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Why 50-34 sucks for commuting

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Old 04-28-16 | 02:46 PM
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Interesting article on the reasons why 52/36 may become the new standard:

Is it the end for the 34t chainring? - Cycling Weekly
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Old 04-28-16 | 02:46 PM
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Not sure why I have never cared or noticed much about gearings. 10000s of commuting miles in the last few years on multiple bikes and could not tell you what any of the gearings are other than a double or triple crank mated to 5,6,7 speed freewheels. Need to climb? Downshift, need to pick up the pace, upshift. Only real thing I aim for is keep chainline as straight as possible
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Old 04-28-16 | 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
Skipping between the big and granny rings of a triple would be an unbelievably stupid way to use it unless your riding consisted entirely of 15%+ undulations. That would be a pretty ideal scenario for a 50/34 compact, really.
Actually, you just described the vast majority of my riding. It's either flat or 6% extended hill-climbs. And yes, the middle ring was utterly useless.
On my mountain bike, I converted it to a double by removing the big ring. The shifting improved dramatically and 42x11 is too tall a gear for rough trail riding (at least at the non-pro level).
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Old 04-28-16 | 05:35 PM
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I think such an absolute statement (as in this posting title) is not very helpful.

Not all commutes are created equal. Distance, weather and terrain are important characteristics of any commute, and these characteristics vary widely.

I commute on a 50-34 and I think it is just fine.
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Old 04-28-16 | 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by McBTC
Interesting article on the reasons why 52/36 may become the new standard:

Is it the end for the 34t chainring? - Cycling Weekly
If nothing else it will put everyone in the group rides half a shift off until they all buy new bikes
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Old 04-28-16 | 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Hub Spanner
I commute on a 50-34 and I think it is just fine.
No, you're wrong. It sucks. I checked.

Just kidding, obviously I over-generalized but I was feeling grumpy.
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Old 04-28-16 | 06:23 PM
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I think it just depends on terrain like hub spinner said. I have always had a mountain bike triple so the bike i have now, 50 34t compact is a first. It took me a while to get used to the jump between 34 and 50, it certainly is large. But i studied the gear ratios (stock cassette is a 12-30, but I'd prefer something like 12-27 or 28) and i shift small ring, and gears 30-15 then I have met a gear that my 50 ring matches. So i upshift to the 50 and down shift back a few gears and I am right at a similar gear ratio and moving up the 50.

I think it goes without saying that my 2x10 obviously doesn't cover the gaps like a 3x10 or 3x11 would, but the 2x10 is sufficient for my needs. The biggest concern I have is trying to avoid adverse chain angles. I am contemplating switching down to a 44 or 46 large ring but I just love getting in my powerful gears going down hill.
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Old 04-28-16 | 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by McBTC
Interesting article on the reasons why 52/36 may become the new standard:

Is it the end for the 34t chainring? - Cycling Weekly
Wow! Totally blindsided me. Didn't realize what I was missing. Next thing someone is going to claim 52-36 sucks for commuting.
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Old 04-28-16 | 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by alan s
Originally Posted by McBTC
Interesting article on the reasons why 52/36 may become the new standard:

Is it the end for the 34t chainring? - Cycling Weekly
Wow! Totally blindsided me. Didn't realize what I was missing. Next thing someone is going to claim 52-36 sucks for commuting.
The ironic (?) part is that 52/36 cranks have existed before -- on some 60s/70s "10-speeds", and wasn't it actually a 52/36 set that Tyler Hamilton rode in the 2003 TdF after breaking his collarbone, ushering in the wave of popularity for the compact crank? But now they're new again, and just what we all need.
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Old 04-28-16 | 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by alan s
Wow! Totally blindsided me. Didn't realize what I was missing. Next thing someone is going to claim 52-36 sucks for commuting.
I hope you also clicked through to read the "Are Electronic Groupsets Necessary?" article. You won't be able to get to work without one soon...especially, it would seem, if you have cobbles on your route.
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Old 04-28-16 | 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by McBTC
Interesting article on the reasons why 52/36 may become the new standard:

Is it the end for the 34t chainring? - Cycling Weekly
This quote from the article belongs in this thread: "With a 28 gear on the rear, the distance you cover with one turn of the cranks is 2.75m; with a 34t chainring, you’d need to be in 34-27 to travel the same distance."
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Old 04-28-16 | 10:14 PM
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I don't know if you guys realized this, but it is possible to turn the pedals at different cadences.
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Old 04-28-16 | 10:22 PM
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Depends on many factors, as others have pointed out. It also depends on wheelsize. Most all of you have a 26" and larger wheel tunnel vision. 50/36T on a 20" (451) wheel is just dandy.
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Old 04-28-16 | 10:37 PM
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110/74 five arm cranks have been around a long time and I bet they'll still be around a long time, even while the fads of each year come and go
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Old 04-28-16 | 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
This quote from the article belongs in this thread: "With a 28 gear on the rear, the distance you cover with one turn of the cranks is 2.75m; with a 34t chainring, you’d need to be in 34-27 to travel the same distance."
It's approximately true!
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Old 04-29-16 | 05:23 AM
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You're both lost. I'm comparing the gear spread with a 1X vs a 2X. The 1X requires a higher high and lower low to match the range of a 2X. Therefore, the gaps between gears are larger. Common sense.

Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
No, he's right. These are MTB parts and the shift ratios on MTB's have always been about +-15%. With an 8-speed triple you get two more top ratios with the outer ring, and 3 more bottom ratios with the inner ring. With the 1x system you get the same middle ring ratios you always did, get the 3 granny gears via more cogs on the rear instead of the inner front, and lose the top two. Here's 11x11-40 with a 32 ring, compared to the 8x3 system that came with my Hardrock. The bolded sections are identical, the bottom is similar though not the same.

I don't actually shift it this way, I use the outer ring for the upper three or four and the inner ring for the lower four or five, because the chain rubs. But the ratios would come out similar enough because the cassette ratio spacing is pretty even.

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 579"]
[TR]
[TD]3x8 old Acera[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1x11 XT[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ring[/TD]
[TD]cog[/TD]
[TD]overall ratio[/TD]
[TD]shift ratio[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]ring[/TD]
[TD]cog[/TD]
[TD]overall ratio[/TD]
[TD]shift ratio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]42[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]3.82[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]42[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]3.23[/TD]
[TD]1.18[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]32
[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]2.91[/TD]
[TD]1.11[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]2.91[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]32
[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]2.46[/TD]
[TD]1.18[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]2.46[/TD]
[TD]1.18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]32
[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]2.13[/TD]
[TD]1.15[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]2.13[/TD]
[TD]1.15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]32
[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]1.88[/TD]
[TD]1.13[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]1.88[/TD]
[TD]1.13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]32
[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]1.68[/TD]
[TD]1.12[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]1.68[/TD]
[TD]1.12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]32
[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]1.52[/TD]
[TD]1.11[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]1.52[/TD]
[TD]1.11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]32
[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]1.33[/TD]
[TD]1.14[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]1.33[/TD]
[TD]1.14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]32
[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]1.14[/TD]
[TD]1.17[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]1.14[/TD]
[TD]1.17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]1.05[/TD]
[TD]1.09[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]1.00[/TD]
[TD]1.14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]0.92[/TD]
[TD]1.14[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]36[/TD]
[TD]0.89[/TD]
[TD]1.13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]0.79[/TD]
[TD]1.17[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]0.80[/TD]
[TD]1.11[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

And for a more modern take with slightly lower gears for 29ers, here's 11-42 compared to the current Acera 3x9 system

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 579"]
[TR]
[TD]3x9 Acera[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1x11 XT[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ring[/TD]
[TD]cog[/TD]
[TD]overall ratio[/TD]
[TD]shift ratio[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]ring[/TD]
[TD]cog[/TD]
[TD]overall ratio[/TD]
[TD]shift ratio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]3.64[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]3.08[/TD]
[TD]1.18[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]30
[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]2.73[/TD]
[TD]1.13[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]2.73[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]2.31[/TD]
[TD]1.18[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]2.31[/TD]
[TD]1.18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]2.00[/TD]
[TD]1.15[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]2.00[/TD]
[TD]1.15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]1.76[/TD]
[TD]1.13[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]1.76[/TD]
[TD]1.13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]1.58[/TD]
[TD]1.12[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]1.58[/TD]
[TD]1.12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]1.43[/TD]
[TD]1.11[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]1.43[/TD]
[TD]1.11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]1.25[/TD]
[TD]1.14[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]1.25[/TD]
[TD]1.14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]1.07[/TD]
[TD]1.17[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]1.07[/TD]
[TD]1.17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]0.94[/TD]
[TD]1.14[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]0.94[/TD]
[TD]1.14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]0.79[/TD]
[TD]1.19[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]0.81[/TD]
[TD]1.16[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]0.69[/TD]
[TD]1.14[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]42[/TD]
[TD]0.71[/TD]
[TD]1.14[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
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Old 04-29-16 | 05:29 AM
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A couple of annoying oddities about 50/34...

...the 34 is simply too small of a ring to do any spinning for any period of time on flats/slight descents.

...the 50 ring is surprisingly noisy. It doesn't make a huge racket, but it's noticeably noisier than the 34. I wouldn't mind if I were in the 50 only occasionally, such as for long descents, but there aren't any long descents where I ride.


50/34 is just wrong.

I can't believe 50/34 has been standard for as long as it has. I say either go with 10 or 11 speed 50/39/30 to get smaller jumps between rings and to get a wide gear range, or go with a 1X 12 speed or better yet, 13 speed. I would find a 40 or 42 paired with a 10 - 40 or 42 might be nice.
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Old 04-29-16 | 09:01 AM
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If change is necessary the new reality probably won't totally suck if we lose the 11 cog and a few thousand pages could easily be written about it like, just last month I spun out doing 32.1 mph spinning a 50x11 at 90 RPM... what am I 'gonna do now, drop down to 29.4 MPH with my puny 12t cog? Increase my cadence to 100? Oh wait... if I increase my cadence to 99 I can still do 30 mph in 13t so, never mind.
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Old 04-29-16 | 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by McBTC
If change is necessary the new reality probably won't totally suck if we lose the 11 cog and a few thousand pages could easily be written about it like, just last month I spun out doing 32.1 mph spinning a 50x11 at 90 RPM... what am I 'gonna do now, drop down to 29.4 MPH with my puny 12t cog? Increase my cadence to 100? Oh wait... if I increase my cadence to 99 I can still do 30 mph in 13t so, never mind.
SRAM has done just that with the new 10-50 cassette, so obviously some higher up thinks it won't totally suck.
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Old 04-29-16 | 10:20 AM
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...doable: a 1x12 with the biggest available 38t chainring up front is 100.5 gear inches in the 10t cog and 30 mph if you can muster up 101 RPMs (I think could possibly do that with 145 mm cranks).
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Old 04-29-16 | 11:32 AM
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10-50 cassette? Sheesh, the thing must be half the size of the wheel. It is like its own dork disk.
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Old 04-29-16 | 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbenaugust
10-50 cassette? Sheesh, the thing must be half the size of the wheel. It is like its own dork disk.
One wonders if cassette cogs will eventually grow big enough to approach the rim. Cyclists have no pride anymore.
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Old 04-29-16 | 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbenaugust
10-50 cassette? Sheesh, the thing must be half the size of the wheel. It is like its own dork disk.
If you have an aero rim you can't shift into the spokes
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Old 04-29-16 | 11:42 AM
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Dammit Scott! You poached my joke!
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Genesis 49:16-17
"Well, well!" said Holmes, impatiently. "A good cyclist does not need a high road. The moor is intersected with paths and the moon is at the full."
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Old 04-29-16 | 11:44 AM
  #175  
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ThermionicScott
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From: CID

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

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