Looking for a new commuter/offroad bike
#26
Virgo
I think Sheldon Brown put like a 7sp (could be wrong) on a Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hub with a triple crankset for a total of 63 speeds! I could be wrong on the details but I know he did something similar.
I don't disagree with you but 1x drivetrains have come a long way.
I understand (and correct me if I am mistaken) but in order to shift a 2x setup properly (properly, meaning each successive shift has the minimum increase in gear ratio) you need to execute "double shifts" whereby you're shifting the FD and RD simultaneously.... is this correct? If so, I am no where NEAR a good enough rider to be able to take advantage and I am probably one that's better off with a 1x drivetrain (baby steps now, I was on a single speed for 2 years! Those have their place in this world as well!)
If this is true, then does your shifting pattern change drastically for triples or do you ride those like I used to on my 1999 MTB whereby I rode on the middle ring most of the time, used the small ring as a bailout option, and the big ring so that I didn't spin out downhill???
I don't disagree with you but 1x drivetrains have come a long way.
I understand (and correct me if I am mistaken) but in order to shift a 2x setup properly (properly, meaning each successive shift has the minimum increase in gear ratio) you need to execute "double shifts" whereby you're shifting the FD and RD simultaneously.... is this correct? If so, I am no where NEAR a good enough rider to be able to take advantage and I am probably one that's better off with a 1x drivetrain (baby steps now, I was on a single speed for 2 years! Those have their place in this world as well!)
If this is true, then does your shifting pattern change drastically for triples or do you ride those like I used to on my 1999 MTB whereby I rode on the middle ring most of the time, used the small ring as a bailout option, and the big ring so that I didn't spin out downhill???
#27
Senior Member
I'd say poor to average. The main roads are getting rebuilt and are overall in pretty good shape, the smaller ones though can get horrible. City/town streets - depends on the city/town. Sadly, Rīga, the capital, has some of the worst.
#28
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I think Sheldon Brown put like a 7sp (could be wrong) on a Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hub with a triple crankset for a total of 63 speeds! I could be wrong on the details but I know he did something similar.
I don't disagree with you but 1x drivetrains have come a long way.
I understand (and correct me if I am mistaken) but in order to shift a 2x setup properly (properly, meaning each successive shift has the minimum increase in gear ratio) you need to execute "double shifts" whereby you're shifting the FD and RD simultaneously.... is this correct? If so, I am no where NEAR a good enough rider to be able to take advantage and I am probably one that's better off with a 1x drivetrain (baby steps now, I was on a single speed for 2 years! Those have their place in this world as well!)
If this is true, then does your shifting pattern change drastically for triples or do you ride those like I used to on my 1999 MTB whereby I rode on the middle ring most of the time, used the small ring as a bailout option, and the big ring so that I didn't spin out downhill???
I don't disagree with you but 1x drivetrains have come a long way.
I understand (and correct me if I am mistaken) but in order to shift a 2x setup properly (properly, meaning each successive shift has the minimum increase in gear ratio) you need to execute "double shifts" whereby you're shifting the FD and RD simultaneously.... is this correct? If so, I am no where NEAR a good enough rider to be able to take advantage and I am probably one that's better off with a 1x drivetrain (baby steps now, I was on a single speed for 2 years! Those have their place in this world as well!)
If this is true, then does your shifting pattern change drastically for triples or do you ride those like I used to on my 1999 MTB whereby I rode on the middle ring most of the time, used the small ring as a bailout option, and the big ring so that I didn't spin out downhill???
Here’s a comparison of a road compact double and a road triple. If you look at the shift pattern for the triple, you can see that the steps are smaller between the ranges. The compact double does require a double shift (or more) to maintain a similar cadence. If you go from the 18 tooth gear in the high range on the double to the 18 tooth gear in the low range, there is a 20 gear inch difference and a 10mph difference. The same shift on the triple give only about a 10 gear inch difference and about a 5 mph difference. Additionally, with a triple, the range is wider.
As for the 1x vs 3x, here’s a comparison of a 1x (32 by 11-34) and a common 3x. You can see that the 1x has a low high...you’ll spin out at a fairly low speed...and a fairly high low gear. If you go to a wider range cassette in the 1x, you can get a lower low but the high still suffers. Change to a larger chainring and the low suffers.
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#29
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#30
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Oh man, you know I love a gearing thread. I'm going to save it for another time though.
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#31
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In my opinion, 2x systems are about the dumbest thing to be put on bikes since U-brakes...and those were awful. 2x systems have the range but shifting them presents the kinds of problems that you detail. 1x has limitation problems as I’ve detailed above. They are simple but limited. Triples are a bit more complicated because of the front derailer but they offer range...my set up currently ranges from up to 110 gear inches to 15”. I can climb walls and fly down the other side. And I’ve never found the front derailer to be that hard to set up.
Here’s a comparison of a road compact double and a road triple. If you look at the shift pattern for the triple, you can see that the steps are smaller between the ranges. The compact double does require a double shift (or more) to maintain a similar cadence. If you go from the 18 tooth gear in the high range on the double to the 18 tooth gear in the low range, there is a 20 gear inch difference and a 10mph difference. The same shift on the triple give only about a 10 gear inch difference and about a 5 mph difference. Additionally, with a triple, the range is wider.
As for the 1x vs 3x, here’s a comparison of a 1x (32 by 11-34) and a common 3x. You can see that the 1x has a low high...you’ll spin out at a fairly low speed...and a fairly high low gear. If you go to a wider range cassette in the 1x, you can get a lower low but the high still suffers. Change to a larger chainring and the low suffers.
Here’s a comparison of a road compact double and a road triple. If you look at the shift pattern for the triple, you can see that the steps are smaller between the ranges. The compact double does require a double shift (or more) to maintain a similar cadence. If you go from the 18 tooth gear in the high range on the double to the 18 tooth gear in the low range, there is a 20 gear inch difference and a 10mph difference. The same shift on the triple give only about a 10 gear inch difference and about a 5 mph difference. Additionally, with a triple, the range is wider.
As for the 1x vs 3x, here’s a comparison of a 1x (32 by 11-34) and a common 3x. You can see that the 1x has a low high...you’ll spin out at a fairly low speed...and a fairly high low gear. If you go to a wider range cassette in the 1x, you can get a lower low but the high still suffers. Change to a larger chainring and the low suffers.
I find I can't pedal many more than 90-95 gear inches for any length of time on my commute so a 1x works great for me without ever having to reach for my lowest-gear. Most of my commute is spent on the 3rd to smallest and 4th to smallest cogs, which is probably the best outcome for my chainline as well.
#32
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In my opinion, 2x systems are about the dumbest thing to be put on bikes since U-brakes...and those were awful. 2x systems have the range but shifting them presents the kinds of problems that you detail...
I get that 2x is dumb for your riding, but for other people it is really required.
You can get the same range from 1x, but not with small gear jump and the tight quick shifts I get from small gear jumps - 1x doesn't do both.
#33
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I gotta call BS. I get that this might be true for you, but 2x is required for my riding. I need tight sharp shifts with my derailer, and small jumps between gears. I rarely shift the front chain ring, but when I need it, I need it. I typically run the small chaining for solo long distance rides, or the large chain ring for fast group rides. I've spent enough time changing cassettes and cogs on my track bike, that I don't need to bolt on a different chain ring for a different ride. Just ain't gonna do that.
I get that 2x is dumb for your riding, but for other people it is really required.
You can get the same range from 1x, but not with small gear jump and the tight quick shifts I get from small gear jumps - 1x doesn't do both.
I get that 2x is dumb for your riding, but for other people it is really required.
You can get the same range from 1x, but not with small gear jump and the tight quick shifts I get from small gear jumps - 1x doesn't do both.
I do like the added range on the bottom register but I also miss the tighter cluster of gears around the top and middle of the range for my commute so I totally get you.
#34
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I gotta call BS. I get that this might be true for you, but 2x is required for my riding. I need tight sharp shifts with my derailer, and small jumps between gears. I rarely shift the front chain ring, but when I need it, I need it. I typically run the small chaining for solo long distance rides, or the large chain ring for fast group rides. I've spent enough time changing cassettes and cogs on my track bike, that I don't need to bolt on a different chain ring for a different ride. Just ain't gonna do that.
I get that 2x is dumb for your riding, but for other people it is really required.
You can get the same range from 1x, but not with small gear jump and the tight quick shifts I get from small gear jumps - 1x doesn't do both.
I get that 2x is dumb for your riding, but for other people it is really required.
You can get the same range from 1x, but not with small gear jump and the tight quick shifts I get from small gear jumps - 1x doesn't do both.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
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Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
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Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#35
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@cyccomute you'd really hate my bike - it occurs to me it's both a 1x drivetrain with cantilever/U brakes LOL!
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@cyccomute you'd really hate my bike - it occurs to me it's both a 1x drivetrain with cantilever/U brakes LOL!
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
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Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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#38
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Cantilever brakes share some slight similarities with U brakes in that they are a center pull brake but that's about were the similarity ends. Your bike has cantilevers. I have 3 bikes with cantilevers and haven't got a problem with them. I've even mountain biked extensively with cantilevers and never found them to be particularly bad as stopping a mountain bike even on steep rough trails.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
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Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
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Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
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#39
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By "off road" I'm definitely not talking about full-on trails . Mainly gravel paths, really badly chipped up roads & sidewalks (daily), and woodland over tree roots and the like. I haven't ridden a real bike (non BSO) without front suspension, so I don't know how comfortable it is (I tried a BSO without front suspension and it was horrible - that bike ride ended within a matter of minutes).
A test ride is probably the easiest way for me to figure out whether I'd benefit from front susp or not
A test ride is probably the easiest way for me to figure out whether I'd benefit from front susp or not
#40
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I do catch flak from my triathalon buddy because they're "not aero" LOL
Last edited by davei1980; 10-12-19 at 09:53 AM.
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As a citizen of Riga, I can say only - true and nothing much changes.