Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Commuting
Reload this Page >

What do you do rolling up to a red light?

Search
Notices
Commuting Bicycle commuting is easier than you think, before you know it, you'll be hooked. Learn the tips, hints, equipment, safety requirements for safely riding your bike to work.

What do you do rolling up to a red light?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-12-16 | 08:21 PM
  #26  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,441
Likes: 235
I cautiously head to the front of the line, where everyone can see me and judge how fast I am traveling as I proceed through the turn. Typically, I act as a crossing guard here, too, directing the cars to pass me, assuring them that I can see them and will not make any dangerous, unexpected moves.

I absolutely HATE when motorcyclists do this, but they are typically traveling at the same speed as automobiles, so there's no good reason.
Papa Tom is offline  
Reply
Old 02-12-16 | 09:39 PM
  #27  
canklecat's Avatar
Me duelen las nalgas
10 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,519
Likes: 2,832
From: Texas

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Usually I'll get behind a car turning left to let them break the way. And I'll stand while pedaling to create a more noticeable profile. Not a big deal with most ordinary four way intersections, but my area has a couple of starfish intersections with five or more possible paths, so following a lead car helps establish my direction more clearly for other drivers.
canklecat is offline  
Reply
Old 02-13-16 | 06:01 AM
  #28  
Senior Member
10 Anniversary
 
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,086
Likes: 332
From: Treasure Coast, FL

Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Supersix EVO 3, 2015 Trek 520, 2017 Bike Friday Pocket Rocket, 2022 Moots Vamoots Disc RSL

Originally Posted by rmfnla
I firmly believe in NOT taking place in line; always thought that's a good way to get rear-ended.

I go to the front on the right side of the left turn lane and wait slightly in front of the first car.

I also signal my intention to turn.

If the oncoming driver is too stupid to deal with that hopefully they will figure it out after I've made the turn and the world hasn't ended...
This is exactly what I do. If the left turning lane is long and I get in line, I'm afraid that an impatient driver will try to go around me and sideswipe me. I was also reading one of the Bicycle Magazine's on-line articles about legal things cyclists do and why and this was one of them. They recommended splitting the lanes on the right side of the left turning lane and going to the front.
Bassmanbob is offline  
Reply
Old 02-14-16 | 08:55 AM
  #29  
jfowler85's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,826
Likes: 0
From: Zinj

Bikes: '93 911 Turbo 3.6

Originally Posted by aERonAUtical96
So I've had this happen a couple times now so I'm curious what others do. Approaching a red light with cars and I am turning left. Normally I lane split to get to the front. I proceed on the green arrow. The cars across the intersection tend to "freeze" when they see me take off... they think I'm going straight even tho I'm in the left turn lane. If I notice them, I will give a signal that I'm going left.

My question/thought... do you head to the front of the line? Do you tuck in behind the first or 2nd car? Do you just get in position wherever it happens to be? I'm thinking of stopping myself from moving to the front of the line if I'm turning. By sitting behind a car or two, I guess I get a little protection and if I take off I can sit on their bumper until I get through the turn.


Opinions?
This is wrong. You need to be well aware of the entire intersection going in, ie before you get there, and conspicuously signal with your entire arm for everyone to see. I also filter to the front if I'm more than 2 cars back; when I get to the front I stick my lanky arm out to the left and repeat that again right before the light turns. Drivers will freak out if they don't know what you're doing, and the last thing you want is someone behaving erratically because they assume you are going to do something stupid.

Originally Posted by rmfnla
I firmly believe in NOT taking place in line; always thought that's a good way to get rear-ended.

I go to the front on the right side of the left turn lane and wait slightly in front of the first car.

I also signal my intention to turn.

If the oncoming driver is too stupid to deal with that hopefully they will figure it out after I've made the turn and the world hasn't ended...
2 problems here:

1) you can't accelerate as fast as car can, which puts you in the middle of a traffic line with which you cannot keep pace. This is dangerous and pisses people off, leading to like aggressive/punish passing by dumbasses on their way to Starbucks. That is, unless you live in Oregon...nicest drivers I've ever encountered were in around Bend and also Coos Bay.

2) cycling in traffic on the hope that stupid drivers will just "figure it out" is asking for trouble. You should ride proactively and defensively.

Last edited by jfowler85; 02-14-16 at 09:08 AM.
jfowler85 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-15-16 | 12:52 PM
  #30  
RubeRad's Avatar
Keepin it Wheel
10 Anniversary
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Active Streak: 30 Days
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,964
Likes: 5,224
From: San Diego

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus

Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
Lane splitting or filtering is not legal most places in the States. Here in California it is legal between dotted line traffic lanes, but going up the side of a left turn lane counts as passing on the right and is illegal.
Really? I've only ever heard that lane-splitting is legal in CA (for bikes and motorcycles)

I always split, riding the paintstripe between the forward-going lanes and the left-turn lanes. I position myself forward of all cars, at the front of the crosswalk, straight ahead of the lane line. There always seems to be plenty of room for me to turn way wider than left-turning cars, and not get close to oncoming left-turning cars.
RubeRad is offline  
Reply
Old 02-15-16 | 02:07 PM
  #31  
Darth Lefty's Avatar
Disco Infiltrator
Titanium Club Membership
10 Anniversary
Community Builder
Active Streak: 30 Days
 
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 15,328
Likes: 3,518
From: Folsom CA

Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem

Originally Posted by RubeRad
Really? I've only ever heard that lane-splitting is legal in CA (for bikes and motorcycles)
If you want to split hairs: There is no law that allows lane sharing/splitting/filtering. There's only no law to prohibit it. The motorcycle handbook is weasely, implying that it's inadvisable without saying anything about what's permissible. The driver handbook does not mention it at all. This is how everyone seems to like it. We have a lot of 2-lane left turn lanes around here and it's pretty unclear what you are allowed to do. It seems like the answer is "whatever you think will work just don't piss anyone off"
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
"Well, well!" said Holmes, impatiently. "A good cyclist does not need a high road. The moor is intersected with paths and the moon is at the full."
Darth Lefty is offline  
Reply
Old 02-15-16 | 03:31 PM
  #32  
joeyduck's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,014
Likes: 0
From: Nanaimo, BC

Bikes: 1997 Kona Hahana Race Light, 2010 Surly LHT(deceased), 1999 Rocky Mountain Turbo

I had a conversation with a taxi driver about filtering this morning, but dealing with right turns. He was curious who would be at fault if a cyclist rolled up on the right of a right turning car and got hit. I told him it is a real gray area that I don't think it's legal but there is nothing really saying you can't filter either.
joeyduck is offline  
Reply
Old 02-15-16 | 03:43 PM
  #33  
PatrickGSR94's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 7,391
Likes: 13
From: Memphis TN area

Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)

Originally Posted by joeyduck
I had a conversation with a taxi driver about filtering this morning, but dealing with right turns. He was curious who would be at fault if a cyclist rolled up on the right of a right turning car and got hit. I told him it is a real gray area that I don't think it's legal but there is nothing really saying you can't filter either.
That's the problem with many edge bike lanes, because they lead many cyclists to do exactly that. In 49 states, motorists are also required to turn right from as near to the curb as practicable to help prevent passing on the right (which is why most bike lanes have dashed lines near intersections). Oregon is the one state that does NOT allow cars to merge into bike lanes near right turns. Oregon law basically wants cyclists to get right-hooked.

This is also why it's not really safe to be in a bike lane zooming past stopped traffic. If you do so, you have to be on high alert for potentially turning cars. Don't let the paint think for you.
PatrickGSR94 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-15-16 | 03:52 PM
  #34  
PatrickGSR94's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 7,391
Likes: 13
From: Memphis TN area

Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)

Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Personally I get as close to the intersection as possible. I'll wait behind the very first car but not directly behind. I'm always a little to the right. Even in fairly bike friendly Portland, if you are fifth person in line you are not going to make it through the intersection. The car behind you will be convinced that he could have made it if you weren't in his way. I've been screamed at, cussed out, horned, everything but hit, by drivers losing it as the signal times out. If I'm not in their way, its on them as to why they didn't make it through.
Why wait behind the 1st car? Why not wait in front of, and to the right of, the 1st car waiting to turn left? Either way you could swing wide and let other cars turn left as you head for the right side of the receiving road. Of course that assumes there's a place for you on the receiving road, either a separate travel lane or a bike lane.

It's not something I do, just curious.
PatrickGSR94 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-15-16 | 03:52 PM
  #35  
joeyduck's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,014
Likes: 0
From: Nanaimo, BC

Bikes: 1997 Kona Hahana Race Light, 2010 Surly LHT(deceased), 1999 Rocky Mountain Turbo

Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
That's the problem with many edge bike lanes, because they lead many cyclists to do exactly that. In 49 states, motorists are also required to turn right from as near to the curb as practicable to help prevent passing on the right (which is why most bike lanes have dashed lines near intersections). Oregon is the one state that does NOT allow cars to merge into bike lanes near right turns. Oregon law basically wants cyclists to get right-hooked.

This is also why it's not really safe to be in a bike lane zooming past stopped traffic. If you do so, you have to be on high alert for potentially turning cars. Don't let the paint think for you.
I agree and told him I always tried to hang to the left of the right most lane to help turners. I also said it's a bad way to be passing drivers and it would likely be the cyclists fault. Here sometimes it's hard to get to the right most edge when turning since there is always parked cars and then there is the natural gap getting along side them then trying to head into the right turn. Leaving an opening for cyclists to try to get by and using an Idaho stop while not being aware.
joeyduck is offline  
Reply
Old 02-15-16 | 03:56 PM
  #36  
PatrickGSR94's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 7,391
Likes: 13
From: Memphis TN area

Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)

Originally Posted by joeyduck
I agree and told him I always tried to hang to the left of the right most lane to help turners. I also said it's a bad way to be passing drivers and it would likely be the cyclists fault. Here sometimes it's hard to get to the right most edge when turning since there is always parked cars and then there is the natural gap getting along side them then trying to head into the right turn. Leaving an opening for cyclists to try to get by and using an Idaho stop while not being aware.
Yep, there are mindless ones among all of us, both cyclists and motorists. No matter what our choice of conveyance that day, we must always be aware of others around us. Sadly some aren't, which is when those tragedies happen.
PatrickGSR94 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-15-16 | 04:43 PM
  #37  
RubeRad's Avatar
Keepin it Wheel
10 Anniversary
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Active Streak: 30 Days
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,964
Likes: 5,224
From: San Diego

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus

Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
Why wait behind the 1st car? Why not wait in front of, and to the right of, the 1st car waiting to turn left? Either way you could swing wide and let other cars turn left as you head for the right side of the receiving road. Of course that assumes there's a place for you on the receiving road, either a separate travel lane or a bike lane.

It's not something I do, just curious.
That's exactly what I do. Front of the crosswalk, with the left-turning cars behind and left of me, and forward-going cars behind and right of me. Nobody can miss me (unless they're texting).
RubeRad is offline  
Reply
Old 02-15-16 | 05:18 PM
  #38  
JReade's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,597
Likes: 4
From: Oregon City, OR
Originally Posted by fietsbob
On The right side & Turning Left ? striped Bike lane on the street? You still can Be right Hooked
By Trucks as soon as the light turns If they dont look for YOU.

In My Small town I was given a PD warning to not ride the cross walk with the green light .

so I took up turning Right making a 180 'U-ey' then crossing with the green in the traffic lane ..

Heavy traffic? Octogenarian Geriatric Florida drivers? Use the Square Corner Left ... green light, wait for it.

stop on the far side of the street wait for the Green Light on that cross street , Then GO .
This is how I do it. 2-3 lanes to get to the turn lane, or make a right turn and u turn. I wouldn't be riding if I was in that much of a hurry.
JReade is offline  
Reply
Old 02-15-16 | 06:26 PM
  #39  
canklecat's Avatar
Me duelen las nalgas
10 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,519
Likes: 2,832
From: Texas

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Originally Posted by jfowler85
...you can't accelerate as fast as car can, which puts you in the middle of a traffic line with which you cannot keep pace.
I'm not fast or a strong sprinter but I routinely beat cars into the intersection from stops, and often have to brake behind the lead cars when I take the lane for left turns. Unless the driver is particularly aggressive and floors the accelerator I have no difficulty matching or beating them into and midway across a typical intersection.

But maintaining that speed is another thing. Usually by the time I've reached the other side of the intersection most drivers are passing me.

The point is, I don't find it unsafe to take the lane for a left turn, either from the front of the lane if I happened to get there first, or behind a lead car. As I noted before, in busy traffic and complex intersections I prefer to get behind the first or second car in the left turn lane and let them break the path. As I complete the turn safely the flow of traffic is beginning to pick up speed and I'll merge toward the right to minimize delaying cars behind me. But often I need to brake or pedal less aggressively, because the cars in front aren't going as fast as I'd prefer.
canklecat is offline  
Reply
Old 02-15-16 | 07:48 PM
  #40  
rmfnla's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,301
Likes: 14
From: La La Land (We love it!)

Bikes: Gilmour road, Curtlo road; both steel (of course)

Originally Posted by jfowler85
This is wrong. You need to be well aware of the entire intersection going in, ie before you get there, and conspicuously signal with your entire arm for everyone to see. I also filter to the front if I'm more than 2 cars back; when I get to the front I stick my lanky arm out to the left and repeat that again right before the light turns. Drivers will freak out if they don't know what you're doing, and the last thing you want is someone behaving erratically because they assume you are going to do something stupid.



2 problems here:

1) you can't accelerate as fast as car can, which puts you in the middle of a traffic line with which you cannot keep pace. This is dangerous and pisses people off, leading to like aggressive/punish passing by dumbasses on their way to Starbucks. That is, unless you live in Oregon...nicest drivers I've ever encountered were in around Bend and also Coos Bay.

2) cycling in traffic on the hope that stupid drivers will just "figure it out" is asking for trouble. You should ride proactively and defensively.
I think you misunderstand.

First, remember that we are turning left here. I am in front of everyone between the left turn and straight lanes; when the light changes I make the left alongside the car next to me that is also turning left. At no time am I in front of anyone.

Second, the OP mentioned cars that "freeze" because they don't 'get" what he is doing, even with a signal. My point is after they see my turn perhaps they will figure it out, but by that time I am long gone.

FWIW, I've been doing this for over 40 years, about 1500 commuter miles last year alone (in L.A.!) with no problems.

Safe, proactive and defensive, every time...
__________________
Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...

Last edited by rmfnla; 02-15-16 at 07:51 PM.
rmfnla is offline  
Reply
Old 02-15-16 | 08:35 PM
  #41  
Touring Enthusiast
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 278
Likes: 1
From: USA

Bikes: 23" Schwinn High Plains, 20" Trek 830 Antelope

Originally Posted by Slaninar
I usually wait behind one car. If I'm first, I make room for a car to pass me (while waiting, not when it's green). That way I don't slow anybody down. I stay behind the first car, in the right side of the left turning lane. That way I can go parallel with the car if they start too slow.
This.

Otherwise, if i am the only vehicle making a left-turn i use arm-signals to communicate my intent to the on-coming, left-turn driver(s)/traffic.
PolarBear007 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-15-16 | 09:26 PM
  #42  
grolby's Avatar
Senior Member
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,872
Likes: 152
From: BOSTON BABY
Originally Posted by alan s
Going to the front is following the same rules. They pass you, you pass them. No rule says passing a car or bike in the same lane as you is wrong. Why wait behind cars if they are stopped? Seems pointless.
This. Waiting in line is both pointless and more likely incur delays.

Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Applying that to bikes isnt unreasonable.
Sure it is. Motorcycles aren't bicycles and shouldn't be operated like bicycles.
grolby is offline  
Reply
Old 02-15-16 | 09:44 PM
  #43  
JoeyBike's Avatar
Member Not Found
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,490
Likes: 418
Originally Posted by aERonAUtical96
My question/thought... do you head to the front of the line? Do you tuck in behind the first or 2nd car? Do you just get in position wherever it happens to be? I'm thinking of stopping myself from moving to the front of the line if I'm turning. By sitting behind a car or two, I guess I get a little protection and if I take off I can sit on their bumper until I get through the turn.

Opinions?
Every intersection and every day is different. Sure, there are some patterns that repeat over time, but i take every instance individually instead of having some sort of plan. All I can say is that my DEFAULT is to get to the front by filtering. If the light turns green too soon I just merge into a gap formed by traffic starting to roll. Thankfully, cellphone use has made it ridiculously easy to catch a gap in traffic as almost everyone is looking at the device and late moving off a green light.

One final note: I am a fast rider and my acceleration from stopped is the same as a car in city traffic, and I can get up to 20+MPH in a couple of heartbeats. So I am not overly concerned about "blocking" any motorists behind me in a city grid (where I do the bulk of my commuting).

Originally Posted by grolby
This. Waiting in line is both pointless and more likely incur delays.
Most of the reasons why I commute on a bicycle are related to not waiting for anything I don't have to. So long as I don't cause anyone else to "react" to me, I am GOING!

Last edited by JoeyBike; 02-15-16 at 09:48 PM.
JoeyBike is offline  
Reply
Old 02-15-16 | 11:54 PM
  #44  
Senior Member
Sheldon Brown Memorial - Titanium
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,919
Likes: 1,260
Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
Why wait behind the 1st car? Why not wait in front of, and to the right of, the 1st car waiting to turn left? Either way you could swing wide and let other cars turn left as you head for the right side of the receiving road. Of course that assumes there's a place for you on the receiving road, either a separate travel lane or a bike lane.

It's not something I do, just curious.
The reason for stopping behind the first car is because s/he has usually already gone as far forward as is practical. Either right up to the cross-walk, or right up to the edge of the intersection. Being any more forward than that is a bad idea in either case. And, yes, I swing wide through my turn and half the time following cars pace me through but do not attempt to pass, and half the time they do pass when they see that my line gives them plenty of room to do so.
Leisesturm is offline  
Reply
Old 02-17-16 | 04:45 AM
  #45  
Bike Gremlin's Avatar
Mostly harmless ™
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,462
Likes: 243
From: Novi Sad

Bikes: Heavy, with friction shifters

Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
Why wait behind the 1st car? Why not wait in front of, and to the right of, the 1st car waiting to turn left? Either way you could swing wide and let other cars turn left as you head for the right side of the receiving road. Of course that assumes there's a place for you on the receiving road, either a separate travel lane or a bike lane.

It's not something I do, just curious.
It's safer, less likely to produce any rage in other drivers and you also don't slow anybody down. I usually start as fast as the car for the starting of the turn, then move to it's side. If I were first, driver behind me might hesitate to drive parallel to me turning, but when I move over to the side of the car in front, it is when I'm sure it's safe and the others can just follow the car in front of them. That's been my experience so far at least.

Always ride in traffic, although bicycles aren't allowed to use car roads where there are separate bicycle lanes. The reason I chose to ride and find it safer in car roads is for another topic, but I'm happy to say that riding the way I do - no riders honk me, can't remember the last time anyone did. So I guess it's not bothering anyone too much. Just stay visible, predictable and get out of the way when It's safer/smarter, while taking the lane when that is the smart option.
Bike Gremlin is offline  
Reply
Old 02-17-16 | 11:01 AM
  #46  
PatrickGSR94's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 7,391
Likes: 13
From: Memphis TN area

Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)

My main problem with filtering is that you invariably force motorists who have already passed you, to pass you again. That can absolutely trigger rage among some people. Unless of course it's backed up for miles and there's no chance of any car passing you again. But that's why I prefer to take my place in line most of the time. Cars arriving after me (behind me) have not passed me before, so there's none of that "dammit I just passed that guy!!" feelings.

Cyclists don't like slower cyclists to jump ahead of them at stop lights, causing delays for other cyclists who have to pass them again. It's not very courteous to do the same to motorists, either.
PatrickGSR94 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-17-16 | 11:24 AM
  #47  
hooCycles's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
From: Virginia, USA

Bikes: Jamis Sputnik

Heavily dependent on the circumstances. If there is no right turn lane and just a bike lane or shoulder I'll filter up to the front. If there is a right turn lane then I don't want to pull out into potential traffic just to cut back into the straight lane. If the road is a high-speed road and the cars will pass me immediately then I'll wait in line. If it's a dense urban intersection then I'll pull to the front since car/bike speed is not too different in my city. If the cars decided to pass me right before the light then I'll pass them since I want to mess with them. There are infinite scenarios, but it's interesting to hear how others do this. Good question.
hooCycles is offline  
Reply
Old 02-17-16 | 11:45 AM
  #48  
kickstart's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 5,331
Likes: 12
From: Kent Wa.

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
Cyclists don't like slower cyclists to jump ahead of them at stop lights, causing delays for other cyclists who have to pass them again. It's not very courteous to do the same to motorists, either.
I had a fool on a fixie do that to me. He filtered past me in the bike lane, bumped my front wheel while track standing poorly, jumped the light with the intersection still occupied, then shoaled me for several blocks when I caught up to him.
Some just don't have a clue how they effect others.
kickstart is offline  
Reply
Old 02-17-16 | 12:17 PM
  #49  
Junior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
I do like several others have mentioned - go to the right of the left turn lane just in front of the first car. In my experience if I'm there first (and on the right) the first car usually stops to the left and just behind me - I'm sure so they can keep an eye on me. I can turn left without slowing any of the cars down by keeping to the outside of the turn. And nobody has to get around me again as I ride on roads with shoulders.
ARenko is offline  
Reply
Old 02-17-16 | 12:28 PM
  #50  
alan s's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,977
Likes: 191
From: Washington, DC
Originally Posted by ARenko
I do like several others have mentioned - go to the right of the left turn lane just in front of the first car. In my experience if I'm there first (and on the right) the first car usually stops to the left and just behind me - I'm sure so they can keep an eye on me. I can turn left without slowing any of the cars down by keeping to the outside of the turn. And nobody has to get around me again as I ride on roads with shoulders.
This sounds about right, but apparently there are many who like sitting behind cars so they can breathe their exhaust and risk getting run over when the cars start moving. All so they don't offend anyone. God forbid you offend someone.
alan s is offline  
Reply


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.