Another +1 to pulling forward and to the left to allow cars to make a right hand turn behind me. If it doesn't put me at additional risk, why not be courteous to drivers? If I were driving, I would appreciate it. Some light cycles are two minutes!

I'm glad that at the vast majority of roads here in Japan cars are not allowed to turn left on red lights (opposite side of the road). I don't have to worry about holding up some salary man. Still get the people who start to signal as they turn...

Oh, the humanity! What is the big deal about having to wait? If I was in my car they'd have to wait. I'm on my bike, so the cager has to wait, boo hoo! I'm not risking my life for a global warming gas spewing asshat's convenience.

And the person in front of you considers you a dick because you can't wait 30 seconds to sit your impatient ass in line and wait for the light to change. It is the responsibility of the person in front of you to neither accommodate you nor make sure you get to your destination 30 seconds earlier.

I usually stop about 50 feet from the intersection when the light is red to avoid this type of situation .

So you would rather the global warming gas spewing asshat sit at the light longer and spew more gas and warm more globe?

I hope this is just a question of poor phrasing, and the intent is that no one has an obligation to accommodate you and not that we have a responsibility to be willfully spiteful all the time.

It's interesting how social attitudes change when cars are involved. If you're standing in a line that runs past a door, and someone comes by wanting to enter, he gives you the nod, or says "excuse me" and people adjust so he can get past. Failure to do so would brand one as a jerk. But get into cars, and some take the attitude of "screw you, why should I have to do you the grand favor of moving a few feet so you can get by".

The person in front of me I'm sure is 99% of the time completely unaware of me, which is the problem. And for blocking left-turn lanes it's not a question of just waiting for the light to change, it's a question of, can I make this light cycle, or do I have to wait for the next light cycle

Ah man, I expected an argument out of this, good on you. I suspect you are right on count 1, on count 2 you are also right but the context of the discussion is turning right. If the person blocking you from turning right is honestly not aware that you are behind them, do you really consider that person a dick?

If a person stops with plenty of rom forward in such a way as to restrict folks behind from passing into a turn lane, I put them into the same category as folks who stand at the bottom of escalators, or have conversations near doorways. Not jerks, but situationally unaware. OTOH - refusing to move if asked makes them jerks.

Depends. If it's a minivan with a mom trying to handle some rowdy kids or something, then she's got other stuff going on. If it's (more likely nowadays) somebody texting, and likely to not notice when the light changes anyways, yes. (Although I guess better to be oblivious when stopped than when driving...)

Yes.


I hope this is just a question of poor sentence structure.

You are comparing two very different contexts, i.e. on instance occurs with those involved inside vehicles and the other they are not. People don't need to be polite on the road, they need to follow the rules and realize that even if they were to get ahead by 1 minute at intersection a, they will probably just end up stopping at intersection b or c, so the extra time gained is for naught.

At a busy 3 or 4 way intersection, things can get hairy when some joker starts waiving people through out-of-turn. When I am involved, I put my foot on the ground and make sure that those ahead of me go ahead of me. It is not the responsibility of the first arriver at that intersection to accommodate anyone, it is his job to follow the rules. Just like the person waiting at the head of the right turn lane; it is not his responsibility to accommodate anyone, it is his job to follow the rules. Things tend to work smoothly when people just shut up and follow the rules.

in NYC there is no right on red, it's not allowed. there's a space between the cars going straight and the crosswalk that cyclists can move into. they are directly in front of cars going straight and have right of way once the light turns green. in general, we try not to get left hooked or right hooked, there's a "mixing zone" we share with cars to avoid that. but if the lane is on the right, there is usually no safe place to move - no car has ever asked me to move and if they did i would probably say no, there's typically no safe way of executing such a move. they usually yield and wait for me to go before making their right turn. hope this helps clarify what happens in NYC.

This sums up your attitude very succinctly. If you remember the original issue, it related to moving over (or forward) so a car behind you could make a right turn. This isn't a question of unnecessarily stopping to waive someone through an intersection, which I agree might create problems. This is a simple question of extending a fellow road user a courtesy at no expense to yourself or any other road users.

You clearly feel no obligation to do so, and I agree that there's no obligation, but I do so anyway because it's the way I am. Sometimes it's not about finding a reason why, but not finding a reason why not.

That would be stupid anyway.

That would be enough for most passenger cars if you scootch over to the left. If they're so impatient that they want to drive onto the sidewalk to keep going, that's on them.

Whenever possible, I'll not only get to the center or left portion of the rightmost through lane in order to let right-turning cars pass, I'll look back and attempt to wave them through. It costs me nothing.

But there's only so much you can do with some intersections -- I think you set yourself up to look like a dick in this thread by leaving details out of your OP.

If I'm at the front waiting for a light, I'm in the left-hand side of the lane anyway. Sometimes there's room for right-turners, sometimes not. I've never been asked to move over.

... and that attitude right there is part of the problems on today's roads. The fireworks ensue when someone like this gets tangled up with someone else's "F-U, I'll do what I want" attitude. Sometimes leading to tragic results such as Woman Accused of Running Down Navy Chief Petty Officer in Road Rage Killing: CHP | NBC 7 San Diego

And, there's the end of the discussion. If that's the foundation of your (and OP's) approach to cycle-commuting (and shared use of roads in general), then all other 'discussion' of details is merely talking past each other.

You're making my point for me. Were the rules followed? Nope. You are erroneously assuming that I take the opposite end of the argument being made, when in fact I mean to take the middle ground of neutrality. We're talking about commuting here, not philanthropy or altruism, for fook's sake stop all this "well they should be nice to me while I'm riding my bike" and "well I'm nicer to other people on the road than you." Sounds like a little girl's tea party up in here.

Astute observation.

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less about them one way or the other, they need to wait their turn. I don't need to take risks to save them a few minutes, sorry....

How is scooting to the left of the same lane while stopped at a red light a risk?

You are assuming I feel that way, although I will grant you that it is an assumption easily made. My comments are in response to those in this thread who express discontent when someone does not let them through.

Let me boil it down for you, because you are having trouble going back through previous posts: it is dumb for you (hypothetical) to get pissed at someone else who doesn't extend you a courtesy when they are under no obligation to do so. Generally, when everyone just shuts up and follows the rules, these things tend to work themselves out. I am guessing that, in intersections with such a design which accommodates this example, the local statues regulating traffic would mandate that drivers do 2 things: 1) not ride the curb and 2) pull all the way up to the front of the intersection when waiting for a light. This would obviously allow a cyclist to pass, and in the case of there being a turning lane, this would give room for those to merge into said turning lane. No courtesies needed if everyone just follows the rules. I say this for purpose of illustration, not to be taken as a literal example.

However, this is all general and hypothetical, written as a response to those who feel entitled to courtesy from everyone else around them on the road; I do not reply these things as a matter of demonstrating my own actions on the road. Since you think I am so against extending courtesy to others, then what the hell was I thinking earlier this week when I pulled over, got out of my vehicle, and jogged across a small parking lot to let a departing car know that he had a very low tire?

When I leave work, I often see a single amputee, wheelchair-bound veteran who, for all intents and purposes lives at the hospital, is usually on his way to have a smoke outside. One of the few enjoyable things he has left in his life. Before the next time I offer to push him out to the smoke shack and give him some friendly conversation like I usually do, you might want to let him know that I'm actually a fraud/******* who doesn't believe in giving courtesy to others.

Extended rear view mirror, errant vehicle driving into cross walk are a few easy ones. *Getting squeezed on the right side from the next car going straight is a common issue.

Again, what's the big deal waiting for the next cycle? BTW, now that I live in a polite community (instead of Chicago) it's never an issue, drivers just wait their turn, as they should.

So much anger. And using such terms conveniently depersonalizes the driver, who could be anybody and in a different setting might be your best friend.

As I've gotten older I've learned that I make myself happier when I am kind and courteous to other people. If I can be nice to someone at no inconvenience to myself, why wouldn't I do so? I do it for me as well as for them.

Peace, out.

Trolling helps me pass time at work

• jfowler85