Daily Commute

I'm looking at a Trail Tech 13w HID with Li-ion battery and a smart charger for $280 delivered. That's 5.5 hours (advertised) run time. Repair and replacement parts seem reasonable, especially when compared to the $100 each Cygolite wants to replace the lamp and/or ballast of the HID I bought from (a light that lasted less than a year and a half).

What's the catch? Was I just stupid to have bought a Cygolite? Are Niterider HID buyers similarly stupid?

Also, if you think it's a good light, would you recommend the 6 degree spot or 12 degree flood? I mainly do urban riding, with some early-morning MUP riding. I'm also concerned about visibility in low-light conditions, like rain.

Edit: Another light on the page is even less for what appears to be the same quality. What makes these lights so much less expensive? Just a lack of a promotion budget and LBS mark up?

Thanks!

Paul L.

I really love my 6 degree spot for fast road riding. This thing lets you descend like nobody's business. I have the 13 watt with the 400 ah battery. I made another 400 ah battery out of some other parts I ordered from them and saved a bit of money going that route. Anyway, between the two packs I have 9 hours of runtime which will be a beautiful thing on the 600k this weekend. I have found the 6 degree spot has enough sidespill to light signs and sides for what I need, if I was mountain biking it might be different but at 20+ I prefer the longer throw. These lights are awesome the cords are a little long and I ended up modifying mine a lot but they pretty are what they state.

JOHN J

I purchased a few battery packs and other stuff from them.

It looks like a major Manufacturer of batteries and the like based in China probably MEGA VOLUME.

more than likely the meat and potato sales come from the OEM market and third party label sales for batteries ,cables ... thus the stuff they sell on the website is super competitive and accounts for Coffee change business compared to its normal contracts but a sale is a sale is a sale

if the prices on these HID light were close to brand names They wouldnt sell any. they probably Make the HID light for use in many markets but offer it on the site as a bike light.
Nite rider ,cateye and the like their only business is the special stuff and not that much of it compared to a Large manufacturer so prices have to be Higher to cover their own costs of doing business.

though many times the specialized companies have nicer products IE: samller ,more features, Prettier... But you have to pay for them.

I usually find ways of using the Good but somewhat generic products that are often available for less money often much less than the ""Brand Names""

"John"

Daily Commute

Thanks for responses. I'm mainly concerned with visability to traffic, especially in low light (but not completely dark) conditions, as well as use on a completely dark MUP. I'm concerned about greater side visibility, meaning cars seeing me better when they are on a side street waiting to turn into or cross the road I'm on. Do you think the the 6 degree spot would work for that?

pinkrobe

I have the 12-degree flood, and it is amazingly bright. The previous posters' assessment of the situation is bang on, with regard to volume sales and such. That said, I am very pleased with my light. The side-spilling light is minimal on the 12-degree, and I imagine it is less on the spot. I have a tendency to turn my head and look directly at sidestreets at night. I keep looking at a vehicle until I am illuminated by their headlights, which varies considerably. You might want to get a small sideways-pointing LED for sidelighting. For illuminating what's in front of you, this HID system can't be beat when you consider the price. $239 + $8 S+H...

slvoid

Just wondering, if the performance is the same, would you rather have a corvette or a ferrari?

Paul L.

I rode next to a guy with a MOAB (either Light and Motion or Nightrider, can't remember maker) light and they were equal brightness. His battery was 3 times as heavy and lasted 3 times as long. Seems OK performance to me.

slvoid

Makes sense... 3 times bigger... 3 times longer... Not sure how you can remember the weight if you two were riding next to each other, perhaps you reached over?

pinkrobe

Well, given that the Trail Tech I got has a Li-ion battery with a 4.5 hour run time and weighs less compared to the Nite Rider, I'll stick with my Ferrari.

khuon

These lights look pretty nice for the price. I don't know if I'm too keen on the velcro mounting system given that I also use my lights for offroad riding and velcro tends to lose effectiveness when it gets dirty/muddy. I would probably end up trying to fabricate a more secure Q/R mounting system.

Daily Commute

Thanks for all your help. My questions have turned into a Total Geekiness question, so I've posted my next question there, post 1118 on page 45.

slvoid

Well given that my l&m has a much better beam pattern, better connectors, a universal charger, a better mounting system, and a head that swivels, I think I'll stick with that too.

In fact, looking at the weights too, the l&m standard light weighs 10 ounces, the NR flight weights the same as the trailtech system plus comes with a LED backup for visibility built in. And the 30day/1yr bulb/mechanical warranty from trailtech? NR is 1yr/lifetime.

I'm proud of my F100 camera too but I won't stick my head in the sand and say its better than the F5.

I don't disagree that the Trailtech is a good deal but not THAT good of a deal, especially considering I can get a much better light for a little bit more from L&M. Just try ebay. And the thing can be had for only $40-50 more than the trailtech system. An hour or two of your salary for something better? Yeah I'd go for that.

ItsJustMe

The light itself is fine. I guess the difference is, as slvoid says, quality of connectors and possibly mounting system. If you feel getting a bit better connectors is worth the extra money to you, go for it.
Personally I am not made of money so I got a bare fixture from them for $110 and wired it to my existing 12V system, so I have HID for pretty cheap. It has yet to cause me any trouble whatsoever after one full winter's riding.

I like a spot personally, but I haven't tried the flood, and it's bright enough that even a flood would probably light pretty far down the road. My spot has enough side scatter that I can still see fine close to the wheel.

But I suppose that in the future the connectors might crap out. If they do, it'll cost me about $3 and about 30 minutes to replace them since I used just standard rubber trailer connectors. Since those connectors seem to last years hanging down in the salt spray of a trailer hitch, I'm not holding my breath for them to die.

I was about to say that someone would soon come up with a cheap HID bundle suited for retail, but I don't think there's a ready market. LBSs are too wrapped up into selling high end stuff at a premium. Also the market is too segmented; they have weekend warriors buying high end stuff to ride 40 miles a week, then the unwashed masses who wouldn't buy an HID system even if it cost $50; they're going to go to Wal*Mart, and ride without lights. The only people looking for cheap HID are a VERY FEW (in comparison) commuters who are looking for functional stuff.

jeff-o

Do you pull this battery behind you in a trailer? j/k

pinkrobe

Actually, there's very little difference [functionally] between the handlebar mounts on the L+M and the TT. For helmet mount, I custom-fabbed my own mount out of an old Oakley goggle lens and some straps. It's low-profile, rock-solid and won't frag my helmet if/when I crash. The connectors on the TT are more than adequate for my purposes and I see no functional difference in the beam pattern. They're both freaking bright! Anything closer than 5' gets lit up, and I can see things 300' down the road.
I can't comment on the warranty, as I've never had to actually warranty any bike equipment. Usually, if I break something, it's not repairable. As to the weights, the battery on my TT is 10 oz. and the light itself weighs about 8 oz. That's heavier than either of the other two systems, but not enough for me to care. Plus it's polished aluminum. Mmmm. Shiny!

For me and my use of it, the TT represents an excellent value. What, do I have to get my ruler?

I'm in Canada - it's tougher to get these lights up here. Even going the e-bay route, I was looking at paying at least an extra $100-$200 more for a L+M. They are nice, but don't provide enough additional features, value or performance to justify the extra cost. I don't think I'll ever buy another Niterider product, as I can't stand their mounting system. Ick.

Paul L.

Well, fortunately the man who laid out the $500+ for his "Ferrari" knew how much his battery weighed. I don't deny the expensive lights are nice and worth it to some people but my system now has a 9 hour lifetime and It has set me back $300. It doesn't swivel that is true, but I don't need it to and prefer it not too since I ride a recumbent and a light that stays put is better for my purposes. If I wanted my system to run 12 hours like the $500 MOAB all I would need to do is spend $60 for another battery pack and I would have 13.5 hours and still be $150 dollars cheaper. Sure I wouldn't havve an LED, but I use an EL-500 as a failsafe light in case the HID has problems while I am cruising down the road and I would at least have SOME light if that ever happened in an emergeny. Anyway, it all depends on what kind of rider you are. If you like all the bells and whistles and don't like to tinker and don't mind spending a few extra bucks, go with a name brand. If you don't mind doing a little finagling yourself and need the cash and want a simple light, go with the trailtech.

For me personally none of the name brand lights are designed with recumbents in mind and so the battery bags and mounts often times are not what I want anyway, the trailtech is better in that area for me since I don't have to pay for all the extras which I will likely not use anyway.

Paul L.

Yeah but man that light lasts a year! (oops, should have put 4000 mah)

pharnabazos

Not sure if this still works but when I bought mine I used the coupon BATTERYSPACE for a 5% discount.

Paul L.

If that doesn't work try E7SEA

slvoid

Like I said, given the choice between a $280 trailtech and a $320 l&m off ebay, I don't think the decision is too hard to make unless I really really really needed that 40 bucks, its worth it for, IMO, the extra little features. Plus the sound of velcro scares me and shiny things distract me.

As for the NR. I saw their 'new' clamp once and it sucked. Good idea poorly executed and having to strike on the HID first before turning on the LED's is moronic.

ItsJustMe

Does that $320 L&M on ebay come from a dealer with a warranty, or is that just what they usually go for used?
Not sure where $280 comes from either. My TT was $110, and I ran it at first off a $15 SLA battery. I'm now using a $50 NiMH bottle battery, and their nice smart charger, so even that's only $210 or so with shipping.

That price is probably for their LiIon system or something. Wouldn't work for me since I use my lights quite often below zero F, where a LiIon would probably not work at all anyway.

khuon

Unless you want to resort to SLAs, Li-Ions have the best cold-weather peformance of any of the lightweight modern battery technologies today.

slvoid

Right... I wouldn't be so sure about that...

pinkrobe

I concur - Li-Ion performance tends to crap out with lower temperatures, such as -20C.

Paul L.

Lets see if we do apples to apples and oranges to oranges, it looks like most of the 13w lights on the L & M webpage have burn times of between 4 and 5 hours. I bought my 13w Trailtech for $238 with a battery that gives 4.5 hours burntime. If I subtract 238 from 320 I come up with $82. Still not a huge hurdle if you figure it as a few hours salary but still twice the $40 difference. Anyway, to each their own. If you go with the $110 light at trailtech you really do save a lot more.