrain near where you live but one may/may not be able to do it a little better and it may/may not be easier for you to clear that terrain. For the real answer go visit some shops and the trail heads near you and talk to the guys there and see what is a better fit for your local riding, not some internet guys who admittedly haven’t even rode one and are basing their opinion on what they think know.

cyccommute 

Going back and reading your posts, I wonder if you fall into the same group of "some internet guys". You don't actually say that you have ridden one off-road and only say that you've 'talked with some guys". One could get the impression that you are basing your opinion on what you think you know.

paisan

HAHAHA the classic 'I know I am but what are you defense" Well Played sir.

To answer your question I have ridden 29" bikes. I just don't feel like I have enough saddle time on one to tell someone to buy or not to buy one. The first one I rode was back in 02-03 when one of my buddies bought a Fisher hardtail a few months after they were introduced. I didn't like it for a few reasons. First of which is the trails I tried it on are definately better suited to 26" wheels, they were tight twisty choose your line technical type trails, all of which are where the 29 is lacking. I also prefered my FS over my hardtial on those trails. So I'm not sure if the reason I really didn't like it was because it was a 29 or that it was a hardtail. Either way I wasn't impressed and stayed clear for a few years.

Fast forward through the years and my goddaughters father buys a FS Fisher. So I borrowed that a few times when I lived in Florida. It was a size too small for me but I still gave it a shot. The trails there were definately made for 29". They had a lot of roll and flow and I could easily see that in certain types of trails a 29 does roll easier. I wont say it's faster because I never really rode those trails enough on both his bike and my bike to make a good comparison, plus his bike was a Med and I ride a XL.

Now I'm up in the PA/DE/MD corner and I see these bikes in/out the shop all the time. Occasionally I run into a guy I know and he'll offer to let me take a quick spin but there's never been anything significant enough to make a judgement or a comparison until this morning. Which is funny you typed that because I was riding this morning with my neighbor and I ran into a customer I know. A few weeks ago he bought a Salsa Spearfish but wanted to watch as it was assembled. So while I built his bike we got to talking and he offered to let me ride it if I wanted. I didn't take him serious, I just figured he was really excited to be having his new bike built and was just being nice to the guy who was building it. Well this morning we run into and he said "hey wanna try it". I immediately jumped on the chance especially since he runs Time Atacs as I do and it's the right size. I also wanted to boogie down the trail before he got a chance to size me up and say hmm aren't you a clyde? LOL

Well I immediately turned around and re-ran the section of trail I had just done on my Ellsworth and again I have to say there are sections where it feels easier to maintain speed and roll on a 29" and there are sections that I can clear with difficulty on my 26" that I had even more difficulty today and just unclipped so that I wouldn't risk boffing on his fairly new bike.

So in the end my experience is limited compared to guys who actually own them but even then I think that unless someone has ridden both on the same trails and can make a true comparison any input is jaded by what they think and not what they know. That's why I always grill the few guys who come in that do actually own both and even got some to let me sneak a look at HR numbers and average speeds. I'm still not entirely sure which way I will go and depending on the day you ask I will bounce between the top contenders (Turner 5 spot, Turner Flux, Santa Cruz Carbon Tallboy, Blur Carbon LT). We don't do enough volume to rate a Demo but there is a shop 1.5 hours away that will rent Santa Cruz's and I've been thinking of going up there and renting one for a week this way I can get a real side by side comparison before I drop a good amount of scratch.

tallteacher

I have a BD Fly Team Ti 29 that i got for a screamin deal and couldnt pass it up...I used to mtb a lot when I live in Oregon but recently wanted to get back into it...my old mongoose zero g is still in the garage and puttin around...
I have only a handful of significant trail rides with the 29er...first, I could roll over bigger objects than i thought...I am still getting back my nerve to ride the technical stuff...and some of this stuff I have ridden is pretty technical FOR ME....visually, due to lack of saddle time, the big tires seem like they would be harder to manuever...each time I have gone, I have been able to ride what I previously had to walk through... I think this based on ME and not the ability of the bike.... If you are just rolling on more cross country type trails, I would not hesitate to say get a BD 29er... I used to use clip in pedals/shoes , but for the technicality of hte stuff I was riding I switched to a 5-10 shoe and 10 pin flat pedal so i can get my foot off faster so I dont take a header (although it didnt help last time out!)....

If you plan on riding super technical stuff, I dont know really what to tell you...so far my bike has out performed me while riding...no troubles with the bigger wheels...if smaller wheels make you think you will have better control, they most likely will since you will have faith in their performance

just my $.02

magohn

Bump for arrival of the bike.

Im very happy with my BD deal. I ordered the 20" frame and it gives me approx 1" of standover clearance yet feels comfortable in arm reach etc. Packaging was excellent and assembly took approx 45 mins as I rechecked all the fixings that came pre-assembled. The hydraulic brakes were perfect and so now I need to test ride everything.

I guess I got "lucky" as BD stated that some shipments of this model come with "Slightly Upgraded forks and brakes (no choice)". Mine came with the supposedly preferred "Higher level Recon Silver TK Preload+Lockout forks, Avid Elixir disc brakes". Whatever that means - I was cool with whatever came

Thanks again for all the help.

UNPACKING


ASSEMBLED

sstorkel

Nice looking bike! Did you adjust the preload on the fork to get the proper "sag"? It's worth doing before your first ride. Often this is covered in the documentation for the fork. If not, you can probably find the procedure online. Don't use a pre-printed table based on rider weight: you want to actually measure the sag with a tape measure and set the preload based on the measurement.

CliftonGK1

Wanna go hit some trails this weekend? I can show you around the mild/mid XC stuff out at Duthie if you want. :-)

magohn

Thanks! Im afraid I have close to zero idea on how to set the fork. Im a literal newb to MTBs. Any "close enough" tips?

magohn

I wish. I will be taking it easy for a few weeks because I threw my back out 3 weeks ago training for the RSVP - which I had to cancel. Thank you very much for the offer. I intend wandering over to Duthie mid-week just to check it out. Looks pretty intimidating to a newb

BTW - I had one ever-so-slight issue on a quick test drive. There was a 'ching-ching-ching' sound when in the lowest gear. Turns out the 'dork disc' was catching on rotation against the derailleur - off it came. Now I get all 30-speeds perfectly right out of the box!

CliftonGK1

Duthie has some great newb trails! When you head into the clearing, make your way to the 10 o'clock perimeter point by the row of dropoffs. Up in that area, just past the skinny logride, is a green sign that says "BOOTCAMP". That's where you want to start out. It's about a 1.5 mile trail of nice packed dirt, not many roots, good banked turns, and nothing too steep up or down.

magohn

Awesome! Thanks so much for the tips. I had no idea there was a Bootcamp section. Im assuming I can just go and ride as its part of King County Parks (no fee)?

Im excited to go try. My wife thinks its a mid-life crisis as I sit watching YouTube videos of Duthie Hill runs by "20 yr old somethings". Im 48 yrs and 280lbs. Yes, I will be visiting Bootcamp for quite some time.

sstorkel

Do you have the air spring or coil spring version of the fork? Performance Bike has a generic guide for setting the preload/sag, rebound damping, and compression damping of a suspension fork. Your fork has 130mm of travel. You'll want to aim for a sag of around 25-30%, so 32.5-39mm or 1.25-1.5 inches. If your fork has an air spring, you'll need a shock pump ($20-25) in order to be able to set the preload. If you have a coil spring, I don't know what you do; I've only ever owned forks with air springs!

paisan

Magohn,
Please check to make sure that you will not pinch that front brake line with the fork fully compressed. That line should be run underneath the bridge and out the front then up to the lever. They ran it behind the bridge between the stanchion so it might get pinched between the fork crown and bridge with the fork fully compressed.

Also some forks come with a little rubber gasket to help you measure sag as described by SStorkel. If yours did not just place a ziptie on the stanchion, then when the fork is compressed it moves the ziptie. Then you can measure to the tie vs trying to get a measurement while you're actually on the bike. It also helps to leave the tie on for a few rides so you can actually see how much travel you are actually using on your rides.

magohn

Thanks sstorkel and paisan.

Im assuming its the coil spring version of the fork as I dont see a schrader valve anyplace, though Ive not really looked. I assembled the bike last night and just woke up - I will find out for sure post-coffee

Ah - I get you. Ive seen what look like rubber o-rings on other bike shocks. So when the shock compresses it moves the zip-tie down the leg of the shock and thats your depth? Clever! Is there a chart that details travel vs weight so Iset the fork to a certain pressure?

Also, I fitted the front caliper as part of the build - thanks for the tip I will re-route the cable.

Thanks guys

Hill-Pumper

First of all, nice looking bike!. Now if there is a schrader valve, it will be located on the bottom of the fork. You will need tip up the bike to see it the first time, but after that you are on you way.

paisan

It's hard to tell for certain but it looks like that's the coil version because of the knob at the top of the NDS stanchion, which should be your pre load adjuster.

magohn

So I checked the fork and no schrader valve so its a coiled spring type I guess. It also has a +/- dial on the shock crown that states 'Preload'.

To set the sag I:

1. Made sure the fork was unlocked.
2. Tied a zip-tie to one of the forks and had it pressed up against the top of the damper.
3. Climbed on the bike and supported myself by leaning against a wall in my natural riding position.
4. Dismounted and measured the amount of travel for the zip-tie with me on the bike - 32mm.

I think that's about right. Its a 120mm (sticker on the fork states '120mm - Medium') fork and I read the sag should be approx 25% of the total travel of the fork (120mm). So that would be:

If 25% = 32mm then:

4 x 32mm = 128mm

Shouldn't that be close enough?

Thanks for all your help guys - the fog is clearing

paisan

The usual range is 25-30% so you should be ok, besides that's a starting point anyway. Feel free to keep that zip tie on the fork and look at how much travel you are using on the trail and adjust based on how it feels to you and how much travel youre using. The goal is to find the sweet spot where the fork feels plush and absorbs the trail but doesn't bottom out unless it's a big hit/drop.

sstorkel

For a fork with 120mm of travel, sag should be in the 30-40mm range (25-30%) so it sounds like you're good to go!

magohn

Thanks again all. I rode 25 miles on regular roads today just to see how a longer ride felt. The bike ran like a dream. Cant say the same for the saddle - its gotta go .

Its a WTB saddle which I havent had luck with in the past. I have a spare Selle An-Atomica Titanico X (Clyde friendly) that Im going to throw on tomorrow. I used the saddle before but took it off when I sold the bike it was mounted to. Very comfy.

So again thanks! Especially for the info on travel/sag

magohn

Update:

A short video of yesterdays ride at Duthie Hill Park here in WA. What an awesome park. Thanks Clifton for the tips on finding the trail. It was not obvious! I actually thought the ride up to the 'Bootcamp' trail WAS the trail

The bike held up fantastically (Im 280lbs) and ran like a champ. I had one incident of the chain 'almost' coming off and one 'almost' wipeout but I caught myself. I think I have to tweak the limit to stop the chain running off the large rear sprocket.

The clicking in the video is from the GoPro. It makes a noise on the chest-mount if I dont tighten it enough. I rarely use the chest-mount as I feel a bit like a dork wearing it and forgot about the 'must tighten' issue.

It certainly was a workout. I dont know if it was fear or exertion but the sweat was rolling off of me. I live 17 miles from Duthie Hill park and could definitely see where this could get addictive. Most fun Ive had on a bike in a long time. I felt bad for my daughter as she tried her best but the 'easy' trail also needs a more capable bike than she was on. Sounds like another bike hunt maybe in my near future

The shocking thing was we were out for 90 mins on trails and probably only covered 4 miles Oh well - it was awesome and the bike was all I had hoped it would be. So nice to get some dirt on that shiny paint.

.be

Hill-Pumper

I'm glad that you got out for your first real mountain bike ride. After a while you will be blazing through trails like that without thinking about it. I also so you got your first crash out of the way. Don't worry, there will be others. If not, you are not riding hard enough. One other thing that you will notice over time is how riding mountain bikes with add some extra skills to road riding. Now go out and enjoy that bike some more!

jsigone

yah when you start riding on the mtb trails, mile numbers goes out the window. Just put in the time and not get caught up in numbers, that is what counts, not to mention having fun. Cool video of those trails

vesteroid

I was up at Northstar this weekend where there were about 2 million MTB'rs

i actually rode up the lifts to the top and watched them for about an hour.

Folks I personally just cant see the fun in that. Spend 3K on a fancy downhill bike, THEN put on enough armor to go to war, then pay lift fees to take my bike to the top, then ride down with no pedaling or real effort, and call myself a biker.

Part of the pleasure for me in riding is the pain of getting better.

I keep thinking to myself, if you want to impress me, pedal that bike up, THEN ride down.

CliftonGK1

Hehe. Yep, when I first brought a friend and her daughter out there, the entrance trail was already a bit of a system shock, since they hadn't done any trail riding before.
You'll get used to it over time, and when you're comfortable with Bootcamp you'll want to try Step It Up next. Like Bootcamp, you can go around any of the man-made obstacles; but there's more chances to jump or take some drop-offs if you want them.

Indeed. I find that riding the MTB isn't about quantity of miles, especially at the park. Quality counts. I've spent 4 hours out there and only done 10 miles... Repeat loops down 2-Hi, and ride back up the service road to the top. Down Ryan's Line, then back up the main trail to the start. A couple loops of Bootcamp and Step It Up, and make sure to take all the technical obstacle side routes. I get huffing and puffing on a lap of Movin' On, and that trail is only a little over a mile!