Well, your "facts" aren't that hot either
I have actually had several (at least 5) bikes with internal gears. I haven't owned a Nexus 8 myself, but know several that does. 36% of the population in Copenhagen Denmark commute to work on bikes, and eg. one of the bridges I use is crossed by more than 65.000 cyclist a day (even counted in rainy and cold October), and since the majority of bikes sold here in Denmark have internal gears, it is easy to gain some fairly direct knowledge on how a hub like Nexus 8 performes if one ask enough people.
As I wrote, many people are happy with their Shimano Nexus 8 hub, especially those who doesn't ride that many miles per day, or have several bikes (spreads the load). Some high milage commuters, like my colleague, hasn't been that impressed with their quality.
Of course, this is "just" opinions, but what else do you expect on a web board? Scientific reports?

Regarding internal hubs in generel, then it is just a basic scientific fact that they never will be as effective as derailleurs, there will always be some drag.
It is not a scientific fact that internal gear hubs weigh and cost more, than comparable priced derailleur systems, though I am convinced that it is so. A Shimano Ultegra hub+105 derailleur+Tiagra cassette (you probably want 9 speed) will probably be cheaper than a Nexus 8. (the actual pricing is left as an exercise for the reader).

I think it is pretty straightforward that internal gear hubs are inferior to derailleur systems in most (all?) aspects. Some people seem to think that internal gear hubs are maintenance free, but I really think that that's only a myth. If you clock a lot of bad weather miles on an internal gear hub, you better service it once in a while, or risk destroying it.

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Regards

Couple of really key words here like commute, majority of bikes, internal gears, and rainy and cold. Looks like the commuters that you speak of have voiced their opinion also. They voice with their pocketbook. They had a choice between what type of drive system fit their cycling needs and they bought internal gears. Cheers

I have a 5 speed Brompton which I use quite a bit. Needs same cleaning as derailleur and is more difficult to clean. What is at issue here is whether the Nexus is fit for the purpose for which it is sold. It is supposed to be a low maintenance hub for commuting cycling which should last years, based on the price of it. This does not appear to be the case. It has proved to be very difficult to get any real information on these hubs from English speaking forums. The lbs which sell them have very limited info, do not understand how the roller brakes work etc.
They are not cheap and the only reason one looks to buy one is low maintenance cycling, they are not for racing, off road etc. We are entitled to reasonable information about them.

Double up on the keying of the words "internal gears." Interested keeps drifting back and forth between describing the problems (with which he has NO experience) of the Nexus 8 and the problems that he (almost) alone in his country seems to have with the concept of "inefficiency" of internal gears. The significance of this so-called "inefficiency" or extra few grams/ounces of weight appears only to matter to someone obsessed with cycling theory or in a constant racing competition mode, rather than practical day to day cycling in the real world.

I have no experience with roller brakes so will not comment on them but as far as 3, 5, and 7 speed internal gear hubs with coaster brakes or no internal brake, Shimano, Sachs/SRAM and S-A; I can affirm that maintenance IS almost zero for years at a time. My current commuter with a Sachs 7 speed coaster brake hubs has served me well for almost 4 years through all weather and road conditions; no problems; approximately 20,000 miles. My three speeds have gone decades with no maintenance.

If the subject is strictly Nexus 8, interested would be wise to post what he actually knows about the specific subject rather than ranting about his aversion to the theoretical "inefficiencies" of "heavy" internal gear hubs for commuting bikes.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/seven_speed.html Sheldon Brown's site has some info on internal hubs.

Enjoy!

Keep Cycling!

Derailer systems are open to the elements--I like the Model T analogy. That means that these steel parts get wet. They get dirty. Because of that, they need regular cleaning and adjustment (unless you don't care about missing some gears or skipping gears when you shift).

Further testimony--go check out well ridden derailer bikes of school kids. See if they operate well. Half of them don't even use the derailer. I have three teanagers--two with derailers. One can't even operate it, they other doesn't try. His chain fell off once.

So, it is disingenous to say they require very little maintenance. They also are more difficult to operate as you must make certain by looking that the chain has shifted. You have to regulate your speed, look, hold the shifter for the right time, and proceed. Also you have two shifters, going in different directions. The one operating the big cog is a challenge to shift for some.

On the other hand, the internal gear hub is a simple shifter with nothing to look at (no chain to see engaging) that comes with a chain guard to keep your chain clean, is reliable, and needs no adjustments. I'm sure it needs some maintenance, but I haven't done any yet.

While it is obvious that Interested far prefers the derailer and sees no benefit to the internal gear hub, I see the exact opposite conclusion!

Keep on cycling,

Dave

Other key words are: low milage, low speed, fair weather cyclists. And internal gears works fine for such conditions.
I really don't think that internal gear hubs like the Nexus, or Spectro S7 are the best choice for high milage, all weather commuting, which was what the original top poster asked about, especially compared to the rather good derailleur systems and hubs one can get for the same price.
Popularity doesn't mean that they good choice; a lot of people (young men) buys MTB's with knobbled mud tires for riding around in the city; hardly the best choice.
I really think that people are buying into a myth regarding the perceived low maintenance of internal gear hubs; they need maintenance too, like any other moving bicycle part. Don't believe me, then ask your LBS about recommended service intervals of your internal gear hub of choice.

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Regards

I won't t say I think you are lying, just agenda driven and misinformed. I would recommend asking the people who own such bikes and use them; not dealer's self serving recommendations. Do you also shampoo your hair, rinse and then Repeat because the directions recommend such a wasteful practice. Perhaps you wash and wipe down your bike after every ride too. I'm sure some anally retentive mechanic might recommend it.

I own three Sachs/SRAM Specro 7 equipped bikes. I commute on one as I previously posted. One daughter commutes daily in Chicago on hers, the other daughter uses hers for getting around Philadelphia where she goes to school. Our take on your "maintenance and efficiency rants?" Baloney!

I like the model T analogy as well; the Ford T enjoyed a well deserved reputation for being incredible tough, easily maintainend, cheap and long lasting (just like derailleurs ), unlike its now forgotten fragile, expensive, overcomplicated, high maintenance competitors.

You show several basic misunderstandings here;
All those problems about shifting problems are caused by cheap cable housings and cheap shifters; they are totally independent of gearing systems. All indexing are placed in the shifters, and not in the derailleur, nor inside the internal gear hub.
So internal gear hub systems needs cable adjustments too, or they shift badly, no advantage there.

And lets discuss rear derailleur maintenance; this almost mythical difficult job requiring arcane knowledge and skill, and that turns people into using internal gear hubs. Lets look in the Shimano service manual an see what complicated procedures we must follow; Oh here it is;
Squirt some lube on the pulley wheels, and some oil on the joints where the derailleur moves. Clean with a rag afterward.
That's it! That is all the maintenance a rear derailleur needs.

Steel? Rust? If you compare $5 cheap, stamped derailleurs with $150-200 internal gear hubs then perhaps. I don't recall to ever have seen a derailleur of even moderate quality that was destroyed by rust, even though the chain was rusted to a solid mass. The reason is of course, that there few parts on a >$20 derailleur that can actually rust; the pulley wheels are made of plastic, the cage of aluminium and the springs of stainless steel. Some derailleurs on abandonend bikes may appear to be rusty, but this is just rust from the chain that migrated unto the derailleur. Just try to scrape the rust of, and you will see.

(Just took an inspection round in our street, checking out old bikes with rear derailleurs (down tube shifters, Shimano Exage EX stuff). They were all dirty but scraping on the derailleur housing quickly revealed nice and shiny aluminium underneath even though the stuff must be more than a decade old.)

What you say is, that cheap, unmaintained Wallmart bikes often are broken an unrideable. I agree. However, if these kids were given decent bikes with derailleur systems in the same price range as an internal gear hubs like SRAM S7, or Shimano Nexus, you wouldn't see these problems. Besides, please do your kids a favor and foot the bill for their bicycle maintenance. Give them the feeling that it is nice to ride a bike.

You can't be serious; looking down your chain to see if it has shifted? No one needs to do that, even with downtube shifter technology from 15 years ago.
Difficult to operate a shifter? Again, you can't be serious; brifters and trigger-shifters are both very simple to operate; you just click and shift. A rear sprocket shift is usually done in a 1/4-1/3 pedalarm revolution in high speed.
Anyway, SRAM makes grip-shifters for rear derailleurs too, so no advantage for internal gear hubs here.

Do yourself a big favor; arrange a testride on a modern city-bike like a Specialized Sirrus. Pedal fast, and enjoy the crisp and incredible fast shifting, even in high speed.

{snip]
I hope I have demonstrated that your conclusion are based on false premises.

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Regards

Hey Motorhommmor-Whats up? In your other thread https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/186198-help-sirrus-singulator-hub-conversion.html you ask for advice on singulater and gear hub info because you are tired of replacing chains and derailleurs in your welcome to Ireland wet weather. You were given tips and honest info by none agenda driven people. You wanted more info on nexus 8 hubs so you started this thread. Again you were given honest helpful info. Now you say you have a gearhub bike already and know what to expect with it as far as maintenence goes. Begining to sound like you don't like derailleurs or gearhubs. You say your local LBS knows nothing about nexus 8? it is an updated and improved nexus7 which has been around for many years. You say your local LBS knows nothing about rollerbrakes? Your local LBS must have been hiding under a rock for the last 50 years. Maybe they came out a couple of times and went over to Copenhagen and indulged in some drugs which obviously all went bad. Find a new LBS dude. Internal gearhubs are extremely common in your market and have been for many years. So have rollerbrakes. Ask people on the streets who have used them for a long time. Decide you don't like gearhubs. Not a problem with me. Just keep replacing chains and other parts as you have already been doing. As I said in your other thread a chain guard and fenders will do wonders in prolonging the life of your drivetrain components. Good luck in your quest.

Hey Interested-What you have demonstrated is that by your own admission internal gears are more popular with commuters in your area. Even though they are in the majority you feel they made the wrong choice and that you are the correct one and they are incapable of making a sound decision. Don't know if you noticed but you are in the Commuting forum. Might try the road forum for a more favorable veiw of derailleurs. Cheers.

My all-steel Surly,with older Nexus-7 and roller brake,weighs about 28-29lbs. That's about average hybrid weight,and less than alot of MTB's. It doesn't feel heavy to me at all. My Milano is maybe a pound heavier,and rides like a rigid MTB,even though it looks like a cruiser. They're both extremely fun to ride. If I'm moving along at a good clip,and am going to get caught at a light,I don't have to do the brake-pedal/downshift-brake dance derailler riders need to do. I just stop,then click the shifter down a notch or two. And I never get caught on a hill in too high of a gear.


I dare say a Nexus shifts better. I bet even with that fancy derailler setup you can still hear/feel some gnashing from the chain moving on the cogs. Most of the time with my Nexus hubs,the only way I can tell I've shifted is it becomes harder/easier to pedal(depending on whether I up/down shifted).

Good luck in your quest.[/QUOTE]

Serviced the rear hub on my ultegra wheels last night, new bearings, oiled the freehub, came to the conclusion that its not so bad after all. Every now and then you examine how you are doing things, seek other opinions and then make a decision.
You mentioned LBS info, the MAIN high end bike shop here in Dublin told me that I could not put a hub into my Sirrus, yet you were able to tell me that I could. This is the benefit of these types of forums. Having learned I could put in a hub, I then wanted to see how reliable the Nexus would be. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. It is an expensive piece of kit which is for a specific function, it is as far as I can see now unproven technology. I have a Brompton for 6 years, proven technology, when you buy one of these things it does exactly what is says - you know what you get.

I have decided that I am more on the lines of Interested. For a high mileage commuter, which is what I am, out in weather, then the derailleur along with a good set of hubs is the most optimum machine. Easy to service, clean, and the chain replacement etc. is part of the cost of commuting.

Thank you and everyone else for all the info posted. This is the whole idea of these forums. If you look through my posts you will clearly see that I have in turn posted info to new commers here based on what I in turn learned. The late Sydney was tremendous in helping me learn how to strip the bike down completely.

I make no apology for enquiring how reliable things are before I spend my money on something like a hub bike. The Brompton is a very clearly proven piece of technology. There is a seperate Brompton forum and you will find incredible stories about how the factory have helped people get sorted with repairs etc.

Anyway let hope that Shimano do in fact eliminate the problems around the NExus and give us a hub gear we can relay on.

Yes, but among high milage, high speed, all weather commuters, derailleurs are a majority. (based among other things, on observing the rear wheel of the many commuters that pass me in the morning )
I never claimed that internal gear hubs didn't work, or is a wrong choice for low milage commuting, or those that only uses their bike infrequently.

Their choice may be OK for their use, or maybe not. I don't claim to know what is best for others, what ever rocks your boat is fine by me.
What I do claim however is, that a lot of internal gear hub proponents seems to make their choice on very ill informed premises (taken from this thread).
1. One tries to argues, that heavy hubs are an advantage.
2. Several claims that index /gear shifting problems are worse with derailleurs, they are not; both systems are subject to the same index /shifting problems, since the indexing are in the shifter, not in the gear system.
3. A lot of people seems to think that rear derailleur maintenance is something difficult; all this maintenance consist of is some lube on the pulley wheels, and the joints of the derailleur arm, perhaps a couple of times a year. There is nothing to it.
4. Another thinks that it is necessary to watch your chain while shifting with a derailleur, or think that derailleur shifters are difficult to operate (they are not)
5. A lot of people seem to base their derailleur experience on incredible cheap $5 stamped derailleurs on shoddy old bikes, with dodgy thumb shifters and noodle cables. Hardly fair to compare that to a $200 gear hub. People really don't seem to say; "I tried a Shimano Ultegra hub with a 105 derailleur and a SRAM PG cassete (total price roughly same price as a Nexus 8 hub) but preferred the shifting action/rolling resistance/etc of my internal gears."
6. Everybody seems to thinks that internal gear hubs are some magical devices, that never needs grease repacking or bearing replacements. This is just a myth.

One hardly makes sound decisions based on these misunderstandings.

Well, I know I am in the commuter forum, and a lot of commuters like me uses derailleurs. I am not angling for a favorable veiw of derailleurs, I allready know that they are a good idea. I much prefer a civilized discussion with those that disagree

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Regards

Wonder if those people you see are like the near mythical Experienced, High Mileage Road Cyclists™ of the US Sun Belt cities and suburbs who think they know better than everybody else what Real Cyclists should do?

Seriously. I only spent one day in Denmark so obviously I won't speak of what you see. I had thought the Danish commuting, city cycling environment was supposed to be like other Northern European cities, especially the Netherlands. I have 10 years experience in Germany and the Netherlands. I seldom saw anyone ride a derailleur bike in Germany except on the weekend; and NEVER saw a derailleur bike used in the Netherlands on a weekday.

Who are these high mileage, high speed, all weather commuters of Copenhagen? Are you saying all those hordes of your countryman who cycle commute do not do so in all weather? Only the derailler boys do? That wouldn't even be true in the derailleur kingdom of the US, where there is little evidence that the Experienced, High Mileage Road Cyclists™ soil their pretty derailler bikes with commuting chores, especially in wet or cold weather.

Well, I too ride city traffic, but don't find my derailleur a problem, since I can downshift 3 gears at a time with a single thumb action. If I get caught stopped while in a high gear, I just downshift and moves forward while holding the brakes. This lift the tail above ground. I then kick the pedal a whole revolution, and then I am in low gear. Sounds complicated, but really is an easy 7 second routine.

I totally agree with you, that whats really important about bikes is that they are fun to ride, even though we all have different priorities on what makes fun bikes.

My shifts are totally silent besides the soft click my shifter makes, even when shifting 3 rear sprockets at a time, even in high speed. Even the slightest teeth gnashing is an adjustment problem (usually solved with a quarter turn counter-clockwise on the adjuster barrel). I suspect that all modern, correctly installed, quality gear systems are totally silent like mine, and that they likely very rarely needs cable adjustment, be they from SRAM, Shimano, or Campagnolo.

Just FYI, my shifters are Shimano R-440-9's and the rear derailleur are the old 9 speed Shimano 105 derailleur. Nothing fancy about that. I do tend use fancy chains like SRAM PC-991, but I really don't think that they shifts better on my setup, than a lowly Shimano HG-70.

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Regards

Where are you pricing the internal hub bikes? At that same LBS where you are getting your maintenance recommendations?
Last Sachs/SRAM Spectro 7 fully equipped bike I bought in Germany was in 2002. Cost about €500 complete (about $450 at the time). Zero Seven Girls Bike is pictured below.

Also bought two years previously my current commuter Sachs/SRAM Spectro 7 fully equipped Raggazzi bike for DM 268 (about $135) at the time. The price was so cheap that I bought a matching girl's model for the same price. That is the bike my daughter now uses in Philadelphia.

My experience in Europe has been that the internally geared commuter bikes were almost always cheaper than a "flashy" lightweight bike which may or may not be equipped for commuting. This was also true back in the US when Raleigh, Schwinn and others regularly sold 3 speed bikes with fenders and chainguard cheaper than any 10 speed offered at the time (early to mid 70's). The marketers solution was to remove those inexpensive bikes from the product mix.

I like the discussions in this thread--it seems at least that it might cause people to think twice before *switching* their drivetrain at expense and trouble simply for the alleged benefits of internal gearing for commuting. Even the retrogrouches can appreciate that kind of posing.

I looked up some weights and prices for rough comparison. Feel free to point out weaknesses here. I used Deore XT components since they're all still available in 8 speed. Most prices off nashbar or airbomb.com.

Internal: Premium SG-8R25 $199.99 1550 g


Derailleur: Shimano deore XT 8sp cassette 39.99 256g
Shimano deore XT RD 54.99 255g
Shimano deore XT rear hub 59.99 432g
Weight difference for 20% less chain= 334g/5= 66.8g
total=986.8g

Price: $154.97

PS I might add that I have sheared a (nice XT) derailleur in my spokes cranking uphill during the winter commute.

how about the The Sturmey-Archer AW 3-speed hub? I had this ideal that i could buy on old schwin with one of these hubs and rebuild the hub with a nicer rim and put it on a lightweight roadbike frame. Perhaps this would be alittle more work then you'd like but it seems like from everything i've heard Sturmey-Archer hubs are good quality and long lasting and I belive they still build bikes with them or perhaps you could find one of those dreamy english roadsters that has one and use that as a commuter. just and ideal i guess i have a big heart for old bikes. personaly I like the derailer and find it enjoyable to keep it well functioning.

I really don't think so. (well, except that I of course never met a roadie who didn't think a road bike was the only thing to ride, but thats just like asking the Pope if he likes to be a Catholic, - an obvious answer ensues.).

Definitely not like the Netherlands if Amsterdam is anyhing to go by (except that lots of people uses bikes). Been some years since I was there last though. I must admit that I have never given the subject a single thought when in Germany.

Let me try to explain; A lot of people here in Copenhagen commutes all year, however, as the weather becomes worse during fall, more people start to use public transportation. (fair weather cyclists. Nothing wrong with that). "Serious" commuters of course tries to slog it through the winter. (I am one the wimps, I take the bus when snow and ice makes the road slippery). It is just that a most of the fair weather cyclist tends to be internal gear hub users, so when they get off the road, the relative share of derailleur riders seems to rise.
Among those who commute all year, and commute long distances, the tendency to use derailleurs rises dramatically, if nothing else, then because road bikes are a common choice, and because derailleurs gives a wider range of gears, enabling one to ride very fast.
I hope this explains better what I meant. The above is just based on my own observations, people I know, web boards I frequent etc, but I honestly believe it to resemble some kind of true, though generalized picture of how commuting is done in my home city of Copenhagen.

The roadies I know here in Denmark really don't mind the rain or the cold when it comes to their equipment, road salt however really scares them, since salt corrodes their precious Dura-Ace and Record parts, and worse; their high end wheels. So everybody has a winter beater road bike. If they do group rides, then they have full fenders and mudflaps on (made by old water bottles).
I guy I knew even summer commuted on his very high end (+$7.000) Colnago; 20 miles everyday in 20 years, He was plus 50 years old, but was the fittest man I have ever known.

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Regards

I've been following this thread, never responded because the OP inquired about long term durability and since I've only had the Nexus 8 for two months now I can't comment on that yet. Nor the riding in anger part. Anyway the derailer vs internal hubs debate has me intrigued. And I won't know where I stand untill I've had mine for at least a year.

With derailer systems I have a real problem with rusting on the front derailer, especially the clamp to the seat tube and the spring. It's where sweat from my face tends to drip on. The spring is not shielded enough to prevent getting wet, but just enough to prevent me from giving it a good cleaning.

Also I compared the gear range of my Nexus 8 hub with that of a hypothetical 8 speed rear derailer (based on my old hybrid's cassette). The Nexus's gear inch range is greater so one may have to figure a front derailer, extra crank ring and shifter into the comparison. But then once you add the FD set up, it's range is greater making an apples to apples comparison difficult.

Unlike man's free will vs determinism debate, which becomes moot with marriage, the derailer vs internal hub debate goes on.

I have a derailleur bike, a nice old Romic sport tourer from the '80s, and a Whitworth Rudge 3 speed updated to 700c wheels. I've ridden the Rudge year round for about 10 years averaging about 10 miles a day every work day, I just bought the Romic to replace the Rudge as my commuter. The Romic has an old campy 6 speed friction shift setup with an older DeoreXT RD and it shifts beautifuly, I could see it being a great bike for longer distance riding. The Rudge setup is so much better for my daily commute that I have switched back to riding it after only a few months on the Romic. I have never had to service the transmission on the Rudge at all, it has been absolutely bulletproof! I estimate it has endured about 20,000 miles of all season urban commuting since I got it, and who knows how many miles it got ridden since 1957.

I also had an SRAM Spectro7 with a drum brake on another commuter bike and it needed more attention than the Sturmey Archer hub needs. I had to shorten the shifter cable and the funny way that the cable terminates in the clickbox made it hard to install right, I think they improved the clickbox since then. They never could send me the right brake cable hardware so I had to make that up myself, making it difficult to remove and reinstall the cable during tube changes.

I think I will eventualy build a lightweight commuter that has a 3 to 5 speed internal and geer it so that I ride in the center geer most of the time, that way it will be most efficient. A bike like this is the middle ground between a single/fixed geer bike and sport touring/hybrid.

Matt

I think one cost advantage to an internal gear hub is that when your chain and/or steel sprocket are worn out, replacing them is all of $20 or so. This is likely going to happen less often than you'll need to replace an 8 or 9 speed chain and a whole cluster or a few gears out of the middle of it.

The other cost issue is that in terms of shifting smoothness, etc, the comparison has been made with a brifter system. Well, you're looking at considerably more money to brift than to be internally geared, and you have to have a front derailer to match the gearing range of the hub - that doesn't make the weight a wash, but it's close. (maybe there are 11-34 cassettes, I suppose, but I'd personally feel wary about parking an uber long cage derailer where it might get kicked)

The way I see it, it costs about $225 bike-store retail to have a 8-speed hub and shifter. Decent rear hub + 8-speedcassette/chain + rear derailer + friction shifter is cheaper, but if you go to 9-speed bar-ends and a front derailer and the extra money for double or triple crank over a single you're probably spending about the same money. I would furthermore guess that with low-end brifters the increment in cost is approaching twice as much.

Just this weekend I'm building up a Karate Monkey with an 8-speed hub. We'll see how it goes! If I like the bike I might make it my late fall commuter.

A few opinions on this board vs. 65,000 riders who need to get to work reliably. Enough said. I'll go with what works in daily life, which is why I have a Nexus 8 and am trying to destroy it since I was a skeptic.

Don't forget the premium red band version has improved needle bearings in addition to losing 10 oz's.

I don't own Campy or Dura Ace so I won't comment on their reliability.

The point is, that a nice percentage of these people uses a derailleur, and they get to work just as reliable. Somehow people with internal gear hubs seems to think that such a hub is more reliable than a derailleur, but a derailleur is a very, very simple mechanical device, basically consisting of a movable "arm" with a joint, two pulley wheels and a spring. A 8 gear internal gear hub is a complex mechanical device with lots of moving parts, all having to be placed inside a confined space, together with the normal hub parts (bearings and axle).

How many million times do you think one can pull the cable before the spring breaks on a quality derailleur? And remember, that the beefy spring in a derailleur has a smaller (weaker?) counterpart inside the internal gear performing the exact same function. I see many people commute with old Shimano Exage derailleurs (10-15 years old?) without any problems.

Pulley wheels. They wear out of course, just like any other moving part, and just like the the moving parts inside a internal hub gear.

Look, I am not saying that internal gear hubs are bad, because they are not. But it is a myth that they don't need maintenance, and it is a myth that derailleurs are more unreliable or demand more maintenance.

In fact, I think it is very plain that internal gear hubs are inferior to derailleurs in a lot of ways; lower price, lower weight, lower friction, can use QR's, wider selection of gear ratios, more gears available, a wider selection of gearshifters; down-tube, trigger-shifters (thumbs only, or thumbs-and-finger), bar-end shifters, grip-shifts, and brifters.

I really do think that a Shimano Ultegra+105 hub and derailleur has better durability and lower maintenance, than SRAM S7 or an Nexus 8. Even if people disagree, they will have a really hard time convincing anybody that their durability should be any worse than an internal gear hub in same price league.

I do think, that internal gear hub proponents have a hard time time to mention many significant advantages over the derailleur. Note, I am not saying people buying internal gear hubs have made a bad decision, or that they are bad (hubs or people), just that people would be better off if they had a more realistic and balanced view of then real advantages and disadvantages of each gear system.

I am sure that the Nexus 8 is a fine piece of engineering, is nice to ride, and very important; is something that you like. If you like it, then it is probably a good decision for you. Personally I commend you for actually spending some money on a important bikepart, since I think that people too often skimp on price and quality. And if you maintain it when needed, then it will probably give you good service for years, and years. But if people ask me; is this the right hub for high milage all weather commuting, then I would have to say no, and that better alternatives exists.

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Regards