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Old 02-12-18, 07:42 AM   #26
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Oh, I'm not counting my shirt and/or tee that I leave on indoors, I add 2 to 3 layers to that.
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Old 02-12-18, 07:50 AM   #27
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3 layers which should be around -5.. after that heck with it!
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Old 02-12-18, 08:56 AM   #28
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I only ride in temps down to the low 30s, but I will then wear as many as 4-5 layers: thin merino wool for the first couple, then a jacket and maybe a vest.
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Old 02-12-18, 09:10 AM   #29
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I add a layer for every 10 degrees below 60, so 5 is max, as the coldest I ride is 20.
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Old 02-12-18, 09:15 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by DaveQ24 View Post
I’ll be the outlier at the far end of the Bell curve - as many as 4 or 5 layers below the waist, 6 or 7 above the waist.
I'm at the other far end of the Bell curve. Only 2 layers up top, ever. A thin long sleeve wicking layer under a Gore Phantom 2.0 windproof jacket, and a base of bib shorts under some Pearl Izumi winter bib pants. This combo was "good" down to 12 F (-11 C) on a New Years Day 2018 century that never got above 25 F. This combo also assumes I'll be consistently riding hard and generating lots of heat. Balaclava, winter gloves with silk liners, chemical hand/toe warmers, thick Defeet socks, and winter shoes also helped me to not freeze to death. Changing a flat wouldn't have been fun.
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Old 02-12-18, 10:47 AM   #31
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Especially in winter, how many layers (upper body) are you wearing? Only three?
Yeah. Three layers (with the thermal jacket as the outer layer) gets me down to the 20sF or so. Less then 20F I usually wimp out and take the train. Besides the chest, I do two layers on the legs. The extra layer can be knee or leg covers under the bib tight. Also down in the 20sF, I usually add a balaklava and a second pair of wool socks.

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Old 02-12-18, 10:49 AM   #32
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I add a layer for every 10 degrees below 60, so 5 is max, as the coldest I ride is 20.
You must look like the Michelin man when its below freezing. Maybe try thermal bib (or pants) and jacket?
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Old 02-12-18, 11:20 AM   #33
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You must look like the Michelin man when its below freezing. Maybe try thermal bib (or pants) and jacket?
OP is asking about upper body. My system work for me, given the wide temperature range of my area between morning and evening and an hour long commute that sometimes varies 10 degrees from start to finish. Mainly keeps me from dressing too warmly.
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Old 02-12-18, 12:44 PM   #34
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3 layers at -16C/3F this morning: (1) thin, long-sleeved merino base layer, (2) medium weight polyester with long collar and (3) wind/waterproof jacket. I'll tuck my balaclava into my mid layer and zip it up over top so that there is continuous coverage, no exposed neck. Even down to -27C/-17F, I'll wear the same things although my arms will be a bit cooler and I will need to get going to warm up. I have a thicker polar fleece mid layer (also with a long collar) which I could use at -25C/-13F or colder but I would likely want to carry my lighter mid layer for the milder ride home.

The long range (14 day) forecast suggests that the coldest I'll experience within this period is -17C/1F so, not really cold enough to test the thicker polar fleece. Now that I've switched boots, my fingers and thumbs are my coldest parts and I don't think that any amount of additional warmth on my arms will really help with that. Next year, I'll have to get bar mitts as I understand they really reduce the cold on the hands.

It's funny how we adapt: here I'm using 2 relatively light insulating layers under an uninsulated wind/waterproof jacket down to as low as -27C/-17F and others talk about 4 layers at 39F/4C. Me, in the fall when it is 4C, I'd still be wearing shorts and short socks with the merino long-sleeved base layer under a long-sleeved, summer weight, cycling jersey, assuming, of course, that it isn't raining. Of course, if there was a foul day in the summer where the temperature dropped from 30C/86F one day to 10C/50F the next, I'd be getting out my winter clothes!!!

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Old 02-12-18, 01:00 PM   #35
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I usually wear a wool or waffle weave long sleeve jersey and one of 3 different coats.
1. rain coat: warmest because it blocks the most wind and brightest with lots of reflectivity.
2. new coat because of windproof panels in the front. Warm but vents nicely with the material in the back.
3. old performance "soft shell" terrible coat that you can almost see through but light and warm to certain point.

I have two layer on the bottom in cold weather bib shorts and tights.
1. 40-50 F layer
2. 40 and down
if really cold 20F or lower. I will wear knee warmers too. (have tried my knickers yet)


last week tried two pairs of socks with overshoes and feet were a touch warmer longer.
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Old 02-12-18, 03:22 PM   #36
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Here in San Diego, max 3: tech tee, then merino sweater, then quarterzip pullover. In addition, thinsulate (felty) gloves, or even ski gloves. Shorts. That will work for me down to freezing (which it can get to on cold clear winter nights)
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Old 02-13-18, 10:30 AM   #37
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I used to go as much as 4, down to 20°F when I was using a thin wind shell: tech base layer, long sleeve jersey, long sleeve t-shirt, and the wind shell.

However now I have a thicker Nashbar soft shell jacket which takes the place of 2 layers. I've ridden as low as 14°F with a tech base layer, sweat shirt, and the soft shell jacket. When it's up into the 30's I'll do the tech base layer, long sleeve t-shirt, and the soft shell jacket. Works great!
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Old 02-13-18, 10:53 AM   #38
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I don't think the question makes much sense, because it depends on the layers themselves. If I wore thick layers, I would have fewer.

Today on my morning commute, I had four upper layers: a very thin wool t-shirt, a dress shirt, a cycling jacket/jersey kind of hybrid, plus a jacket.
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Old 02-13-18, 03:54 PM   #39
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What’s your max. of layers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikewolf View Post
Especially in winter, how many layers (upper body) are you wearing? Only three?
Quote:
Originally Posted by alans View Post
I add a layer for every 10 degrees below 60, so 5 is max, as the coldest I ride is 20.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
I prefer thin layers, and have gone up to seven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I don't think the question makes much sense, because it depends on the layers themselves. If I wore thick layers, I would have fewer…
My simple answer is four for the coldest I ride, down to about 10° F or so. However I think about dressing for a ride in terms not only of layers,but also materials. Over the years Ihave developed a system of six levels of cycling attire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
The “formula” I have adopted for dressing to ride is that over the years I have established a set of six levels of dress according to temperature, ranging from 1 to 6, according to intervals of temperature of about 10 F.

This list is particularly useful at the changes of seasons from Winter to Spring and from Summer to Fall, as I start to acclimate between the seasons.

I use my chart to decide on dress by just checking the temperature. I decide just by ambient temperature, and ignore wind chill (unless severe) since there is always a wind chill on a bike.
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I think of my degrees of dress in six levels. Adopting to your table for my 14 mile commute (temperatures in parentheses):

50-70F
Level I (>70): Shorts, short sleeve shirt.

Level II (60): Add thin long legged tights and/or long-sleeve jersey
(50): Add fleece shirt, maybe a wind proof cycling jacket, and long legged cycling tights over thin tights; thin fingered gloves, thin balaclava…

30-40F
Level III (40): Heavy cycling jacket and long sleeve jersey; two layer sof tights as above; thin balaclava, maybe a woolen cap; heavier woolen gloves
(35): Add safety glasses (as goggles) that fit over my eyeglasses; extra pair of neoprene socks; balaclava and woolen cap

10-30F
Level IV (30) Add fleece jersey; thin, fingered gloves and thick wind-proof fingered gloves; neoprene extra socks and neoprene booties overshoes

Level V (25): Add windproof thin cycling jacket over fleece and under heavy cycling jacket

Level VI: (<20): Thin and thick woolen socks instead of neoprene socks; additional windproof pants [scrub pants or rainproof pants] over two pairs of tights, add neoprene face mask

<0F?
My personal best has been leaving at 8 degrees in Boston and arriving at my suburban destination at minus 9

I don't like being cold, so I tend to overdress a bit, but I have a rear trunkbag and can remove layers....
I learned to scale lists on a six-point system after a white water rafting trip since that is how rivers are assessed for difficulty.

I have told a couple of colleagues at work about this scheme, so often when they ask me about the ride in, I can reply by the numbers.

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Old 02-13-18, 04:56 PM   #40
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I don't think the question makes much sense, because it depends on the layers themselves. If I wore thick layers, I would have fewer.

exactly. I start switching to thicker layers as it gets colder and usually top out at 4. But I could look like the younger brother in a Christmas Story if I stuck to thinner ones.
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Old 02-14-18, 12:24 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
What’s your max. of layers? My simple answer is four for the coldest I ride, down to about 10° F or so. However I think about dressing for a ride in terms not only of layers,but also materials. Over the years Ihave developed a system of six levels of cycling attire
how do you find your posts and nest them like that?
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Old 02-14-18, 02:06 PM   #42
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how do you find your posts and nest them like that?
Please, one person doing that is enough. I realize I'm supposed to read them linearly, but all those markings are distracting, usually leading me to skip his posts.
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Old 02-14-18, 03:36 PM   #43
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how do you find your posts and nest them like that?
Hi Matthew,


Thanks for asking. I recall responding to a thread of yours a few years ago about organizing group rides. When I looked for it, using the word “liability” I found it was to heymatthew.

I have posted:
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
…So with my experiences in cycling, and my frequent posting over the years, if I have replied on a recurrent topic, written to my satisfaction, I’ll just quote it. A further challenge then becomes finding the post…
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
… what I have gotten directly from BF [is]…the opportunity to post and literally "journal" my thoughts and activities about cycling and lifestyle (even if nobody else reads them), but which I wouldn't write down otherwise….
Because my posts are quite personal to me, I recall them readily, and often they have key words. Using the Advanced Search feature, I can look up the keyword by posts or titles to the thread I have subscribed, to find the post I seek.

To nest the quotes, I use this formula in a linear array (quote spelled correctly):

[kwote=author A]...[kwote=author B]...[kwote]=author C]...[/quote][/quote][/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by author A
Quote:
Originally Posted by author B
Quote:
Originally Posted by author C
...
Often the quote box eliminates spaces so I have to reinsert them. One annoying problem is that the quote function will often split a quote. I compose:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
part A…Part B
and it comes out:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
part A…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
part B

You then have to copy “part A”, and insert at the beginning the second quote box, and delete the entire first box, from "quote to "/quote."

I find that about four quote boxes fit into a nested quote, for spatial organization, and I think that is the quote function limit.

FYA, just recently posted on the thread, "Commuting For The Gold"
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
If long, nested quotes with a labyrinthine post/threadhistory were an olympic sport...
The reason I nest quotes…
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
...Last year I came upon a post that to me embodied the communication style that I like about BF. In response to a long quote, turbo1889 wrote:
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Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
First of all you have no need to apologize for a lengthy post, least of all to me of all people. Part of the reason I like forums as apposed to other forms of written communal internet forms is because I consider it the "long deep conversation format" rather then the quick short snappy sound bite like format like twitter and such.
So when I nest quotes, I feel I’m emulating a conversation…”He said," then “You said," then “I said, and now I’m saying…” I leave my quotes as links to identify the author, and if anyone is interested in reading further, or verifying those quotes, they can easily be followed right from the post.
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I think that the use of quote boxes, which I have not seen elsewhere, is a remarkable way to graphically diagram a "conversation," including relevant comments from previous threads.

As my signature line notes, "I use nested quotes (to be read in that order) to improvise an imaginary conversation. Anything outside a quote box is my contribution to the current conversation."

I think it’s a succinct, hopefully entertaining way to capture the variety of a topic.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
At last I'm enshrined in a Jim from Boston quote chain, feels like the big time! Thank you.




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Old 02-14-18, 04:06 PM   #44
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Hi Matthew,

Thanks for asking. I recall responding to a thread of yours a few years ago about organizing group rides. When I looked for it, using the word “liability” I found it was to heymatthew.

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I have posted: Because my posts are quite personal to me, I recall them readily, and often they have key words. Using the Advanced Search feature, I can look up the keyword by posts or titles to which I have subscribed to find the post I seek.
Ah just admit it: you have most of your "quotable" posts bookmarked don't you?

It almost seems on topic to ask, what is your max number of layered quotes?
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Old 02-14-18, 04:13 PM   #45
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Ah just admit it: you have most of your "quotable" posts bookmarked don't you?

It almost seems on topic to ask, what is your max number of layered quotes?
That's easy; as above,
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...I find that about four quote boxes fit into a nested quote, for spatial organization, and I think that is the quote function limit.

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Old 02-14-18, 04:18 PM   #46
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That's easy; as above,


Quote:
...I find that about four quote boxes fit into a nested quote, for spatial organization, and I think that is the quote function limit.
Ah but I asked "layered", not "nested". It would include the total number of quote boxes one sees when scanning down, in linear fashion, whether nested or otherwise.
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Old 02-14-18, 04:34 PM   #47
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Ah but I asked "layered", not "nested". It would include the total numberof quote boxes one sees when scanning down, in linear fashion, whether nested or otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Please, one person doing that is enough. I realize I'm supposed to read them linearly, but all those markings are distracting, usually leading me to skip his posts.
I've not heard the term "layered; i.e, the total number of quote boxes in a single post? Well, the above one has quite a few. I count 14.


On a recently closed thread this year was,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
on a 2013 thread on Fifty-Plus, “How Do You Communicate on Forums vs Face-to-Face,” closed because of the hostile communication:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankfast
+1 Forums for me are just like fast food. If I want something healthy, I'll read some good fiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
…As a Famous Writer wrote, “If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter.

I only read the threads and posts that interest me. If I'm particularly interested in the content then I'm motivated to read no matter how long. It takes some time to write a properly composed long post, and I take my chances that my expenditure of time might connect with another interested reader.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
...BTW by way of further explanation, I like to make my posts self-explanatory, as if someone reading from the last post in a thread forward could understand the context of my post, so I include quotes expressing the entire “conversation.”

I use ellipses,"..." to eliminate as much as possible, and still leave the context of the quote comprehensible; and I bold key words and phrases to emphasize the core content of the discussion…

While even if nobody reads my posts, I do try to communicate clearly to the reader. At least I try to evenly space, and keep my paragraphs short for easier readability, FWIW.


Last edited by Jim from Boston; 02-14-18 at 07:59 PM. Reason: added BTW
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Old 02-14-18, 05:38 PM   #48
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I've not heard the term "layered; i.e, the total number of quote boxes in a single post? Well, the above one has quite a few. I count 14.

On a recently closed thread this year was,
That's because I was forced to use the word in order to play on the thread title, and "layers" is not really used in this context.

Normally I would refer to "container" or "node" to describe your "nested quote", "ply depth" to describe the number of parent nodes which successively contain a node, and "span" or "degree" to describe how many nodes were contained by a given parent node. "Layers" should be "cardinality" of the tree, but my attempt to make it somehow on topic would have failed.

*Jim, I'm just messing with you, a little bit. Part of my work involves data science, and some visualizations design, so it really is of interest to me.

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Old 02-14-18, 07:11 PM   #49
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Please, one person doing that is enough. I realize I'm supposed to read them linearly, but all those markings are distracting, usually leading me to skip his posts.
Don't you worry. I don't have enough patience or time to do that... I tend to skip too because I can't make sense of them. I just was wondering how much work was going into his posts. sorry for hijacking the thread... back to your regularly schedule bike forums thread.
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Old 02-15-18, 02:06 PM   #50
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Chiming in from Minnesota, two or three, depending on the top layer. Sometimes if it's very cold I'll go with a very light AND midweight merino, with a water/windproof shell on top (in my case, Rab Latok Alpine), and then sometimes a light OR midweight merino with a very minimally insulated top layer (I use an REI Revelcloud jacket). I've used this quite successfully down to -23F.
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