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Slow Down And Think

Old 12-16-16, 07:34 PM
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Slow Down And Think

To make a long story shore, as a new Tadpole Trike rider I did a dumb, dumb. When I was stopping I unclipped and put a foot down, just like on my road bike. But, unlike my road bike that didn't work very well.


My foot and leg were pulled back under the axle and steering mechanism. So, there I was in the middle of the trail, with a big ouch. Just how big I didn't know.


As bystanders and my riding partner were assessing the situation a self-centered, arrogant, biker came by at full speed shouting "Get Off The Trail"! Needless to say, this was Not the way to go.


Once we got squared away we did get off the trail. But, I was reluctant to skip any steps in the assessment process. A leg and maybe more was at stake.


A bystander told the Unthinking One to apologize. Which he did.


But, proof he just didn't get it, was that he apologized for shouting, not for going by at full speed and endangering us all.


Apparently he isn't alone. Shortly after, in a post on another forum, a person posted the rules from somewhere saying that if there is a problem you should get off the trail.


THINK, If you see a mob on the trail don't start playing trail police. Figure out how to avoid hurting anyone.
SLOW DOWN should be your first reaction. Taking a few extra seconds isn't going to hurt you. Not doing so might kill someone else.


Overwhelming majority of people are considerate. But, it only takes one of these to permanently change, or extinguish someone's life.
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Old 12-16-16, 07:59 PM
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Cyclists are generally egotistical jerks. The drive just like they ride, their whole life is rush rush rush, and don't slow them down.
If you die, do so well off the trail!
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Old 12-16-16, 08:28 PM
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Sorry, I'm not tracking the details.

You have the rude one flying by and shouting as he did so. Then you have him among the onlookers.

Did he stop? If so, despite his initial rudeness in shouting at you, he did slow and stop, and didn't endanger anyone or anything except your feelings. Of course, if he did fly by, he still didn't hurt anybody, but doesn't get credit for caring about what may have been an injured person in that mob.

I'm not saying he's a good guy, but wonder if you're over reacting.

Meanwhile, how's the leg or ankle? Were you able to simply walk it off, or is there a sprain of some kind or other lingering issue?
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Old 12-16-16, 08:52 PM
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If we ride often enough on MUPs we've all seen people parking in the middle of the path to chatter with another cyclist/jogger/dog walker, etc., mess with their phones, tie their shoes or loiter for no apparent reason.

And we've all seen folks who stopped because they fell and needed a few moments to gather their wits, or to quickly assess a mechanical problem before moving off the main path.

And we've all seen wannabe racers riding too fast for conditions, sometimes two abreast, sometimes in mini-pelotons and not giving any consideration to other users -- slower cyclists, old folks walking with canes or walkers, families with strollers and toddlers and dogs on 50 yard retractable non-leashes (the dogs too), etc.

That's life on the multi-use path. Always been that way. Always will be. It's just the nature of the thing.

Public meetings earlier this year, organized by trail authorities to discuss issues with users, revealed some interesting points of contention between users.
  • The runners thought cyclists had no business riding on the gravel/chat trail (they were unaware that weekly gravel rides had been going on for awhile, and that gravel riding was actually a thing, and some cyclists enjoyed it).
  • I countered that on busy days and times I preferred the lighter traffic on the wider gravel/chat trail to the paved path. Some days and times the paved path is dominated by the wannabe racers, especially the tri-folk barreling along with their heads down, arms in superman position, hands nowhere near the brakes. Other times/days, parts of the paved path are dominated by joggers and walkers, especially with families and groups. I'm not going to keep expecting other folks to move for me. It's easier to use the adjacent unpaved path and not crowd or rush other users.
  • Some folks suggested rigidly enforced speed limits of 15 mph or slower. I didn't support that suggestion, even though I seldom exceed 15 mph anyway. Most fast cyclists I see do ride with consideration for other users, slowing down when appropriate, announcing they're passing, etc.
  • Others suggested volunteer trail monitors to remind people how they should be using the trails. That seemed a bit too grade school hall monitorish to me. There are plenty of signs at every trail head and parking area reminding folks how to use the shared resource. And most folks do cooperate.

The actual end result? Nothing. Presumably the status quo was considered a reasonable, if not optimal, equilibrium considering the diverse users.

Jerks are gonna jerk. But most folks are pretty cool about using the MUP. I prefer to keep the latter in mind.
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Old 12-16-16, 09:19 PM
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Other than 3 dogs on yo-yo leashes walking their one "master", my only greenway pet peeve is two trikes stopping in opposite directions across the path width to chat about their trikes.
Different parts of the trails vary in pedestrian traffic. It tends to be that around park trailheads there will be a lot more pedestrian traffic, which should be anticipated.
I pick my gearing so I will not exceed 20 mph, but am normally riding 15.

It's a normal reaction when you're rounding a blind drop on a greenway/MUP to react negatively to people standing their bikes in the path.
When you see it's because of a wreck, that reaction goes away. That doesn't mean you haven't already voiced an objection.
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Old 12-16-16, 10:55 PM
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and at that NTE 20mph, I get passed (not a lot, but I get passed)

George Carlin said on the road anybody going slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster is a maniac.

In your interaction with the "self-centered, arrogant, biker" no injury was widened or sustained by others. It may have left a bad taste, which can also work both ways.
Honestly, how many adjectives do you need to describe this person whom you don't know?
Is he responsible for your admitted dumb mistake?
rhetorical questions

Last edited by bulldog1935; 12-17-16 at 06:14 AM.
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Old 12-17-16, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
As bystanders and my riding partner were assessing the situation a self-centered, arrogant, biker came by at full speed shouting "Get Off The Trail"! Needless to say, this was Not the way to go.
Did you crash in the middle of a popular Strava segment? Or, perhaps just before the end of the segment.. so the guy had been huffing hard for a half hour... only to get the sprint finish messed up?

Of course, I've learned to take it all with a grain of salt. There is always the next run.

You can't imagine the commotion a bald eagle can make in the middle of a Strava segment
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Old 12-17-16, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Did you crash in the middle of a popular Strava segment? Or, perhaps just before the end of the segment.. so the guy had been huffing hard for a half hour... only to get the sprint finish messed up?

Of course, I've learned to take it all with a grain of salt. There is always the next run.

You can't imagine the commotion a bald eagle can make in the middle of a Strava segment
Sounds like there's quite an interesting story behind that statement.




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Old 12-17-16, 08:23 AM
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Slow Down and Think

Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
If we ride often enough on MUPs we've all seen people parking in the middle of the path to chatter with another cyclist/jogger/dog walker, etc., mess with their phones, tie their shoes or loiter for no apparent reason.

And we've all seen folks who stopped because they fell and needed a few moments to gather their wits, or to quickly assess a mechanical problem before moving off the main path.

And we've all seen wannabe racers riding too fast for conditions, sometimes two abreast, sometimes in mini-pelotons and not giving any consideration to other users -- slower cyclists, old folks walking with canes or walkers, families with strollers and toddlers and dogs on 50 yard retractable non-leashes (the dogs too), etc.

That's life on the multi-use path. Always been that way. Always will be. It's just the nature of the thing….
1+…Nicely said. On the local Metro Boston Regional Discussion thread one subscriber writes nearly exclusively about the well-trod Minuteman Bikeway (multi-user path) out of Arlington, MA. I’ve likened him to its “town crier.” He once described that MUP as a virtual extension of the typical New England Town Common, for use by all.


My own thought is that a MUP is not so much a commuter route, or training venue, but a pastoral park, where people can enjoy themselves without too many worries, and needn’t be always vigilant, as is a cyclist on the Road.

A few years ago I went on a walking tour of the Boston’s Emerald Necklace park system designed by the great 19th century landscape architect Frederic Law Olmsted with the concept of a Promenade in mind. According to the Park Ranger, it was planned “to take a leisurely walk, ride, or drive in public, especially to meet or be seen by others (Oxford Dictionary). The strollers would be dressed in their best clothes, and running and horses (? bicycles) would be discouraged.

My own Golden Rule of Cycling is “Do unto the Pedestrians, as you would have the Cagers do unto you.

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 12-17-16 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 12-17-16, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by IndianaRecRider View Post
Sounds like there's quite an interesting story behind that statement.

There are about 4 local bike path segments that I've deemed reasonably safe for sprinting (25 to 30 MPH, solo). Mostly short segments. I have a mild disinterest in most of the rest of the segments, some which seem to go through too busy of areas.

But, I've always told myself that I'll abort any run if conditions dictate.

The eagle was one aborted segment... when a small crowd of people were looking at the sky, and wandering across the path (10 foot path?).

Another aborted run... 20 foot wide bike path. Someone was looking at flowers or something on the side, then darted directly across the path in front of me, side to side. I laid a little rubber on the road for that one... but that is life.

Plenty of other things to stress about than other users on a shared bike path (MUP).

I never yell. Just slow down and yield to other trail users.

One thing, always ride reasonably predictably. So, a trike suddenly stopping in front of another person could be a bit of a pain, but not that much of an issue if already stopped.

Visibility, of course, also varies on the bike paths... and all of my "sprints" are in high visibility, low traffic areas.
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Old 12-17-16, 11:28 AM
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So you do a "dumb dumb" on the trail without thinking, and put others in danger, then you want another guy to apologize for not thinking?

I hope you apologized too!
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Old 12-17-16, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
Slow Down and Think

1+…Nicely said. On the local Metro Boston Regional Discussion thread one subscriber writes nearly exclusively about the well-trod Minuteman Bikeway (multi-user path) out of Arlington, MA. I’ve likened him to its “town crier.” He once described that MUP as a virtual extension of the typical New England Town Common, for use by all.

My own thought is that a MUP is not so much a commuter route, or training venue, but a pastoral park, where people can enjoy themselves without too many worries, and needn’t be always vigilant, as is a cyclist on the Road.

A few years ago I went on a walking tour of the Boston’s Emerald Necklace park system designed by the great 19th century landscape architect Frederic Law Olmsted with the concept of a Promenade in mind. According to the Park Ranger, it was planned “to take a leisurely walk, ride, or drive in public, especially to meet or be seen by others (Oxford Dictionary). The strollers would be dressed in their best clothes, and running and horses (? bicycles) would be discouraged.

My own Golden Rule of Cycling is “Do unto the Pedestrians, as you would have the Cagers do unto you.
Good point regarding Olmstead. I hadn't given much thought to his influence until I read Devil In The White City, which neatly wove together a fascinating narrative about a serial killer around the framework of the Chicago World's Fair/Columbian Exposition and the influences on architecture and landscape design.

Olmstead's influence is very much present in Fort Worth's Trinity Park, which is -- and should be -- a place for a leisurely stroll with children, ambling seniors on canes or walkers, dogs, or couples holding hands. I always ride through those populated sections slowly, as much to enjoy the sight of folks enjoying themselves, as out of any special consideration for their slower pace. I don't really understand the cyclists who feel the need to continually call out "On your left!" to nudge pedestrians out of their way. Perhaps it should be our responsibility to nudge ourselves out of their way.

But cyclists are funny creatures. Many serious cyclists who prefer fast bikes, fast clothing and a fast pace would disdain riding on a city sidewalk, yet that's exactly what they're doing when riding through those popular park areas. It's only a coincidence that the paved path and gravel trail they consider a "cycling path" happens to seem contiguous with the walkways used by folks enjoying the park. But we don't consider the contiguous pavement between street and sidewalk to be all the same, even though there's a seamless ramp at nearly every corner to accommodate wheelchairs and folks with disabilities.

And it's necessary to slow down a bit only for a few hundred yards at a time, because the popular park areas are relatively few compared with the many miles of trails that are mainly used by cyclists and joggers/walkers. It's even possible to bypass the sidewalk completely in some parts of Trinity Park and use the same streets provided for cars.
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Old 12-17-16, 12:49 PM
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Should have realized when I made a plea for people to Slow Down and Think it would attract the internet blah blah hobbyists. For the regulars I can only offer my apologies.


I hope all the blah blah doesn't detract from the original plea. Doesn't matter why the people are on the trail. Doesn't matter the rules. Doesn't matter what the rider is doing for fun. In fact, nothing matters except the rider needs to slow down, pull over, stop if needed, and above all not cause, or add to a situation.


It is the right thing to do.
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Old 12-17-16, 12:51 PM
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So How is your Foot?
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Old 12-17-16, 12:55 PM
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I agree that some people did come down a bit hard here, but you still haven't explained he issue well.

So the rider yelled as he sped around you. Rude, yes, but how was anybody endangered. Maybe they felt as if they were being endangered, but apparently the rider was able to control his bike, so IMO, it's no harm, no foul.

So, I buy the point about rudeness, but still think you're overreacting.

BTW - I asked earlier and you didn't answer. Is your leg OK? Am I to take the no response as a yes?
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Old 12-17-16, 01:01 PM
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THINK, If you see a mob on the trail don't start playing trail police. Figure out how to avoid hurting anyone.
SLOW DOWN should be your first reaction
.

@HawkOwl nailed it with this. IMO.

You can't really argue multi-user trail etiquette because there are so many different uses going on, but the first priority is to not endanger anyone. Then sort it out, if you really have to.
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Old 12-18-16, 01:26 AM
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I think the OP's advise is excellent and that we should all apply it regardless of our mode of movement at the time, be it bike, roller skate, motorcycle, car or 18-wheeler. A little care and courtesy makes the day better for most.
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Old 12-18-16, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
There are about 4 local bike path segments that I've deemed reasonably safe for sprinting (25 to 30 MPH, solo). Mostly short segments. I have a mild disinterest in most of the rest of the segments, some which seem to go through too busy of areas.

But, I've always told myself that I'll abort any run if conditions dictate.

The eagle was one aborted segment... when a small crowd of people were looking at the sky, and wandering across the path (10 foot path?).

Another aborted run... 20 foot wide bike path. Someone was looking at flowers or something on the side, then darted directly across the path in front of me, side to side. I laid a little rubber on the road for that one... but that is life.

Plenty of other things to stress about than other users on a shared bike path (MUP).

I never yell. Just slow down and yield to other trail users.

One thing, always ride reasonably predictably. So, a trike suddenly stopping in front of another person could be a bit of a pain, but not that much of an issue if already stopped.

Visibility, of course, also varies on the bike paths... and all of my "sprints" are in high visibility, low traffic areas.
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Old 12-18-16, 08:02 AM
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this first person on this thread to call people names is the OP - came back and did it again while apologizing (?) in the same post.
You really don't know where or how any of us ride. We may have been thinking on these trails years ahead of you.

One day, some self appointed trail police guy coming the other way was hand-motioning and yelling at my daughter to slow down - I just about stopped and slowed him down. What my daughter is doing on her half of the macadam is none of his business.

I'm friends with the Actual police and Trail Stewards (know them by name) on my greenways/MUP. I generally ride as fast as conditions permit, and I do pick my gear so I will not exceed 20 mph.
I don't even have to demonstrate my panic stop skills to you. But I've had kids hiding behind pylons and playing chicken by jumping across the path in front of bikes.

I will say this again. The guy who yelled didn't hurt anybody, and doesn't deserve name-calling or blame for this incident.

I was behind a runner yesterday who intentionally does not move over when asked to by a bicyclist. Some bicyclists blame that selfish attitude on other bicyclists. But one's selfishness can never have anything to do with another person (or it wouldn't be selfishness). The next random runner was an old guy who just didn't have his hearing aids. I will admit muttering something obscene about the former and laughing at the latter.

Share the trail. Big signs all over. There are going to be good days and bad days. As much as we would like to Control other people, all we can control is ourselves.
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Old 12-18-16, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
If we ride often enough on MUPs we've all seen people parking in the middle of the path to chatter with another cyclist/jogger/dog walker, etc., mess with their phones, tie their shoes or loiter for no apparent reason.

And we've all seen folks who stopped because they fell and needed a few moments to gather their wits, or to quickly assess a mechanical problem before moving off the main path.

And we've all seen wannabe racers riding too fast for conditions, sometimes two abreast, sometimes in mini-pelotons and not giving any consideration to other users -- slower cyclists, old folks walking with canes or walkers, families with strollers and toddlers and dogs on 50 yard retractable non-leashes (the dogs too), etc.

That's life on the multi-use path. Always been that way. Always will be. It's just the nature of the thing.

Public meetings earlier this year, organized by trail authorities to discuss issues with users, revealed some interesting points of contention between users.
  • The runners thought cyclists had no business riding on the gravel/chat trail (they were unaware that weekly gravel rides had been going on for awhile, and that gravel riding was actually a thing, and some cyclists enjoyed it).
  • I countered that on busy days and times I preferred the lighter traffic on the wider gravel/chat trail to the paved path. Some days and times the paved path is dominated by the wannabe racers, especially the tri-folk barreling along with their heads down, arms in superman position, hands nowhere near the brakes. Other times/days, parts of the paved path are dominated by joggers and walkers, especially with families and groups. I'm not going to keep expecting other folks to move for me. It's easier to use the adjacent unpaved path and not crowd or rush other users.
  • Some folks suggested rigidly enforced speed limits of 15 mph or slower. I didn't support that suggestion, even though I seldom exceed 15 mph anyway. Most fast cyclists I see do ride with consideration for other users, slowing down when appropriate, announcing they're passing, etc.
  • Others suggested volunteer trail monitors to remind people how they should be using the trails. That seemed a bit too grade school hall monitorish to me. There are plenty of signs at every trail head and parking area reminding folks how to use the shared resource. And most folks do cooperate.

The actual end result? Nothing. Presumably the status quo was considered a reasonable, if not optimal, equilibrium considering the diverse users.

Jerks are gonna jerk. But most folks are pretty cool about using the MUP. I prefer to keep the latter in mind.
I ride thousands of miles a year on MUPs, and that's pretty much my conclusion too.

People are tribal. They tend to only consider those like themselves in their activities. So runners/walkers see things from a runner/walker perspective, and cyclists see things from their perspective.

Pet peeves of mine, from a cyclist's perspective? Lots. Top among them are the people walking smack down the center of a 20 foot wide MUP all by themselves. On top of that with headphones on, so they can't hear anyone coming. A close second are those with dogs that are either unleashed or attached to a 20 foot long leash that stretches completely across the path. Arrgggghh!

And the cyclists? The pet peeve are those riding in utter darkness without any kind of light at all ... often in the oncoming lane(!)

But that is the nature of the beast. You've got to expect it and deal with it.
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Old 12-18-16, 10:41 AM
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Too often trail users think it is their back yard.
But there is traffic of all kind--the worse are dogs on yoyo leash, 3 or 4 if not 10 year old riding all over, mothers with 2 baby carrier side by side and then large family groups who are behaving like gangs!
I avoid MUPs like the plague--unfortunately I live next to one and have to use it to get going on at least half of my rides!
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Old 12-18-16, 10:49 AM
  #22  
Bob Ross
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Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
Should have realized when I made a plea for people to Slow Down and Think it would attract the internet blah blah hobbyists.
Your "plea" comes across as holier-than-thou proselytizing, did you really expect people would thank you for your lecture?
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Old 12-18-16, 10:54 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
To make a long story shore, as a new Tadpole Trike rider I did a dumb, dumb. When I was stopping I unclipped and put a foot down, just like on my road bike. But, unlike my road bike that didn't work very well.


My foot and leg were pulled back under the axle and steering mechanism. So, there I was in the middle of the trail, with a big ouch. Just how big I didn't know.


As bystanders and my riding partner were assessing the situation a self-centered, arrogant, biker came by at full speed shouting "Get Off The Trail"! Needless to say, this was Not the way to go.


Once we got squared away we did get off the trail. But, I was reluctant to skip any steps in the assessment process. A leg and maybe more was at stake.


A bystander told the Unthinking One to apologize. Which he did.


But, proof he just didn't get it, was that he apologized for shouting, not for going by at full speed and endangering us all.


Apparently he isn't alone. Shortly after, in a post on another forum, a person posted the rules from somewhere saying that if there is a problem you should get off the trail.


THINK, If you see a mob on the trail don't start playing trail police. Figure out how to avoid hurting anyone.
SLOW DOWN should be your first reaction. Taking a few extra seconds isn't going to hurt you. Not doing so might kill someone else.


Overwhelming majority of people are considerate. But, it only takes one of these to permanently change, or extinguish someone's life.
Well, I'd say that for starters you violated the #1 rule of emergency response - scene safety. If you couldn't be moved, you should have sent someone from your group down the trail to warn those coming. Had that happened, there would have been no rude yelling and you might have gotten more help instead. If you could be moved, you should have been moved ASAP to a safe place.

So I get it that your leg hurt but it could have been a lot worse and your first mistake could have endangered a lot more than just you and your leg.

Based on that, I think you deserved the scolding.

J.
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Old 12-18-16, 11:17 AM
  #24  
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Who clips in to a trike?
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Old 12-18-16, 11:18 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
Well, I'd say that for starters you violated the #1 rule of emergency response - scene safety. If you couldn't be moved, you should have sent someone from your group down the trail to warn those coming. Had that happened, there would have been no rude yelling and you might have gotten more help instead. If you could be moved, you should have been moved ASAP to a safe place.

So I get it that your leg hurt but it could have been a lot worse and your first mistake could have endangered a lot more than just you and your leg.

Based on that, I think you deserved the scolding.

J.
Except that a rider should expect it anyway. On some MUP's. I'm guessing that your MUP is generally more well-behaved and it's objectively a good idea but I can come across people stopped at any time, and on nice weekends forget about it. I've never had someone warn me about those situations except, ironically, roadies coming from the other way.

Some people think that I ride too fast, and I know that but I also slow down for everything I see ahead and I never whiff by someone closely. No one is ever endangered from my riding. I also walk and jog on the Greenway and what bugs me most are the self-appointed safety monitors who like to bark out instructions. Often while doing something unsafe themselves so I can emphasize with OP. I don't really know what else went on but he's at least right about showing down when you see something like that, and about the unnecessary scolding. IMO.
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