InOmaha

My road bike is an Aluminum 2000 Cannondale CAAD4 Team Saeco replica with a carbon fiber fork and mainly Dura Ace components from the last century. I'm suprised it hasn't steered itself to the dump out of embarassment.

I may be able to go a little faster on something newer, but I'm more limited by the rider than the bike. Faster isn't the end all be all to bike riding and if the components don't work smoothly it's my own fault since I'm my mechanic. This whole thread is like asking why choose a road bike over a mountain bike? Most people are N+1 and own at least one of everything.

cyccommute 

You missed the essential point. How many Salsa Casserolls did the shop have on the floor or in stock? Did they have one of each size (i.e. 6 bikes) on the floor? Did they have 2 to 6 of each size in stock ready to be built up? Same with the Velo Orange bikes. For comparison, how many other bikes that weren't steel did they have on the floor, ready to ride?

I have 3 dealers for Waterford in my area. I have a few Gunnar dealers in my area. I also have 6 Moots dealers in my area. But that doesn't mean that I can troop down to my local dealer and walk out with either a new Waterford, Gunnar or Moots today. That's not their business model.

I have more than 50 bike shops within 25 miles of me and I could walk into just about any of them and walk out with a Specialized, Trek, Giant, Felt, etc. in my size...aluminum or carbon...ready to ride today. But that's the business model for those companies and the shops have a stock of them and that's what sells.

Since I have more than 50 bike shops within 25 miles of me, I also have more then 50 Salsa, Surly and Velo Orange dealers within 25 miles of me. But that still doesn't mean that I can walk down to any of those more than 50 shops and walk out with any of those offerings today either. Again, that's not QBP or Velo Orange's business model.

Face it, steel as a frame material for bicycles occupies, roughly, the same place as titanium does. It's a niche market. It's not going to have a share of the market like it once did and it's about as relevant today as 27" wheels and friction shifters. Some people are going to buy steel frames but most people aren't...no matter how examples you can find of stores that sell a few steel bikes per year. The Pacer that sat on your shop's floor for a long time should tell you something.

Jarrett2

The thread has drifted, so riddle me this. I have been riding a Specialized Secteur for the last year. Just bought a Roubaix. According to my LBS, it's the same bike (geometry, fork, groupset) only one has an Aluminum frame and the other is Carbon Fiber. The CF Roubaix bike is noticeably lighter, more comfortable to ride and considerably faster with me on it.

Here are the specs:

Roubaix
FRAME: Specialized SL4 FACT 8r carbon, FACT construction,1-1/8" to 1-3/8" headtube, compact race design, Zertz,
FORK: Specialized Roubaix FACT carbon full monocoque, Zertz
CASSETTE: Shimano Tiagra, 10-speed, 12-30
CHAINRINGS: 50/34
WHEELS: Fulcrum S5
TIRES: Specialized Espoir Elite, 60TPI, foldable aramid bead, double BlackBelt protection, 700x25c

Secteur
FRAME: Specialized A1 Premium Aluminum Disc, fully manipulated tubing, 1-3/8" lower bearing, OSBB
FORK: Specialized FACT Disc carbon monocoque fork, carbon steerer and crown for 1-3/8" lower bearing, fender fittings
CASSETTE: Shimano Tiagra 10-speed, 12-30t
CHAINRINGS: 50/34
FRONT WHEEL: Axis CXD
FRONT TIRE: Specialized Roubaix Pro, 120TPI, aramid bead, 700x25/28c

If frame material makes little difference, why is the CF bike so much more comfortable and faster with me on it?

cyccommute 

Herein lies another part of the problem. You want a bike that lasts for a thousand years but why? Touring bike, although on a current upswing, suffer from the same problem. If everyone buys one bike in their lifetime (not you but many others fit that ticket), how are the manufacturers and bike shops to stay in business?

Bicycles have more or less followed Moore's law since the advent of the mass produced aluminum bicycle. The industry got a huge boost when mountain bikes came along and innovations have been hot and heavy since (for good and bad). Road bikes lagged behind for a number of years until carbon came on the scene and that has ignited another innovation explosion which is good for bicycling and bicyclist. Going back to the touring bike, there's a reason that that particular niche has languished when compared to mountain bikes and road bikes...touring bicyclists buy one bike that lasts them a lifetime.

cyccommute 

Don't take this the wrong way but are you really that much faster on the new bike than the old one? How much? Part of what you are experiencing happens to all of us when we get a new bike. We think we are faster but the difference is only minimal and, mostly, psychological. Your new bike is fresh and exciting so you enjoy it more and maybe push a little harder. If you could do a blind test, I doubt that the difference would be that noticeable.

To be clear, I'm not saying that frame material doesn't make a difference, just that in your case, given that the bikes are only a year apart and similarly equipped, the difference is probably smaller than you think.

LesterOfPuppets

Frame might last a lifetime but serious tourists are gonna spend plenty on cassettes, chains, rear derailleurs, barcons, panniers, etc...

For the most part it's pretty easy to keep going with the same bike for 30 years, but there are some bits that the industry makes obsolete.

Wanna get a NICE new bar for your quill stem road bike? You have approx 5 lowend choices (WAG, there).

How about a NICE 25.4mm MTB bar? Uhhhh.

Wanna get a straight steerer suspension fork? Your days are numbered.

Jarrett2

I track my ride stats pretty religiously and I've seen a 2.2 mph increase on my average speed on the same 20 mile route that I ride. Happened overnight and has been sustained ever since the purchase. I'd just like to know why.

Not to mention, why is it also noticeably more comfortable than my aluminum frame bike?

MRT2

They had the Casseroll, Vaya, and Fargo in several sizes as well as the Surly Pacer, Cross Check and Long Haul Trucker. When we went in a year later to buy a new bike for my wife, the Casseroll had sadly been discontinued but they were stocking the Jamis Satellite Sport, satellite Comp and Satellite Elite, and the Bossanova, again in several sizes. I do recall they did not have the Comp in my wife's size, but did have the Sport and Bossanova in her size.

i know most Trek dealers will carry maybe only a single model, the 520 in steel, but this particular shop, probably carries and sells as many or more steel bikes than it does aluminum bikes as it also sells a lot of Jamis Coda steel hybrids.

I know now steel is a niche, but maybe not as much of a niche as you make it out to be. I say ride what you like. A local Trek dealer has staked his reputation on my riding the new CF Domane, claims once I try it I will never go back to steel. Maybe someday I will take him up on his offer of a test ride.

MRT2

You switched from vintage steel to modern CF?

LesterOfPuppets

CF is supposedly more comfy than al. Aluminum has been considered pretty harsh for some time, seems like it is less so now compared to let's say a 1990 Cannondale road bike.

I'd guess the speed and comfort differences are at least half in your head. Maybe half tire choice/inflation for the comfort bit.

If you like it, you like it and that's all that matters.

Jarrett2

AL to CF

I guess my GPS is partial to the new bike as well.

LesterOfPuppets

Just being psyched about rolling a new plastic bike can give you enough placebo power to get that alleged average speed increase.

Jarrett2

I should have known better than to ask that question in this thread

LesterOfPuppets

Average speed discussions are the greatest things ever!

Bandera

You'll need to have the machines adjusted to exactly the same position & tire size/type/inflation w/ power meter(s), cyclo computer and heart rate monitor installed and logging data to a memory source for long term comparison. A log of body weight, environmental temperature & wind speed and a significant number of A/B comparisons over a controlled course are required to get meaningful stats. That's how one gets beyond conjecture to measure what is fastest & most efficient. Anything else is pure conjecture/magical thinking.

Glad that the new bike is comfortable for you, that matters and isn't measurable by external means.

-Bandera

Jarrett2

This is why I love internet discussion forums

Bandera

Making fact based comparisons of technology/performance takes a well disciplined methodology with good technology assisting, anything else is Magical Thinking and Myth.
Inquire in the Road Racing sub-forum regarding "How To".

-Bandera

chasm54

^^This. OP, check the weights of the two bikes. You'll see that the difference in the weight of you plus bike is far too small to account for a >10% difference in speed. And carbon doesn't somehow magically travel faster than aluminium.

However, if you are more comfortable on the new bike you'll be able to put out more power. And if your position is better on the new bike than the old one you may well be in a slightly more aerodynamic position, which matters a great deal. If I move from riding on the hoods to being in the drops I'll get an immediate increase in speed for the same effort because of reduced wind resistance. Being in a better position on one bike than on the other will have a similar effect.

Jarrett2

Without access to NASA's labs, I'll just have to be happy with my magical increases I guess.

Leebo

Because it is red?

himespau 

^^^That'd do it.

cyccommute 

There are just too many variables to say. It could be the Zertz in the Roubaix fork and frame...they might follow the road a little bit closer. It could be the carbon or a combination of the carbon and the Zertz. It could be the tires. Your position could be different. There are any number of factors that have an effect on comfort which is a subjective measurement at best.

The speed increase could still be due to the "newness" and the fact that you like the bike better, i.e. in your head, so you push a little harder. Maybe you corner with a bit more confidence (I often find that I can gain a lot of distance on people during my commute simply by taking corners faster.) Or it may be due to the other factors above plus the way you feel about the bike. There are just too many variables to attribute the changes to a single cause.

Jarrett2

Fair enough. Thanks.

Drew Eckhardt 

Perfect fit, exactly the gearing I want, great aesthetics, would cost at least $4000 to replace with a newer Campagnolo Record equipped bike which would mean a big hit in the looks department.

If I ever get down to my optimum 145 pound climbing weight and care to contest a hill climb I'll consider building a 10-15 pound carbon bike for the 2.5 - 6% speed increase.

Without that any performance increase would be meaningless.

Sullalto

Isn't that Trek's only steel bike? Can't hate on the dealer for that.