When answering OPs question I was thinking of the two significant stoplighted left-turns on my commute; one on the way to work, one on the way home. Both are large intersections with two dedicated left-turn lanes, and their own dedicated portions of the light cycle. So when rolling up to a red light, left-turning and straight-going cars are all stopped (it's a red light), and I filter up and move to the front of the crosswalk, about 8-10ft in front of the cars.

I think in these two cases, this actually helps me. Rolling right into view and waiting in the crosswalk would be startling to a stopped driver waiting at a red light, and I cannot fail to be noticed. When the left-turn signal goes green, cars are always very tentative, I get off the line quicker than they do (and am ahead of them in the crosswalk anyways), and I am almost never passed during the turn. And the intersections are quite wide, and left-turning traffic normally tends to cut tighter rather than wider (even without cyclists there), so I make an exaggeratedly wide turn, aiming for the bike lane, and feel I am never in danger from oncoming left-turners.

That's a good point; in the case of my two intersections, there is no right turn or driveway for at least 1/4 mile. But I think that if I had rolled to the front of the crosswalk, the startled driver would not suddenly forget I was there.

Situations and particular intersections are all different. This morning I came to one of my stoplight left turns with timing such that the left-turn arrow went green as I was crossing to the left turn lane(s). I instantly recognized that, even though I maybe could have filtered with a burst of speed, the best course of action was to ride up behind the back stopped car and head into the intersection in turn.

This! And only this. Not only do you "risk falling behind", you absolutely will fall behind. At least two more cars could get through the arrow if you weren't in the way. Talk about rage? I'm not sure why any cyclist would want to put themselves in that kind of situation regularly. I have to assume that the people advocating a placement in the center of the left turn lanes do not live in high traffic areas where these lanes can have close to a dozen cars. And yes, cars, are supposed to turn into the left-most of multiple lanes in the receiving road but no one expect a bicycle to do that. But it really doesn't matter, no one else will be in the right hand lane yet, so a cyclist can do whatever makes sense for the situation at hand.

I don't have to tell you, but it appears that I have to point out to others, again, that a bicycle is NOT a vehicle. What drivers expect of other vehicles is IRRELEVANT. A car cannot split lanes, a motorcycle can, but probably should not, split lanes, but bicycles should always split lanes, unless they have their own dedicated bike lane. FRAP. Its the law everywhere, except in the minds of VC advocates that do not speak for the majority of sane and defensive cyclists. The only time I would be in the center of a left turn lane is if I was the first to arrive at the light. Also if it was a single lane for everything. I also might stay in the center, or even to the left of a lane behind the car in front. I would turn when s/he does using their vehicle to protect my right side. As soon as I get through the turn I would be dropping back and heading to my usual position of FRAP. That's really the way to do it.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. If I'm first to the light, I definitely take the lane and try to trigger the sensor, but watch for cars coming up behind me, if they do I walk my bike to my lane-split, front-of-crosswalk position, and hope the car is not too timid to come up over the sensor.

I am usually as often as not on a tandem in traffic, and tandems only move forward and backwards a few inches once stopped. There is none of the "going up on the sidewalk and punching the walk button" or "jockeying over the sensor loop" or in any way doing much of anything once stopped. Most of the sensors in Portland have a bike symbol to position yourself over. I aim for it coming in to a stop. I'm pretty good at getting the front wheel right over the marks. Out in the suburbs, if a car eventually comes up behind us, we pull forward as much as possible. I then point to the sensor loop, point at the driver, and coax the (often) reluctant cager to move forward over it. If they refuse, we wait till the straight through traffic gets their green and we then turn left on the red arrow.

FRAP/S is a different circumstance than lane splitting. Being in a congested high traffic area I always prefer to ride a bicycle as a bicycle using bike lanes, shoulders, and FRAP/S whenever it's a viable option. On the other hand when there's no options, and I must use the lane, I use it as a vehicle. All in, or all out. As pointed out, its not a matter of if, but when one will hold up others so splitting is basically doubling the number of lanes one is effecting.

As mentioned earlier, not being aware of how one effects others doesn't mean they're not.

There are any number of ways that filtering to the front of a left turning line of cars can go wrong. What happens if you are in the act of filtering and the light turns green? You could easily be in a position where the motorist won't...or can't or doesn't...notice you. Being in a location where a motorist doesn't expect another vehicle is never a good place to be. If the motorist is trying to beat the light or beat some on-coming traffic, the chances that they will hit you are much greater than if you control the flow of traffic around you.

And, while you might be able to start moving more quickly than a car, the advantage is very short lived. You could easily be half way through the intersection and a second car could be trying to pass you on the inside. If the second (or even third) motorist doesn't notice you, the results don't come out too well.

You are assuming that you have "startled" the motorist but I think that is assuming too much. Far too many motorists aren't that attentive. If you are directly in front of their hood ornament, they will probably notice you. Off to the side, they probably won't.

I've never found a situation where I proceed any differently than get into the left turn lane and take my share out of the middle.

You are assuming something that just isn't true. I live in a city and do most of my biking in a city. I always position myself in the middle of the left turn lane behind the last car in line. Frankly, I can't believe that anyone who rides in traffic would filter on a left turn. Would you filter on a left turn if the light for traffic going straight is green? I know I wouldn't because I'm not a fan of being between moving cars. Why do it when the light is red? There's no advantage.

Perhaps you should look up the regulations in your state. Bicycles are vehicles in a legal sense in all 50 state of the US. They are subject to the same rules and regulations as motor vehicles. A lot of people fought for a very long time to get bicycles that designation. If you look up your state's statues, language is probably similar to Colorado's

And what operators expect of other vehicles is extremely RELEVANT. Traffic works best and works safest if vehicle are operated in a predictable manner.

"As far right as practicable" only applies to moving in a straight line. Every US state vehicle statue that I've seen states is again similar to Colorado's statue for left turns

Since bicycles are vehicles, this applies to bicycles as well.

Something tells me that what you think FRAP means isn't really what it means.

First of all, it is NOT the law everywhere, as you say. Second, as far right as PRACTICABLE (as is safe) is not the same as far right as POSSIBLE. There is a huge, massive difference that has a direct effect on the safety of cyclists. I know that some municipalities have poorly worded statutes that say "possible", but most if not all states with such laws say "practicable" as it says in the MUTCD.

The state of Washington regulations say "far right as is safe".

That did happen once, and I posted about it. But for my regular lights, I am familiar enough with the cycle to be able to read from the lengths of the 8 different lines of cars (2-3 forward lanes and 2 left turn lanes in all four directions) whether the red will be long enough for me to filter up.

If I've missed the left-green for this cycle, and forward is still green, then I go straight (militantly watching for and avoiding right-hooks) to the far side of the intersection and wait in the bike lane for the green light in my direction. But the OP was about what do you do rolling up to a RED light.

I have turned left from this left turn lane before, on my heavy utility bike, with loaded trailer full of groceries attached. I was a few cars back in line, and yes there was a little gap that opened up in front of me as we went on the left turn arrow, but we all made the turn and no one behind me seemed to have any problems. I turned into the right lane on the perpendicular street, and the cars behind me turned into the left lane and passed me after the turn.

Not once did I even consider filtering ahead here. Wouldn't feel safe doing so, especially not with a trailer.

https://goo.gl/maps/TaFnPCYCyC22

which is basically what "practicable" means.

Yeah I would totally filter that; in the situation that the light is red, and all the cars are sitting waiting, I would weave between bigger gaps between stopped cars to get across then filter up the paint to stop with at least half my bike forward of the white line.

With a trailer though, I would not be confident that I could make tight turns between cars and would just play it safe, go forward to the far side of the intersection and wait for the cross-light.

There's far too much traffic, with far too much right-turn-on-red traffic, at that intersection to make a box turn safe. And in fact I would have to wait much longer as I would wait for the green light in the straight direction (after the left turn arrow that I would go on if in the left turn lane), then go to the other side and wait for the green light in the cross direction.

I do recall weaving through stopped traffic to get to the left turn lane (I was coming out of a side street to the right of the linked street view) one time when I did not have the trailer. But I still took my place in line in the left turn lane.

Head up to the intersection in the street view. You'll see it's typical BS suburban car-centric planning. No sidewalks, no cross walks, no crossing signals. Ironically there is some "to cross push button" signs on the corner poles with wires hanging out of the holes. The left turn lane is definitely the safest option here, if you can't avoid this intersection altogether (I usually do).

That street view above is also a situation where a left-turning motorist might try to make an immediate right turn into the BP gas station from Airways Blvd.

Ah, yes, I re-read and it appears I conflated your post with another. So, in essence it turns out that I agree with you. I'll try to pay attention next time.

Agreed, it's just more obvious, and less likely to be misinterpreted.

Of course some can still willfully misinterpret it, or anything else if it suits them.

Lots of assumptions here - out of all of my commuting throughout the US - mostly west of the Mississippi, I have not found any of these adages to be true except in one single case. Perhaps your roads/drivers are different (having cycled around Denver many times I find that not to be the case but I would give you the benefit of that doubt nonetheless) then what I have experienced, but mostly I find that cars will simply drive around you. In the case that the cyclist squeezes himself between free flowing traffic and a stopped turning lane, that can be potentially dangerous but I've done it countless times and others have to, with no issues (the key therein is to filter up to the corner of the first car instead of waiting beside it...does anyone even really do that?).

Getting right-hooked is always a possibility when either you are riding in the driver's blind spot or the driver is oblivious. This is obvious and incorporating a left turn into the scenario doesn't make it any worse.

As far as your latter statement, that is absolutely false. You have no control over the cars behind you. If you are going too slow and an opening presents itself to an inclined driver, he/she will pass you. No cyclist has any control over any vehicle on the road, that's just silly to assume you would, and is a great way to get yourself hurt. Waiting in a line of moving traffic is a great way to get rear-ended, if anything.

Perhaps you should check the accident statistics. Getting rear ended is the least common mode of accident between a car and a bicycle. People don't just run over cyclists that are in front of them. I've never had someone try to pass me during a left turn when I'm in the middle of the left turn lane. There isn't enough room for them to pass me and, again, motorist don't run over cyclists for no reason.

I'm also not "waiting in a line of moving traffic". The line of traffic either isn't moving...i.e. it's waiting for the light...or it is moving at the same speed as I am after the light turns green.

"Control" may not be the best term, but "influence" certainly works. You ABSOLUTELY influence traffic behind you based on your riding behavior, lane position, hand signals, and probably other factors. There was a study conducted recently of how lane position affects motorist passing distance. The farther left the cyclist gets (farther from the edge), the more likely the motorist is to change lanes to pass. Interestingly, starting from the curb or edge, if one moves just a few feet left (right tire track), passing distances actually get CLOSER. But then as the cyclist moves farther left still towards the left tire track, nearly 100% of motorists change lanes to pass. This directly reflects my experiences in the past 3 years of riding and commuting by bike.

So yes, you definitely can influence motorists behind you. To think you cannot influence others is just silly. The very act of being there influences others. Pretending that other people can't see you is actually a great way to get hurt. The best way to stay safe is to do everything in your power to MAKE SURE other people can SEE you.

Statistically speaking, I think that is better explained by the VERY small number of cyclists that take the lane.

Just a minor quibble: "Control" is exactly the term to use. People can try to sneak around me on a left turn or even when going straight but if I'm positioned in the middle of the lane, they can only "try".

Exactly. The problem here is one of perception (with a modicum of fear). Motorists aren't out there to just run down cyclists willy nilly. You've only been commuting for 3 years, I've been commuting for 10 times that. I've had lots of time to observe how motorists act and while we bicyclists may anger some drivers from time to time, seldom do we anger them to the point of murderous intent. I've never had someone in a car try to actively run me over while making a left turn and I make thousands of them per year. Even on multi-lane left turns to multi-lane roadways, people don't actively try to run me over.

I say influence because I sometimes have people ignore my signals to hang back because a car is coming the other way or that I'm about to make a left turn. This always happens on 2-lane roads. I'm far left in the lane, looking back, sticking my left arm out, but they pass anyway like impatient a-holes. But that's pretty rare compared to how most people behave.

That makes no sense at all. You don't have to take the lane to be hit from behind. If anything, not taking the lane results in more people trying to pass you with less room and a higher chance of being hit from behind. Try riding up against the curb vs a bit further out in the lane sometime and see how often cars will try to squeeze past you when they can't.

The most common car/bicycle accident mode, by the way, is a car turning left turning across a bicyclist's path.

Where I commute all intersections are sensor controlled. The Left turn sensors never detects my bicycle when I'm moving.

What this means if if I stop at the end behind more than about 5 cars the gap between me and the car in front is too big and the left turn light changes before I can enter the intersection. (For most of my lefts, the signal is very very unforgiving and short.) So I filter to the front if more than 4 or 5 cars are present, if fewer I'll wait in line.

I wondered if you would ever admit, in print, that drivers don't always "listen" and respect your right of way. Now compound that. Add in something like race to the mix. Now you may understand why racial minorities and/or women might choose less confrontational styles of riding than pure VC.

Tandems, women, older riders... when the light (arrow) turns green, the car ahead is going to pull away like the cyclists are standing still. The light (arrow) will time out long before the bike gets to the intersection if more than 3 or more cars back. Cars behind will be livid. Again as I said to Patrick... throw gender, race or age into that charged dynamic of impatient cager who missed the turn because they were too decent to just run you over. You have to sit through the complete light cycle with their horn blowing or their yelling out their window that you should be on the sidewalk or whatever gets in their head to say to you that is against TOS for me to repeat here. YMMV, but I pick my battles. I filter as close to the light as possible to maximize the chance that I will get through the arrow on the first cycle, and I take a line through the turn that allows cars to pass if they need to. If they don't, great, but they can't say I didn't give them the option.

No one is being confrontational. I just posted a video over the weekend of 5 cases of people doing stupid things (4 of those being stupid passing) over the past couple of weeks. NOT ONE ever honked, yelled, or came close to me in any way, shape or form. They put themselves and other motorists in danger, while ignoring me trying to help keep them safe. Find it in the "what does your commute look like" thread.

Apparently you don't understand traffic dynamics. Unless the intersection is very large and spread out, people aren't going fast through a left turn when there's other traffic in front of them. Most people take it fairly slow (unless they're trying to make a stale green arrow with no one in front of them). When a line of traffic starts moving, there is delay farther back in line because people always allow a gap to open up in front of them before they start moving. What you say COULD happen, depending on how far back in line you are, and how short the arrow is. Most turn arrows last longer than 3 cars, except that one by my office that lasts EXACTLY 3 cars long. Some arrows last 10 or even 20 cars. It all depends on how the signal is timed and adjusted, which SHOULD be done based on traffic volumes along with sensor inputs.

As I've mentioned before, I took to the sidewalk once in Florida because of past experiences with an extremely long left turn queue, for exactly the reason you stated. But then in other places I've been 5-6 cars back with a trailer full of groceries attached, and I still made it through the left turn fine, as did traffic behind me. A little more of a gap opened up between me and the car in front, but no one was "livid" as you said. No one honked or revved or did any of those things.

I think much of the animosity you feel like exists from motorists towards cyclists, just simply isn't real.

Light detection systems are a different matter. Although I do have problems with a few that won't detect me, it is a rare event that I can't trip a light. It's all about position and locating the best place to be detected. Here's good primer on how to get systems to detect you. I use these techniques all the time and I've used them all over the US with good effect.

Where to start? First off, let's address the "women, older riders, minorities" statement. How condescending can you be? I know plenty women and older riders (I could easily be classified in that category) and minorities who are fully capable of accelerating from a dead stop to the speed of the cars moving in a left hand turn from 3, 4 or even 5 carlengths back from the light. I often find myself having to brake for the cars making a left turn as they are slowly proceeding through the turn. People don't drag race off the line on left turns.

Additionally, I've made literally thousands of left turns from the left lane while positioned behind the last car in the line when I arrived over 35+ years of commuting and I've never had anyone who sat with "their horn blowing or their yelling out their window that you should be on the sidewalk". I've ridden in 47 of the 50 states. I made left turns from the left lane while queued up behind cars even in large cities...Denver, Washington DC, Seattle, LA area, Nashville, Louisville, Cincinnati, Detroit, etc...and never had a problem. Most of my visits to those cities and states have involved riding a bike with up to 50 lbs of touring gear as well. Still never had a problem.

Exactly my experience. I've never had anyone honk at me or even be upset about me being in front of them on a left turn. I get plenty of honks and shouts in other situations but my capacity to ignore them is quite high.

I've never been hit, therefore I must be doing everything right.

There is one light on my commute that often has little traffic going my way (straight) in both morning and evenings. I can tell you for sure that the light WILL NOT give me a green unless a car comes along in my lane. I waited through 3 cycles once. So because of that I often have to hoof it across when the left turn arrow comes on, before the oncoming left turning traffic makes it across my path.

Same here. I've had 3 close calls in 3 years, and only one of those was REALLY close. The other two weren't that big of a deal. Never been hit. Fell down from being clipped in a few times but that's about it. :D