It rained this morning. As usual I took my North Face ripstop nylon shell and put it over my puff jacket (it was barely above freezing). However, when I took the shell off, I noticed my puff jacket was wet. Now, I highly doubt that water came in through the neck hole of my shell and got the outside of my puff jacket wet (especially along the arms) so the only conclusion I can make is that my shell is no longer waterproof.

As far as I know, ripstop nylon doesn't require any tech spray to keep it waterproof.

So my question is this. Are there any thin, lightweight shells what are ACTUALLY waterproof, forever? (My pants/trousers faired better, but they're also quite a bit thicker (and heavier.))

you know the other perspective here is that the the jacket, albeit still probably waterproof, just isn't as breathable as it used to be and the moisture you see is sweat from your body.

some puffy shells are good at breathing and some rain jackets, while claim to be breathable, aren't very. i used to get this sometimes but i got a rain jacket with pit zips. problem solved.

Truly waterproof jackets can make you very wet from condensation. Sometimes they'll make you wetter than if you had no jacket. In the rain, there is no way to stay dry. Don't try. Figure out what makes you comfortable or at least reduces your discomfort. I find that wooly clothing is best for me. That means wool and wicking synthetics. They stay somewhat warm even when wet. When the weather is warm, I wear as little as possible, because it's better not to have a sponge pulling on my moving body parts.

Like [MENTION=152773]noglider[/MENTION] said above, I have yet to see a breathable waterproof jacket. I'm currently using a Novara Stratos bike jacket that I got at a local REI. The main benefit is that this and other non breathable jackets can act like two layers. So if its 40F-59F and up, then you will porbably only need this jacket and one baselayer. The drawback is that it can be a little too hot for 60F and up.

Man if I wore that heavy of a jacket just above freezing it would be drenched with sweat. I assume you'd know if that was the case though.

Staying dry is a losing battle, don't beleive deodorant marketing.

My best setup so far: Gore Tex Arc't'ryx jacket. It keeps light rain off but gets sweat *out*. When its pouring the rain goes through the jacket; it gets soaked. *BUT* that's the weird thing; there is a kind of equilibrium that happens and you do not get that wet afterall. And at bike speeds it ends-up drying crazy fast, so if the rain stops the jacket dries in no time and continues to pull the sweat out. Its awesome.

You cannot stay dry but you can manage it

Waterproof? Try some showers pass stuff. Great venting and details. As said, tough to overcome the sweat. Some riders like ponchos.

Novara, cycling specific, rain jacket. I believe it has a back vent & pit zips. layering is key. might be chilly outside but with a shell like this you may only need 1 layer underneath

Nothing truly waterproof will ever breath very well. The best breathing 3-layer waterproof membranes right now are Polartec NeoShell, eVent, Gore-tex Pro or Active, or Dermizax NX . Look for a shell made of one of those three if you want best-in-class true waterproofness and limited breathability. Pit zips will help breath. This is fine for low-intensity activites but if you're cycling very hard or very long you will build up a bunch of sweat from the inside. Right now, thats just a fact of where the fabric science is.

My preferred of those is Derminzax (very hard to find) and eVent. The breathe a bit better than the others in my experience.

Other options would be a hybrid or softshell material -- better breathability with a good DWR treatment.

Or the cheapest option would be re-treating your current jacket with DWR to see if it can be restored. This won't keep you dry in a downpour, but it would be okay in less intense weather events.

Riding in a puffy would make me sweat instantly. And most puffy's *suck* at breathing (because they are made to be relatively wind resistant.) Something like a Patagonia Nano Air or a thick fleece is the typically preferred insulator for higher intensity activities because they breathe far better.

It sounds like the DWR on you Dead Bird jacket is worn out. A refresher is probably in order. The getting soaked is known as "wetting out" -- which means the fabric is saturated. However, unless the fabric is compromised it will never let water droplets through to the inside. (The basic principal of waterproof breathable is that they are woven loosely enough to let water vapor out, but not liquid water in.) What a "wetted out" fabric will do is clog the fabric such that most all its breathability is lost resulting in additional condensation on the inside. Effectively it is the same because you're getting wet. Except condensation that is caused by sweat smells far worse.

[MENTION=88419]DunderXIII[/MENTION], I also have an Arc'teryx jacket, and that's what I'm talking about. It gets wet but it's surprisingly tolerable. The price was stunningly high but someone here told me I'd love it. And I've had it for two winters now, and it is the only jacket I've worn in cold temperatures. It weighs nearly nothing.

Light and water proof bike jacket ?? the plastic see your team jersey sponsor's logos through it kind, probably Qualify..




My Water Proof Solution is the Cycle Rain Cape over my Jacket, unless its 'not raining much'..

I got a Grundens made cape that Grant at RBW had them make.. Grundens makes Off Shore Foul Weather Gear

for the commercial fishing industry. It is non breathable.. a seam welded Nylon backed PVC.


The WPB stuff is dependant on a DWR treatment, so water beads up, Its the opposite of the wetting agent in detergents..

DWR is only good for a year or 2 then you have to re treat it.



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You'll get somewhat wet no matter what. Best bet is with a breathable waterproof with vents. You have to use vents or you will trap sweat or get condensation that gets trapped.

There is no such thing as 100% waterproof and 100% breathable at the same time. You will either get wet from rain or get wet from your own sweat.

Unless you get one with vents and use them.

In an affordable rainproof (not merely rain-resistant, but rainproof) cycling jacket, I'm very satisfied with the Shimano Storm Jacket I got in 2015. Kept me warm and dry through some chilly downpours. They're discontinued but still occasionally available as new/old stock for $50 or less from a few discounters. Shimano made a few variations of the same basic jacket, all for serious rain rides. Laminated shell, mesh liner, excellent attention to detail overall, well worthwhile if you can find one.

Downsides: It doesn't breathe and the ventilation could be better for warmer weather (above 60F). It just has a cape vent and needs to be unzipped for flow-through ventilation. I'm thinking of having a tailor add some metal mesh grommets in the arm pits. That would handle most of the heat/sweat buildup. And it's relatively bulky - it might fit a ziplock gallon bag with some effort, especially if you skip the detachable hood.

The Pearl Izumi Select Barrier windbreaker has been rain resistant (I haven't had a chance yet to try it in a real downpour) through light and misting rain, very wind resistant and remarkably comfortable from the 20s with appropriate layering to the 70s with a single thin jersey underneath. The least expensive PI jacket I got has no cape vent, armpit vents or detachable sleeves (the higher priced PI jackets do). But ventilation has been adequate through the rear waist pocket by unsticking the Velcro fastener and unzipping the front at the collar. And the fabric may be the thinnest possible fabric that's still practical. It'll roll up into its own rear pocket, and squish into a quart size ziplock baggy with plenty of room to spare, or stuff into a jersey pocket or my handlebar pouch or saddle bag. No hood, just elastic wristbands.

High end Gore-Tex is out for me. I already have a rain-resistant winter parka with Gore-Tex shell and Thinsulate insulation. Very expensive but it's served me well for almost 30 years, including some bike rides this winter in temps down into the 20s.

I've got a nice Showers Pass waterproof shell. It's no lightweight, though. Full-length pit zips, back vent, adjustable wrist straps. Works okay up to about 75ºF or so, presuming a proper (wicking) base layer. Have worn it well into the 20's. Have been snowed, sleeted and rained on. It's pretty darned good. Just not a featherweight shell. Though I've only had it a couple years now, it wouldn't surprise me if it remains waterproof for many, many years.

Can't say whether their lighter-weight stuff would be equally waterproof. Worth looking at.

That jacket looks familiar. Good on you for getting out in the light snow. BTW, is that a large shower cap on your helmet? I have to try that one of these days...

LOL yup. read about using them right here on BF many years ago. whenever I stay at a hotel, I take home the shower cap. they last a long time. easy to stuff in a pocket. easy to whip off if the rain stops or you need venting. because they are clear any reflective bits on the helmet still shine through. they also offer some protection from the wind, but if it's cold they don't substitute for a thin thermal layer. sadly, motels are offering these less often. I guess you can buy them somewhere

I agree, a cape is nice for waterproofness from above, and ventilation from below. I have a cheap Ikea rain cape ($6), I need to figure out how to hack some thumb loops, meanwhile I just hold the front of the cape in my grip on the bars, and sit on the tail so my butt is covered too.

If I lived in Portland like fietsbob I would invest in that Grundens cape.

I kinda think you are overdressing. Yeah, I know that it's cold, but you will warm up as you ride. My "barely above freezing" apparel is a long sleeve tech Tee, thin wool sweater, topped by my hi viz nylon shell. If the rain is light, I am fine. If heavy, I may substitute a real rain jacket that is supposed to breath (questionable) or, more likely, I will check Doppler radar for a window of relief.

I believe that there is a big difference that depends upon what you are doing. If you are commuting, using a good jacket and pants (like Showers Pass), you can stay pretty darn dry, except a little sweat. If you are training, might as well not wear rain gear, you will be soaked either way. I use a North Face poly filled jacket for MTBing, I think that rain feels better than sweat inside a rain jacket.

Bicycle Cape can be Water Proof, because like an Umbrella there is ventilation under it..

Then it would be urethane coated to be water proof
(mill costings peel off in time, an impregnated silicone-nylon will last longer)


They , capes/ponchos could be made of light weight material, they are for hiking,
but at much wind speed they start flag-like flapping..


JRA in Oregon Coastal rain Squalls I'm fine..





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Troll thread

I doesn't appear that way to me. Plus, a good discussion is going.