What may annoy you when commuting?
03-28-19, 03:12 PM
#202
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03-28-19, 04:27 PM
#203
Portland Fred
Not all MUPs are created equal. And even the same MUP can be a totally different place Monday at 730am than it is Saturday at 10am. Our local MUP, the American River Bike Trail, is a bike highway on weekday mornings where it's mostly commuters, people riding for fitness/training, and riders who are combining the two. On weekend mornings, it's a zoo and I will avoid it at all costs.
There's no excuse for colliding with a dog on a retracto leash. You can see the dog before you get to them, you know dogs do unpredictable things, and you know the control is not there. It's an obvious threat that's easy to avoid. If you simply go slowly, you can stop in one foot and it doesn't even matter if they suddenly charge you. Doing anything else is counting on luck which eventually runs out.
Failing to take precautions near animals is nuts -- do it with any regularity and a crash is guaranteed.
03-28-19, 04:58 PM
#204
hoppipola
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Cars
Anyone complaining about pedestrians, dogs and birds should remember that they were here first. WE are taking THEIR space, We are the danger to them, not the other way around. The only thing we can (and should) complain about is cars. Our precious air is unbreathable. No one gave them the right to take it away.
Cheers.
Cheers.
03-28-19, 05:19 PM
#205
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Not all MUPs are created equal. And even the same MUP can be a totally different place Monday at 730am than it is Saturday at 10am. Our local MUP, the American River Bike Trail, is a bike highway on weekday mornings where it's mostly commuters, people riding for fitness/training, and riders who are combining the two. On weekend mornings, it's a zoo and I will avoid it at all costs.
03-28-19, 08:41 PM
#207
☢
Not all MUPs are created equal. And even the same MUP can be a totally different place Monday at 730am than it is Saturday at 10am. Our local MUP, the American River Bike Trail, is a bike highway on weekday mornings where it's mostly commuters, people riding for fitness/training, and riders who are combining the two. On weekend mornings, it's a zoo and I will avoid it at all costs.
The very best even have barrier for cyclist. Others are precious more the crudely paved strips of asphalt where its every man for himself.
03-28-19, 09:51 PM
#208
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They're as good as local planners make them. Some are wide properly designed and maintained with designated sections for cyclist, runners, and walkers with stroller.
The very best even have barrier for cyclist. Others are precious more the crudely paved strips of asphalt where its every man for himself.
The very best even have barrier for cyclist. Others are precious more the crudely paved strips of asphalt where its every man for himself.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
They [replies] are usually lost in the morass of often scores of replies, both in agreement and dispute with mine. 
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 03-29-19 at 05:12 AM.
03-29-19, 07:45 AM
#210
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Anyone complaining about pedestrians, dogs and birds should remember that they were here first. WE are taking THEIR space, We are the danger to them, not the other way around. The only thing we can (and should) complain about is cars. Our precious air is unbreathable. No one gave them the right to take it away.
Cheers.
Cheers.
03-29-19, 07:59 AM
#211
☢
Anyone complaining about pedestrians, dogs and birds should remember that they were here first. WE are taking THEIR space, We are the danger to them, not the other way around. The only thing we can (and should) complain about is cars. Our precious air is unbreathable. No one gave them the right to take it away.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Last edited by KraneXL; 03-29-19 at 08:14 AM.
03-29-19, 08:10 AM
#212
meh
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Right!
The Midtown Greenway in Minneapolis is an organized, high-speed freeway during commuter hours and dumpster fire on warm weekends.
Also, I love to brag about Minneapolis' Cedar Lake Trail - a divided bike freeway - This is a MUP turned up to 11 in all the best ways!
There are Eastbound, Westbound, and foot paths, all 6 ft wide and separated. In this pic, we're on the Westbound lane, you can see the Eastbound lane, and the foot path is harder to see in this pic.
The Midtown Greenway in Minneapolis is an organized, high-speed freeway during commuter hours and dumpster fire on warm weekends.
Also, I love to brag about Minneapolis' Cedar Lake Trail - a divided bike freeway - This is a MUP turned up to 11 in all the best ways!
There are Eastbound, Westbound, and foot paths, all 6 ft wide and separated. In this pic, we're on the Westbound lane, you can see the Eastbound lane, and the foot path is harder to see in this pic.
03-29-19, 08:32 AM
#213
Senior Member
Not all MUPs are created equal. And even the same MUP can be a totally different place Monday at 730am than it is Saturday at 10am. Our local MUP, the American River Bike Trail, is a bike highway on weekday mornings where it's mostly commuters, people riding for fitness/training, and riders who are combining the two. On weekend mornings, it's a zoo and I will avoid it at all costs.
03-29-19, 09:12 AM
#214
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There's no excuse for colliding with a dog on a retracto leash. You can see the dog before you get to them, you know dogs do unpredictable things, and you know the control is not there. It's an obvious threat that's easy to avoid. If you simply go slowly, you can stop in one foot and it doesn't even matter if they suddenly charge you. Doing anything else is counting on luck which eventually runs out.
Failing to take precautions near animals is nuts -- do it with any regularity and a crash is guaranteed.
Failing to take precautions near animals is nuts -- do it with any regularity and a crash is guaranteed.
03-29-19, 10:26 AM
#215
Senior Member
Low-light conditions and/or rain/snow and motorists NOT using their headlights, even when it is the state law. I wish there were a) more dedicated traffic cops b) more tickets given for not using headlights when it's the law (wipers on)
03-29-19, 10:34 AM
#216
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__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Genesis 49:16-17
03-29-19, 11:43 AM
#217
Senior Member
I vehemently disagree. A dog on a retractable lead is a dog without any significant restraint, with the added "benefit" of being able to block all traffic from the "owner" to the dog. How do you expect other traffic (pedestrians, cyclist, skateboarders, or even cagers) to "take precautions" when a dog can dart from the person on the other end of the lead to thirty feet on the other side? Best hope is it's a truck, no more dog to worry about and the "owner" might learn a lesson.
03-29-19, 12:18 PM
#218
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03-29-19, 01:05 PM
#219
Portland Fred
I vehemently disagree. A dog on a retractable lead is a dog without any significant restraint, with the added "benefit" of being able to block all traffic from the "owner" to the dog. How do you expect other traffic (pedestrians, cyclist, skateboarders, or even cagers) to "take precautions" when a dog can dart from the person on the other end of the lead to thirty feet on the other side? Best hope is it's a truck, no more dog to worry about and the "owner" might learn a lesson.
If you aren't prepared to stop in time for a threat you see right in front of you, you didn't take precautions. Riding in any kind of shared space requires adjusting for the mistakes and misdeeds of others regardless of whether you're on the road or a path.
If you ride in rural areas, dogs are never on any kind of restraint -- that's why you're encountering them. The dogs are significantly bigger, faster, far meaner, you typically have much less lead time, and you could have them coming from multiple sides at once. And yet those of us who've dealt with them countless times over the years don't crash because we don't pretend nothing is happening. A lot of dog owners are irresponsible idiots, but urban dogs are so much easier to work with it's not even funny.
When people ride as if everyone is doing what they're "supposed" to with regard for whether that is actually happening, the results are predictable. As a MUP user (I walk quite a bit), I've seen plenty of conflicts involving dogs, runners, and cyclists. So far, 100% could have been avoided if *any* of the individuals involved made an obvious adjustment.
03-29-19, 02:11 PM
#220
☢
If you aren't prepared to stop in time for a threat you see right in front of you, you didn't take precautions.
At worst you sacrifice your own well-being for the sake of the child. Then the parent just moves on with their life completely oblivious to your injury or property damage.
If you take your kids for a walk there you need to be vigilant and give them your undivided attention. That's not the place to simply release them into the wild hoping strangers will babysit while you float away into your cell phone conversation. The MUPs is not a playground.
Riding in any kind of shared space requires adjusting for the mistakes and misdeeds of others regardless of whether you're on the road or a path.
If you ride in rural areas, dogs are never on any kind of restraint -- that's why you're encountering them. The dogs are significantly bigger, faster, far meaner, you typically have much less lead time, and you could have them coming from multiple sides at once. And yet those of us who've dealt with them countless times over the years don't crash because we don't pretend nothing is happening. A lot of dog owners are irresponsible idiots, but urban dogs are so much easier to work with it's not even funny.
When people ride as if everyone is doing what they're "supposed" to with regard for whether that is actually happening, the results are predictable.
As a MUP user (I walk quite a bit), I've seen plenty of conflicts involving dogs, runners, and cyclists. So far, 100% could have been avoided if *any* of the individuals involved made an obvious adjustment.
Wouldn't you know that no matter what the group does there's always that one individual that defies logic and does the opposite. He takes the side of the stairway where others are going up to go down, against the flow of people.
Thing is, he ends up at the bottom at the same time as the rest of the group, so other than the chaos, what was his point? Is the carnage he causes as the line of people have to shift something you can predict or avoid?
Last edited by KraneXL; 03-29-19 at 02:14 PM.
03-29-19, 02:23 PM
#221
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So tell me, Oh Classy MUP Walker, when a dog takes off running, the owner lets the mutt run, and the dog runs past you, the lead hits your legs, and almost knocks you down (or maybe the dog DID knock you down, if you're older or younger or smaller), how could YOU, the walker, have avoided it? Stay off the MUP and let the dogs run loose?
03-29-19, 02:43 PM
#222
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Anyone complaining about pedestrians, dogs and birds should remember that they were here first. WE are taking THEIR space,
We are the danger to them, not the other way around. The only thing we can (and should) complain about is cars. Our precious air is unbreathable. No one gave them the right to take it away.
We are the danger to them, not the other way around. The only thing we can (and should) complain about is cars. Our precious air is unbreathable. No one gave them the right to take it away.
This thread has deteriorated into another pointless popcorn thread about MUPS, after a stint as a popcorn thread about even just riding on the road at all.
Just yesterday I posted elsewhere:
Just yesterday I posted elsewhere:
If we ride often enough on MUPs we've all seen...wannabe racers riding too fast for conditions, sometimes two abreast, sometimes in mini-pelotons and not giving any consideration to other users -- slower cyclists, old folks walking with canes or walkers, families with strollers and toddlers and dogs on 50 yard retractable non-leashes (the dogs too), etc.
That's life on the multi-use path. Always been that way. Always will be. It's just the nature of the thing…
Jerks are gonna jerk. But most folks are pretty cool about using the MUP. I prefer to keep the latter in mind
That's life on the multi-use path. Always been that way. Always will be. It's just the nature of the thing…
Jerks are gonna jerk. But most folks are pretty cool about using the MUP. I prefer to keep the latter in mind
…My own thought is that a MUP is not so much a commuter route, or training venue, but a pastoral park, where people can enjoy themselves without too many worries, and needn’t be always vigilant, as is a cyclist on the Road.
A few years ago I went on a walking tour of the Boston’s Emerald Necklace park system designed by the great 19th century landscape architect Frederic Law Olmsted with the concept of a Promenade in mind.
According to the Park Ranger, it was planned “to take a leisurely walk, ride, or drive in public, especially to meet or be seen by others” (Oxford Dictionary).
The strollers would be dressed in their best Sunday clothes, and running and horses (and ? bicycles) would be discouraged.
My own Golden Rule of Cycling is “Do unto the Pedestrians, as you would have the Cagers do unto you.”
A few years ago I went on a walking tour of the Boston’s Emerald Necklace park system designed by the great 19th century landscape architect Frederic Law Olmsted with the concept of a Promenade in mind.
According to the Park Ranger, it was planned “to take a leisurely walk, ride, or drive in public, especially to meet or be seen by others” (Oxford Dictionary).
The strollers would be dressed in their best Sunday clothes, and running and horses (and ? bicycles) would be discouraged.
My own Golden Rule of Cycling is “Do unto the Pedestrians, as you would have the Cagers do unto you.”
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 03-29-19 at 04:41 PM.
03-29-19, 05:09 PM
#223
Portland Fred
So tell me, Oh Classy MUP Walker, when a dog takes off running, the owner lets the mutt run, and the dog runs past you, the lead hits your legs, and almost knocks you down (or maybe the dog DID knock you down, if you're older or younger or smaller), how could YOU, the walker, have avoided it? Stay off the MUP and let the dogs run loose?
If the dog runs and jumps on you, yes you could be knocked down. So if it looks like that could happen, you do what you do anywhere else -- slow down, stop if necessary, and put the bike between you and the dog.
Responsibilities are the same and everyone should cooperate. But that's just not how life works.
One thing I find amazing is the adventures some people manage to have in the easiest environments.
03-29-19, 05:24 PM
#224
hoppipola
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@OBoile:
I'm trying to say that the world is here for everyone. Me and You, that kid or that old lady, the homeless and the rich. Instead of taking bike lanes, sidewalks and skyscrapers for granted, imagine our planet as a shared ground.
Bicycles are a commodity, a tool. Thanks to them, you move faster. You have power over those who don't use them, but power isn't a right, it's a privilege. And being a privilege, you have to be grateful and think about those from whom you are taking a piece of earth to make it YOURS, so you can get ANNOYED. When complaining about a pedestrian standing on a bike lane, your way are basically acting like those disrespectful car drivers.
Let's all slow down a little and try to wake up, let's appreciate all those obvious things that empower us and make our lives easier instead of finding new opportunities to show how dissatisfied we are with our own selves.
Just look at all those car drivers, they don't even realize they are moving while sitting !
@KraneXL: all this infrastructure has been invented by man to solve problems that have arisen as a result of man's struggle to solve earlier problems. Don't get caught in this dilemma.
The rule should be simple : the more power you have, the less consideration you should get and the the more consideration you should give : power = 1/consideration
Who has the power ?
I'm trying to say that the world is here for everyone. Me and You, that kid or that old lady, the homeless and the rich. Instead of taking bike lanes, sidewalks and skyscrapers for granted, imagine our planet as a shared ground.
Bicycles are a commodity, a tool. Thanks to them, you move faster. You have power over those who don't use them, but power isn't a right, it's a privilege. And being a privilege, you have to be grateful and think about those from whom you are taking a piece of earth to make it YOURS, so you can get ANNOYED. When complaining about a pedestrian standing on a bike lane, your way are basically acting like those disrespectful car drivers.
Let's all slow down a little and try to wake up, let's appreciate all those obvious things that empower us and make our lives easier instead of finding new opportunities to show how dissatisfied we are with our own selves.
Just look at all those car drivers, they don't even realize they are moving while sitting !
@KraneXL: all this infrastructure has been invented by man to solve problems that have arisen as a result of man's struggle to solve earlier problems. Don't get caught in this dilemma.
The rule should be simple : the more power you have, the less consideration you should get and the the more consideration you should give : power = 1/consideration
Who has the power ?
- Humans driving dangerous polluting vehicles
- Humans on Bicycles
- Humans
- Animals
- Plants
- Plants
- Animals
- Humans
- Humans on Bicycles
- Humans driving dangerous polluting vehicles
03-29-19, 05:38 PM
#225
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@OBoile:
I'm trying to say that the world is here for everyone. Me and You, that kid or that old lady, the homeless and the rich. Instead of taking bike lanes, sidewalks and skyscrapers for granted, imagine our planet as a shared ground.
Bicycles are a commodity, a tool. Thanks to them, you move faster. You have power over those who don't use them, but power isn't a right, it's a privilege. And being a privilege, you have to be grateful and think about those from whom you are taking a piece of earth to make it YOURS, so you can get ANNOYED. When complaining about a pedestrian standing on a bike lane, your way are basically acting like those disrespectful car drivers.
Let's all slow down a little and try to wake up, let's appreciate all those obvious things that empower us and make our lives easier instead of finding new opportunities to show how dissatisfied we are with our own selves.
Just look at all those car drivers, they don't even realize they are moving while sitting !
@KraneXL: all this infrastructure has been invented by man to solve problems that have arisen as a result of man's struggle to solve earlier problems. Don't get caught in this dilemma.
The rule should be simple : the more power you have, the less consideration you should get and the the more consideration you should give : power = 1/consideration
Who has the power ?
I'm trying to say that the world is here for everyone. Me and You, that kid or that old lady, the homeless and the rich. Instead of taking bike lanes, sidewalks and skyscrapers for granted, imagine our planet as a shared ground.
Bicycles are a commodity, a tool. Thanks to them, you move faster. You have power over those who don't use them, but power isn't a right, it's a privilege. And being a privilege, you have to be grateful and think about those from whom you are taking a piece of earth to make it YOURS, so you can get ANNOYED. When complaining about a pedestrian standing on a bike lane, your way are basically acting like those disrespectful car drivers.
Let's all slow down a little and try to wake up, let's appreciate all those obvious things that empower us and make our lives easier instead of finding new opportunities to show how dissatisfied we are with our own selves.
Just look at all those car drivers, they don't even realize they are moving while sitting !
@KraneXL: all this infrastructure has been invented by man to solve problems that have arisen as a result of man's struggle to solve earlier problems. Don't get caught in this dilemma.
The rule should be simple : the more power you have, the less consideration you should get and the the more consideration you should give : power = 1/consideration
Who has the power ?
- Humans driving dangerous polluting vehicles
- Humans on Bicycles
- Humans
- Animals
- Plants
- Plants
- Animals
- Humans
- Humans on Bicycles
- Humans driving dangerous polluting vehicles