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CO2 inflators

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Old 07-27-15 | 10:54 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Leebo
What happens when you get two flats? I love my topeak road morph pump.
+1. The road morph is a very handy pump. I can easily and quickly inflate my tires to 90psi.
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Old 07-27-15 | 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Leebo
What happens when you get two flats? I love my topeak road morph pump.
+1,256,899 The Road Morph will inflate your tire ALL the way, as many times as needed and is small and easy to use.
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Old 07-27-15 | 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by phughes
+1,256,899 The Road Morph will inflate your tire ALL the way, as many times as needed and is small and easy to use.
What happens if you get two flats and the Road Morph breaks?
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Old 07-27-15 | 11:25 AM
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Just carry around an air compressor!
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Old 07-27-15 | 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict
Carry half-dozen cartridges.
Why? My pump works fine. I see nothing wrong with using them if you want, but I see no reason for me. I know the pump will always work. I just go for the simple approach, that's just a personal decision on my part. Of course on my 26 inch wheeled LHT, the Road Morph fits nicely behind the seat tube.
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Old 07-27-15 | 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by phughes
Why? My pump works fine. I see nothing wrong with using them if you want, but I see no reason for me. I know the pump will always work. I just go for the simple approach, that's just a personal decision on my part. Of course on my 26 inch wheeled LHT, the Road Morph fits nicely behind the seat tube.
Yeah, I should clarify that the pump I carry is a Mini Morph, can get the tube topped off no problem.

Cheaper/less capable hand pumps might not.
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Old 07-27-15 | 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ShortLegCyclist
Yeah, I should clarify that the pump I carry is a Mini Morph, can get the tube topped off no problem.

Cheaper/less capable hand pumps might not.
Yeah, it doesn't pay to buy a cheap pump, it may not work when you need it.
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Old 07-27-15 | 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict
Carry half-dozen cartridges.
At that point you're taking up more space and weight than a decent pump.
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Old 07-27-15 | 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ShortLegCyclist
My understanding is that it has to do with the partial pressure gradient, in other words, there is such a much higher concentration of CO2 in the tire after you inflate it than in the ambient air that the CO2 tries to escape to equilibrate that imbalance.

When you pump up with air, you create a gradient due to the higher pressure, but it's not as extreme as the gradient between pressurized 100% CO2 and the partial pressure of ambient CO2 in the atmosphere.
Good point. The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is something like 0.04%. An inner tube with close to 100% CO2 will have an incredibly steep gradient to force those molecules through the tube.
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Old 07-27-15 | 05:43 PM
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I would never rely on CO2 cartridges, a pump is much better. What happens if your new tube is defective or gets damaged during install and you end up wasting your CO2 cartridge ??... CO2 inflators are a waste of money.
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Old 07-27-15 | 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
I'm not a fan of CO2 inflators. They are what seems silly to me. Give me a pump any day, they are more reliable and don't generate waste.
Agree. An answer to a question no one asked. A 'mini-blaster' type hand pump is barely bigger than a CO2 system that is locked and loaded but far more versatile. If you have a bad seal when you seat the gas cartridge you've shot your wad. Does not work for me. I have enough trouble taking pressure readings off car tires at the gas station.
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Old 07-27-15 | 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by grolby
Good point. The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is something like 0.04%. An inner tube with close to 100% CO2 will have an incredibly steep gradient to force those molecules through the tube.
NO!!!! Pressure is pressure. There is no other pressure than the 80psi that the tire is pumped to. The actual concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is irrelevant.
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Old 07-27-15 | 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
Wait, air is 70% nitrogen. Are you saying that CO2 molecules are smaller than nitrogen atoms and therefore leak out faster? That sound HIGHLY dubious to me. In fact it sounds completely implausible. If that's not the reason I'd love to hear the mechanism behind CO2 being leakier than nitrogen.
Yes, CO2 (a carbon with two oxygens attached by double bonds) is not going to be physically smaller than either the N2 or O2 in normal air. But chemically it behaves quite differently. N2 is essentially inert with respect to the hydrocarbon compounds in your tube rubber, so the nitrogen molecules just bounce off the inside wall of the tube and are unlikely to ever work their way through and escape to the outside air. OTOH, the CO2 molecule with its O=C=O double bonds can temporarily form a chemical attachment to the rubber molecules in the tube and effectively stick to the tube surface. From there some of them can gradually migrate through the tube and diffuse through the material until they emerge at the outer surface and escape into the air. The effect is clearly evident if you keep track of your daily pressure loss after filling with a CO2 cartridge in comparison with using an air pump.
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Old 07-28-15 | 07:26 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
I'm not a fan of CO2 inflators. They are what seems silly to me. Give me a pump any day, they are more reliable and don't generate waste.
Originally Posted by Leebo
What happens when you get two flats? I love my topeak road morph pump.
Originally Posted by wolfchild
I would never rely on CO2 cartridges, a pump is much better. What happens if your new tube is defective or gets damaged during install and you end up wasting your CO2 cartridge ??... CO2 inflators are a waste of money.
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Agree. An answer to a question no one asked. A 'mini-blaster' type hand pump is barely bigger than a CO2 system that is locked and loaded but far more versatile. If you have a bad seal when you seat the gas cartridge you've shot your wad. Does not work for me. I have enough trouble taking pressure readings off car tires at the gas station.
I firmly believe the nay-saying about CO2 inflators is overstated and over-thought, much of the time by those who have never used them or have very limited use.

I used to fall into that category and only carried a pump. When I got a flat, especially on a hot day, I cursed the time and effort needed to inflate the tire to ride-able pressure.

Then I switched to the hybrid pump/inflator I posted, above. The few times I got flats, <PSHT> with the CO2 cartridge and done. Incredible how fast it goes in. It's not at all hard to get things right with the tire so that's the end of the story. Never once needed the pump bit of the tool as backup, which is why I rarely use it anymore. I also carry a patch kit for when that second tube fails -- even if you use a pump and get something wrong which damages the spare tube, if you don't have a patch kit, you are still SOOL.

So for short rides, my minimalist flat repair kit is: inflator head, CO2 cartridge, self-adhesive patch kit, tire lever.
For my regular commute, I add a second cartridge and a spare tube.
For all day rides or touring, I add a pump and a vulcanizing patch kit.

To each their own. I don't fault people for preferring pumps over CO2 inflators; but I do take issue with those dumping on CO2 inflators when they are indeed a perfectly valid option to carrying a pump.
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Old 07-28-15 | 07:35 AM
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My complaint against CO2 is completely based on waste. I try to have as small a footprint as possible, it's one of the primary reasons I ride. Tossing out a CO2 cylinder a couple times a month when I don't need to, in addition to having to buy them (shipping them all over the country/world to get to me) only adds to that.
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Old 07-28-15 | 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
My complaint against CO2 is completely based on waste. I try to have as small a footprint as possible, it's one of the primary reasons I ride. Tossing out a CO2 cylinder a couple times a month when I don't need to, in addition to having to buy them (shipping them all over the country/world to get to me) only adds to that.
You get flats that often that you would be throwing out CO2 cylinders a couple of times a month?
I have no problem with someone not wanting to add to the amount of waste in this world, but I don't see myself using the CO2 cylinders that often. If I did, I think I would consider changing my route.
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Old 07-28-15 | 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
My complaint against CO2 is completely based on waste. I try to have as small a footprint as possible, it's one of the primary reasons I ride. Tossing out a CO2 cylinder a couple times a month when I don't need to, in addition to having to buy them (shipping them all over the country/world to get to me) only adds to that.
I run tires with flat protection and it's a rare year that I get more than two flats. Most years, one or none. I certainly don't mind tossing a cartridge or two into the recycle bin once or twice each year. If it was a couple times each month, I might consider the waste an issue and carry a pump instead.
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Old 07-28-15 | 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by NOLABIKER
You get flats that often that you would be throwing out CO2 cylinders a couple of times a month?
I have no problem with someone not wanting to add to the amount of waste in this world, but I don't see myself using the CO2 cylinders that often. If I did, I think I would consider changing my route.
Pinch flats, and the alternative route around here that has good enough roads to not get pinch flats is "drive the car" or "drive the utility bike which weighs 40 pounds."

It's not a big deal, I'm not in any hurry, a couple of flats a month doesn't bother me really. I'm really good at patching tubes. I have one tube with 8 patches on it. Eventually I always wind up getting one too close to the stem or something and can't patch anymore.
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Old 07-28-15 | 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict
Quintuple redundancy (fail-safe)
I got that, but my point was, why not just carry a pump. I understand the convenience of a C02 inflator. They can be very easy to carry when on a road bike or other bike with limited carry options, but for a commuter bike a pump is easy to carry, and if you get a good pump, inflation is easy.

All that being said, if you carry a C02 inflator, you are right, multiple cartridges is the smart move.

Last edited by phughes; 07-28-15 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 07-28-15 | 10:20 AM
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I love cart vs pump threads!

CO2 is faster, smaller, and lighter - pumps have somewhat of a reliability advantage and no waste.

CO2 doesn't exactly "leak" out of the tubes, it diffuses through the rubber - everyone who uses CO2 knows of this issue but it's unlikely to be a problem so long as you can pump up with air within a day or so.

You guys who play the waste card though - if a couple carts per year would represent a significant increase in your landfill contribution, I salute your commitment to the environment.

Last edited by DiabloScott; 07-28-15 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 07-28-15 | 10:39 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by phughes
I got that, but my point was, why not just carry a pump. I understand the convenience of a C02 inflator. They can be very easy to carry when on a road bike or other bike with limited carry options, but for a commuter bike a pump is easy to carry, and if you get a good pump, inflation is easy.

All that being said, if you carry a C02 inflator, you are right, multiple cartridges is the smart move.
On any bike, weight is weight and volume is volume, and while a pump would be a very small percentage of my commuter bike + gear, it's still something. Since a CO2 inflator has been successfully fulfilling my needs for going on 6 years straight, why carry a pump?

Pump is clunkier to carry, and/or messes up the aesthetics of my bike, adds another theft prone thing to take off the bike if I'm locking it up outside, and as easy as inflation might be with the right pump, it is guaranteed not as easy or as fast as a CO2 inflator.

All this having been said, I do occasionally carry the Bontrager equivalent of the TopPeak Road Morph when the tires of my lockup bike at the other end of a bike-bus-bike commute needs air...
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Old 07-28-15 | 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott
You guys who play the waste card though - if a couple carts per year would represent a significant increase in your landfill contribution, I salute your commitment to the environment.
If you shrug off the waste represented by a couple of cartridges, you're probably willing to shrug off other small amounts of waste here and there. But it all adds up.

So you could turn the argument around. If you're conscientious enough to not use CO2 because of the waste, you're probably conscientious enough that you're already minimizing waste in other aspects of your life.
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Old 07-28-15 | 10:42 AM
  #48  
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I have a thing about stuff that needs replacing so I have never been interested in CO2.

A frame pump just seems so much easier and probably weights about the same as a few of those cylinders (assuming weight is an issue) and it always works...
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Old 07-28-15 | 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by rmfnla
I have a thing about stuff that needs replacing so I have never been interested in CO2.

A frame pump just seems so much easier and probably weights about the same as a few of those cylinders (assuming weight is an issue) and it always works...
The other thing a pump lets you do is not worry about helping somebody else out with a flat. Same with a patch kit rather than just spare tubes.
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Old 07-28-15 | 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by tjspiel
The other thing a pump lets you do is not worry about helping somebody else out with a flat. Same with a patch kit rather than just spare tubes.
And it makes it easy to inflate the tube just a little before installing it...
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