bikinglife

Hi,

I just recently started cycling in the winter for the first time.
Low and behold I turned my bicycle and flopped right onto the ground after catching some black ice. Didn't really get hurt too bad, a bit of pain the next day but it's gone.

I started being careful about leaning and turning , trying to keep the bike upright as much as possible... Is there any other basic tips for someone new to riding on ice?


Thanks

tjspiel

Studded tires. Seriously. They are available for bikes. Lots of people in this forum use them.

Steely Dan

black ice can easily take down even the most skilled of cyclists.

the only way to obtain some black ice insurance is to buy a set of studded tires.

they're not infallible, but they will give you a FAR larger margin of control on black ice than a conventional tire.

for icy plowed streets i highly recommend the schwalbe marathon winter. they're not the best snow tires around, but they will chew ice up and spit it out with their 240 studs.

Jim from Boston

+10, see this recently re-awoken thread, ”Black ice: the invisible enemy.”

+1 (at least), IMO

Leebo

Studded tires. They work well.

jrickards

Black ice has the strange property of being a gravity well: when your bike tires slip on it, you go down about 10x faster than normal.

Yes, studded tires (there are options other than the Marathon Winters but all are better than none), ride more slowly, stay more upright when you turn (but then, when you're riding more slowly, you're less likely to bank into a turn), avoid black ice (forehead slap!) and wear a helmet.

79pmooney

And ... have your skates sharpened really sharp! The black ice on ponds is really hard and really strong. A half inch is plenty strong. (If you fall, it may give an inch, but it won't break.) Drawback to those sharp skates? You will be tripping over the blades if you take them to your usual hockey rink with the 40 degree air over the ice.

I grew up next to a pond. Loved getting on the black ice. It only stayed black until the first warm day, then it was the usual grey. but while it lasted, it was magic to skate on. Not as good for hockey, You spent a lot of time chasing down pucks that would travel forever.

Ben

tjspiel

Don't know that I would skate on a half inch of ice but have many fond memories of skating on clear ice early in the season. Lived next to a lake. Could sometimes see fish when skating over shallow water. A little freaky.

A slight breeze was enough to propel you for miles.

Then you had to skate back.

bikinglife

Thanks for the tips... it seems like studded tires are the way to go

Would you guys recommend using just front tire?

Or is it a must to have both studded?

any good recommendations for 26 inch ?

bikinglife

amen to that. i fell (speed of the fall was scary to be honest) and continued pedalling after getting up (the adrenaline threw me back on my bike in light speed) in a total of like 1.5 second. Weird, but exciting.

tjspiel

It's much butter to have one on the front than none at all but if you can swing it, two is the way to go.

For mostly ice Marathon Winters are a pretty good tire that don't slow you down as much as other studded tires do. I didn't find them to be so great in the snow.

I use Nokians but 45Nrth tires look pretty good too.

rhm

Studded tires are really great on ice. I've had a great time riding around on a frozen pond, leaning in to turns, all kinds of fun.

On pavement, not so much fun. Judging by the remarks above, I don't have very nice ones (not a surprise; I got them pretty cheap). But I hate them. I have them on a dedicated winter bike that I rode for about a week last winter, and was very happy when I could go back to the usual bike.

So, with that in mind, my advice is to learn where the black ice is going to be. If you're riding the same route every day, you should already know where the road is likely to be wet in the morning; well, that's where the black ice will be. I usually encounter it in March, when warm afternoons lead to snow melt that continues to trickle across the road during the night, when it freezes to black ice. Treacherous black ice, ftw!

MichaelW

DIY studded tyre work well if your ice season is short.
There are times when the roads are generally clear, so no-one uses studs, but black ice and road frost lurks. You get cold micro-climates in small dips and hollows in the road, esp ones shaded by trees. If you commute you should keep an eye on your road surface micro-climates. Frosty mornings can be good for IDing cold spots

Leebo

I use the Nokian mount and grounds in 26 x 1.95. They work well with decent tread. More PSI for good conditions, less for more ice and snow. Lower psi flattens out the tire for more contact. 2 tires only. I'm on my 5th season for these @ about $ 60.00 US per tire. They should last 5-10 seasons.

noglider 

I bought studded tires for this winter and can't wait to try them. I got the really nice Schwalbe tires. It hasn't dipped below freezing yet.

FBinNY 

For those who've never encountered black ice, or even visible wet ice, here's a short description of the experience.

First of all think back to that trick wherein somebody yanks the table cloth out from the full service and nothing is knocked over.

That's just about what happens with black ice. With zero friction your wheels shoot out from under you as fast as a cartoon banana out of it's peel. You don't fall sideways in the classic fashion, but instead almost straight down along your initial course. Often your first realization that your in trouble is when you hit the pavement. Total elapsed time from when the tires first begin to slip to impact at almost 20kph = about 1/2 second, which isn't much time to react (not that it would help).

As for those who say you fall faster, I agree, it definitely seems that way, even if it isn't.

BTW- other than studded tires, or some other traction improving system, there's no way to prepare. Once steering traction is gone nothing you could do, even if you had the skills and reflexes, can alter the outcome.

HardyWeinberg

One time my wife went down hard enough on black ice that a car pulled over and the driver got out to see if she was OK, and he immediately went down off his feet and slid down the hill toward her. Fortunately she was close enough to home to be able to hobble back. She no longer rides past daylight savings time. In general on black ice days it becomes apparent before making it off our block so it's never an issue to be too far from home when you go down that hard and fast. Which I have not done since getting studded tires. I suppose one studded tire could prevent too many wipeouts but you really need two to both stay upright and keep it moving in the direction you want.

jrickards

Except that, in contrast with your comparison, *you* get knocked over.

Agreed with all of it (despite my joking comment above).

It is easier to control a rear tire slip than a front tire slip. But worse than that, when you're on black ice, a tire slip is not necessarily in the direction you're going like putting the brakes on hard (on a regular day) would do; your tire(s) could slip forwards or sideways on black ice and it's the sideways slip that topples you so fast.

As an added note, some people put zip ties on their wheels/tires to cheaply improve traction but if it works, it would only work in snow, the plastic of the zip ties would be just as slippery or more so than unstudded tires.

rhm

I remember one time when I was in high school I was riding home from a friend's house late at night. As I neared a sharp corner that I had to take, I saw there was a girl walking her dog near the corner and, being 17, I hoped she saw me. So I took the corner fast, in a confident showoffy kind of way. And just as I was leaning into it, my rear wheel hit a patch of black ice and slid out from under me. In the smallest fraction of a second, my body headed for the ground--- but then my rear wheel hit dry asphalt again, and my bike instantly righted itself, though I was now heading in the wrong direction. Some exclamations escaped me as I just barely avoided hitting the curb. Within a second I was on my way again, accelerating away from the location as fast as possible, hoping the girl hadn't seen me.

jrickards

You can bet she saw you!!

wphamilton

You can skate straight across if you're not leaning in the slightest amount. That doesn't work on turns though.

If you can react fast enough, in 1/2 second as FB said since there is no warning, you want to twist your body opposite the fall so that you land on the back side of the shoulder and the muscle of your hip, slapping the ground with your inside arm and hand if possible. A slap, not thrust out under you. That's better than going straight down and landing on the shoulder (risks broken clavicle if it hits just wrong). It's hard to do in .5 seconds but not impossible.

jrickards

Like a judo fall

FBinNY 

Yes, there's maybe some ability to manage the fall, but very little. As I noted these happen very quickly. However inertia works in your favor. There's not much torque applied to your body, so you don't get the 90° rotation that would have you hitting shoulder first. IME (fairly extensive with ice and black ice) these falls usually have you landing hip or thigh first, and the natural action tends to give you the necessary rotation to the back of the shoulder whether you try or not.

In one of my first serious high speed crashes -- a wet steed deck bridge at 25"mph, I was down about as fast as on black ice, and the damage evidence shows that the point of impact was squarely on my shoulder blade, rather than the side.

On the bright side, black ice falls happen in the winter, when you're presumably wearing some more padding than you would in July. I've never been injured by any of my many ice caused falls, other than that shaken up feeling you get from the impact. My concern about black ice isn't hitting the pavement, but who or what may be behind me and whether they're on the same patch of ice or not.

wphamilton

All of my slips have been from some turning maneuver, and the point of the shoulder is on an arc direct to ground. I wouldn't say "very little" ability to manage the fall, because if you're quick enough to do the technique you'll be OK, every time, excluding some extraneous factor. Circling the arm out to slap will torque your body, which is one reason why you should always try to do that even if you mis-time it. Just falling free without reacting, I hit on the shoulder point, every time, the last time resulting in a break. You're probably positioning yourself during the fall without consciously realizing it.

wphamilton

Exactly like except that it's hard to get the feet involved on the low-side slide-out, for me at least.