Batteries in the cold
12-15-17, 12:08 PM
#26
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Tell that to my Iphone. Had a soccer game last night. Left the office at 100% charge, and after riding to the field still had something in the 90's (It was in my pocket, under a couple of layers). During the game it was basically sitting out, and I think it was probably around 30F (-1 or -1C), for the hour long game. When I went to check it afterward, it showed a whopping 1%.
Got home and plugged it in, and it began charging from 93%, sooo... maybe it's just reading 1%, because of the cold, but it could maintain that 1% for a long, long time?
Got home and plugged it in, and it began charging from 93%, sooo... maybe it's just reading 1%, because of the cold, but it could maintain that 1% for a long, long time?
12-15-17, 12:20 PM
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I know this is an electronic/lighting question and there's a forum for that there's more traffic here so I'll ask it here.
The last couple of mornings it's been like -14, -17*C. The battery life on my rechargeable lights--all of them, as well as my camera, have been shortened considerably. The funny thing is once I got into work and they've had time to warm up they continued to work, and even the low-charge warning signals stopped flashing. The camera--same thing.
So what gives? Is this normal and is just accepted? What can be done to mitigate, if anything?
The last couple of mornings it's been like -14, -17*C. The battery life on my rechargeable lights--all of them, as well as my camera, have been shortened considerably. The funny thing is once I got into work and they've had time to warm up they continued to work, and even the low-charge warning signals stopped flashing. The camera--same thing.
So what gives? Is this normal and is just accepted? What can be done to mitigate, if anything?
I don't do that often
12-15-17, 12:30 PM
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on account of reading this forum last night and after commuting and confirming it this morning, i brought my headlight inside from being attached to my bike.
it was a fully charged Taz 1200 that was outdoors overnight and not in use.
this morning after reading this, i knew there was potential for diminished performance but after trying to turn the light on, i immediately got the red blinking light indicating a very low remaining charge.
now that the light is inside, i turned it (without having charged it at all) back to a green, full charge light when on high.
i dont know much about charging the batteries while they're cold and whatnot but i guess i'll be bringing this light inside for my winter commute...
it was a fully charged Taz 1200 that was outdoors overnight and not in use.
this morning after reading this, i knew there was potential for diminished performance but after trying to turn the light on, i immediately got the red blinking light indicating a very low remaining charge.
now that the light is inside, i turned it (without having charged it at all) back to a green, full charge light when on high.
i dont know much about charging the batteries while they're cold and whatnot but i guess i'll be bringing this light inside for my winter commute...
12-15-17, 12:33 PM
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was reading safety warnings for a car battery charger I got yesterday. one of the warnings was never charge a frozen battery. they didn't say why but there's probably a good reason. was gonna take it out of my kids car, bring it inside to charge it overnite. but the warnings about gas clouds & explosions, etc had me doubting the idea. eventually my mechanic said he'd go check it out & it was probably the starter anyway
12-15-17, 02:19 PM
#30
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You may not need to charge it, just bringing it into the office will warm it up so it'll have more power available when you start home.
In the normal course of things, I replaced several of my extra blinkies this year. It's getting harder to find decent lights that at least pretend to be weather resistant, so I've got at least one rechargeable blinkie on each commuting bike. I've already found it more of a hassle to take each one off the bike, bring it in, and recharge it weekly, as opposed to tossing a couple new alkalines in every 4-6 weeks. Not looking forward to finding out what really cold weather is going to do to the rechargeables.
Of course, my primary dyno lights just keep going, and going, and going...
In the normal course of things, I replaced several of my extra blinkies this year. It's getting harder to find decent lights that at least pretend to be weather resistant, so I've got at least one rechargeable blinkie on each commuting bike. I've already found it more of a hassle to take each one off the bike, bring it in, and recharge it weekly, as opposed to tossing a couple new alkalines in every 4-6 weeks. Not looking forward to finding out what really cold weather is going to do to the rechargeables.
Of course, my primary dyno lights just keep going, and going, and going...
12-15-17, 03:53 PM
#31
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I believe all batteries perform worse in the cold but NiMH suffer more than LiIon batteries do.
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12-15-17, 09:19 PM
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I really like the Light and Motion Vis 360 helmet-mounted light. I bring my helmet in to dry out the liner, and the lights/battery warm up without any further thought or extra motions. Plug it in to charge every 3 days or so. My winter ride is about an hour each way and the temps get down to 0F on occasion - with this system and in these conditions, I've never had an issue with battery life.
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12-18-17, 12:15 PM
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I really like the Light and Motion Vis 360 helmet-mounted light. I bring my helmet in to dry out the liner, and the lights/battery warm up without any further thought or extra motions. Plug it in to charge every 3 days or so. My winter ride is about an hour each way and the temps get down to 0F on occasion - with this system and in these conditions, I've never had an issue with battery life.
12-18-17, 12:37 PM
#34
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I also always charge my batteries after use. That way the battery is always a full charge and I don't have to guess if I have enough light to get home. Li-ion doesn't need to be cycled like NiMH or NiCd needed to be so topping up the charge isn't as much of a problem.
Finally, alkaline batteries seem to be unaffected by the cold. I use alkaline for my taillights which are stored out in the cold. Never had a problem with them. Granted they are disposable but a set of batteries will a year or more per light so I don't feel like I'm destroying the planet by using them.
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12-18-17, 12:42 PM
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Electrochemical cell potentials are temperature dependent, as is the forward voltage drop of an LED. If the current through the LED is regulated with a simple series resistor, then the output of the light will be temperature dependent. If the LED's are held at constant current, then light output won't change. So the behavior of the light at low temperature is really a design issue, probably driven by how much you want to pay.
Likewise, simplistic charging circuits could suffer from similar issues. Lithium batteries are a special case because they have a thermal runaway mode, and can asplode if they're not charged under the correct range of conditions.
Likewise, simplistic charging circuits could suffer from similar issues. Lithium batteries are a special case because they have a thermal runaway mode, and can asplode if they're not charged under the correct range of conditions.
12-20-17, 05:23 PM
#36
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was reading safety warnings for a car battery charger I got yesterday. one of the warnings was never charge a frozen battery. they didn't say why but there's probably a good reason. was gonna take it out of my kids car, bring it inside to charge it overnite. but the warnings about gas clouds & explosions, etc had me doubting the idea. eventually my mechanic said he'd go check it out & it was probably the starter anyway
For a frozen battery, I suspect that the explosion risk is due to a higher charge being forced into a solid rather than a liquid. This probably starts gas formation...water splitting...and results in increases in pressure in the battery which can probably be highly localized.
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Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
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12-20-17, 05:54 PM
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First it's damned difficult to freeze a car battery. The electrolyte in the battery drops the freezing point significantly. The solution in the battery is about 25% sulfuric acid which drops the freezing point to -25°C (-4°F for the metrically challenged). Most of the stuff you find on the web says that a discharged battery freezes around the freezing point of water but I suspect that just Internet plagiarism at work. A fully charged battery doesn't freeze until around -60°C (-75°F).
For a frozen battery, I suspect that the explosion risk is due to a higher charge being forced into a solid rather than a liquid. This probably starts gas formation...water splitting...and results in increases in pressure in the battery which can probably be highly localized.
For a frozen battery, I suspect that the explosion risk is due to a higher charge being forced into a solid rather than a liquid. This probably starts gas formation...water splitting...and results in increases in pressure in the battery which can probably be highly localized.
12-20-17, 05:56 PM
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auto batteries aside. I wonder if a bike light battery, best practice, would be to let a very cold battery warm up inside a little while before plugging it in
12-20-17, 09:22 PM
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I wonder if it makes sense to just have two batteries, and use them on alternate days.
12-21-17, 07:46 AM
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I don't see why not. There are solid electrolytes and most conductors are solid. The fact that there is an explosion risk for changing a frozen battery says to me that there is current flow. It's probably not fast and resistance would be high but enough current is going in to split the water molecules.
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Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
12-21-17, 07:52 AM
#41
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Many battery users are unaware that consumer-grade lithium-ion batteries cannot be charged below 0°C (32°F). Although the pack appears to be charging normally, plating of metallic lithium can occur on the anode during a sub-freezing charge.
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12-21-17, 07:58 AM
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how long would it take a .6 lb bike battery to go from 17F to 50F in a 65F home?
Last edited by rumrunn6; 12-21-17 at 08:45 AM.
12-21-17, 08:45 AM
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oh sorry, I was estimating & I was waaaay off. turns out it's only 0.6 pounds
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
01-28-18, 08:03 PM
#45
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Reviving this thread since it made me think.. Last year the batteries typically lasted what I put above. This year it wasn't even lasting a day. Finally figured out why! Last year put the batteries in the panniers typically wedged with junk around it, the light I have has extensions. This year just had it attached to the stem. I moved it back last weekend and indeed it lasted 3 days this week or all week. Maybe someone needs to come up with a battery insulator!
01-29-18, 08:57 AM
#46
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My Nite Ridr Halogen was a cord remote battery.. 20 years ago , battery under your coat , helmet mount.. waterproof.
01-29-18, 12:23 PM
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I store my bike inside, and usually wait until after I've changed clothes, heard the cats report on how sad she is etc... and figure that the battery has warmed up enough by then - usually 10 to 20 minutes. The batteries don't get too cold during the ride home from being stored indoors at work, and the use helps keep them warm.
01-29-18, 08:30 PM
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Maybe you should work on redesigning the dynamo to work on Tesla wheels so they can charge themselves while driving and have infinite range.
01-30-18, 08:47 AM
#49
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Since OP I've started bringing in my batteries inside. It's an extra step in the morning to remount them but they are lasting much longer.
01-30-18, 10:06 AM
#50
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Hmmmm. I wonder if this is the reason my Bontrager taillight has been acting funny. Just before a ride I turn it on. When I get home, I find it's turned off. But I can't turn it on. So I plug it in but the charging light doesn't flash and it stays uncharged overnight.
Thinking it's reached the EOL after only three years I get another taillight at half the price but with AAA batteries.
Then I check the Bontrager and it turns on again. So I continue using it and carry my new light as a spare.
Thinking it's reached the EOL after only three years I get another taillight at half the price but with AAA batteries.
Then I check the Bontrager and it turns on again. So I continue using it and carry my new light as a spare.