Self Defense?
10-17-06 | 08:46 PM
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
ME? I never ride, walk or go anywhere in fear. Why?
I always travel with my best buddies, Smith & Wesson!
A Glazer loaded 629 in a Bianchi quick-draw shoulder holster.
And as Dirty Harry says; "I hit what I'm shootin' at!"
I guess the sticker on my bike sums it up pretty well;
"This bike is NOT worth your life!"
I always travel with my best buddies, Smith & Wesson!
A Glazer loaded 629 in a Bianchi quick-draw shoulder holster.
And as Dirty Harry says; "I hit what I'm shootin' at!"
I guess the sticker on my bike sums it up pretty well;
"This bike is NOT worth your life!"
10-17-06 | 09:04 PM
#52
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Toronto
Bikes: Miyata 600, Marin Larkspur, Marin Muirwoods, GT tequesta, Fuji Ace
hmm,
If I am confronting a wild animal (dog or cat) I put the bike between me and the carnivore. Of course, the only time I've put this into practise it was a king charles cavalier
.
If it was a human, I would probably just run them down and hope I made it out okay. I figure if someone's head impacts with yours at 30+ km/h you're going to have at least a headache if not die.
Otherwise, I haven't really thought it through. Maybe I'll figure it out over the next twenty-five years of riding. Maybe I'll use the information by the time I'm 75....
Seriously, over 25 years of cycling thousands of miles it's never come up through city, suburb, or remote country roads. If I need to defend myself I really don't have the training or inclination to act. I'm just going to hope for the best. (I figure I have over a 50-50 chance of dying of old age or something else first).
Man, I really hope I haven't jinxed myself now..
If I am confronting a wild animal (dog or cat) I put the bike between me and the carnivore. Of course, the only time I've put this into practise it was a king charles cavalier
.If it was a human, I would probably just run them down and hope I made it out okay. I figure if someone's head impacts with yours at 30+ km/h you're going to have at least a headache if not die.
Otherwise, I haven't really thought it through. Maybe I'll figure it out over the next twenty-five years of riding. Maybe I'll use the information by the time I'm 75....
Seriously, over 25 years of cycling thousands of miles it's never come up through city, suburb, or remote country roads. If I need to defend myself I really don't have the training or inclination to act. I'm just going to hope for the best. (I figure I have over a 50-50 chance of dying of old age or something else first).
Man, I really hope I haven't jinxed myself now..
10-17-06 | 09:44 PM
#53
Infamous Member
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Originally Posted by FlatFender
As far as the wannabe Rambo quote, I will tell you that I take a lot of pride in being a Responsible gun owner. I own more gun locks than I do guns. My guns are locked with a trigger lock, inside a locked steel cabinet. Ammo is locked in another case in another room. I carry my gun for my job, along w/ OC spray, a collapsible baton, and 2 pairs of handcuffs.
'Shoot to kill' for the trained combat shooter means a single shot right between the running lights. For the rest of us, shooting to kill means aiming for the biggest target - the torso, usually doing more pointing than aiming. The torso is harder to miss and gives you the best odds of not only hitting, but also stopping your target. Killing is not the main consideration, stopping is. Nobody in their right mind "wants" to take someone's life. That said...'shoot to kill' also relates to mindset - if you are going to pull that thing, you best be willing to kill. You gotta have that mindset, as much as possible, before you ever have to test your resolve. Internal moral debates in the middle of a fight will just get you killed.
Sorry, but I see way too many folks who take this stuff too lightly, talking a big game without having the experience to back it up. (I think you'll find that most who have actually had to use their firearm to take a life ain't running around bragging about it), hence my rambo comment.
IMO part of responsible firearm ownership (and carry!) involves more than just safety, it involves the dedication to be proficient in the use of the deadly tool. Sadly, most citizens and even police officers don't get enough training time or enough of the right kind of training to really be effective in the use of a firearm for self-defense - reducing their odds of survival when forced to use it.
Someone else already hit upon the legal ramifications...but when it's your butt on the line, what the law is gonna think isn't as important as staying alive to face the judge.
I apologize for not having much of my usual humor on this subject...my own experiences have been far from humorous.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
10-17-06 | 10:07 PM
#54
Tortoise Wins by a Hare!
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From: Looney Tunes, IL
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Carrying any weapon is too much trouble for me. The storage hassles and weight, the fact that I'd have to worry about it being stolen or possibly used against me, plus the whole legality and liability issue just makes it too impractical on the off chance I might need it.
Staying alert and looking confident will lessen the chance of you becoming a target. Thugs prefer to hit easy targets, or people they can catch off guard. Even so, that doesn't mean anyone can't still be jacked. Sure, run if you can, but everyone should take self defense classes to help put the odds in their favor if forced into a fight situation. Make sure you are learning "street" techniques, not just sport fighting, which is what many martial arts today mostly are.
If you decide you are going to fight, DO NOT GIVE ANY INDICATION OF THIS FACT BEFORE YOU STRIKE! No yelling, arguing or acting the tough guy. You want surprise to be on your side. The bad guys should be led to believe everything is going their way until they have already been kicked, hit, gouged or taken out however you can. If there is more than one, prevent yourself from being in between them. Continue to follow up with techniques until the threat has been eliminated, and then SCRAM. Don't stick around. Even if you want to report the incident to the police, you can do it afterwords on your own.
Staying alert and looking confident will lessen the chance of you becoming a target. Thugs prefer to hit easy targets, or people they can catch off guard. Even so, that doesn't mean anyone can't still be jacked. Sure, run if you can, but everyone should take self defense classes to help put the odds in their favor if forced into a fight situation. Make sure you are learning "street" techniques, not just sport fighting, which is what many martial arts today mostly are.
If you decide you are going to fight, DO NOT GIVE ANY INDICATION OF THIS FACT BEFORE YOU STRIKE! No yelling, arguing or acting the tough guy. You want surprise to be on your side. The bad guys should be led to believe everything is going their way until they have already been kicked, hit, gouged or taken out however you can. If there is more than one, prevent yourself from being in between them. Continue to follow up with techniques until the threat has been eliminated, and then SCRAM. Don't stick around. Even if you want to report the incident to the police, you can do it afterwords on your own.
10-17-06 | 10:12 PM
#55
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Running/riding away as fast as possible is the best option. I usually carry a bowie knife (exposed of course to be legal and to deter the baddies), a telescopic steel baton, and my favorite refillable air pressurized aerosol bottle (very compact, fits in your shirt pocket, and has a decent range of 10-15 feet) or high volume/pressure trigger sprayer filled with ammonia. That will stop most people and dogs in their tracks from chasing you any further. Ammonia and its fumes (ammonia turns in a gas quite quickly) is an irritant if any gets into the eyes (temporary blindness), nose (causes shortness of breath), or mouth (burns the mouth and throat tissues) and it's considered non-lethal plus its cheap to buy.
That being said, I never had to use any of them (yet) for self defence.
Bear Repellent or Dog Repellent (the sprays) are popular deterrent devices.
Stun guns, Stun Batons, or Air Tasers is another option if local ordinances allow them. Some stun guns are made to look like cell phones now. I'm thinking about getting a stun baton to replace my steel baton...might as well shock the mess out of them if you have to get into a down and dirty fight.
As far as pepper spray, some states require attending/passing firearms classes and a waiting period after purchase before one can pickup and use pepper spray legally.
BUT if the baddies are armed, not many choices and you can't outrun or dodge bullets for long. It depends on the laws of your state/country if you can carry a concealed or visible weapon (gun) or are able to obtain a permit from your local law enforcement agency.
That being said, I never had to use any of them (yet) for self defence.
Bear Repellent or Dog Repellent (the sprays) are popular deterrent devices.
Stun guns, Stun Batons, or Air Tasers is another option if local ordinances allow them. Some stun guns are made to look like cell phones now. I'm thinking about getting a stun baton to replace my steel baton...might as well shock the mess out of them if you have to get into a down and dirty fight.
As far as pepper spray, some states require attending/passing firearms classes and a waiting period after purchase before one can pickup and use pepper spray legally.
BUT if the baddies are armed, not many choices and you can't outrun or dodge bullets for long. It depends on the laws of your state/country if you can carry a concealed or visible weapon (gun) or are able to obtain a permit from your local law enforcement agency.
10-17-06 | 10:26 PM
#56
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From: St.Louis Missouri
Bikes: Shimano & Dyno
Originally Posted by banerjek
I carry tools so that if someone bugs me, I can remove the cranks and BB and throw that at them like a boomerang. If that fails, I remove the tires from the rims and toss the wheels so the sharp spinning metal can decapitate them. I'd like to claim credit for that idea, but Goldfinger's henchman, Odd Job, came up with it first.
Sometimes I don't feel like taking my bike apart and putting it back together on the road, so I just be aware of my surroundings. I keep scanning ahead as well as behind (in my mirrors) for potential threats. Curiously enough, this method also protects you from being run over by cars that don't see you. Also, it lets you mentally prepare yourself when you see a vehicle likely to harass you approaching from the rear -- if you know you're about to be buzzed, you don't get surprised and angry when it happens.
Sometimes I don't feel like taking my bike apart and putting it back together on the road, so I just be aware of my surroundings. I keep scanning ahead as well as behind (in my mirrors) for potential threats. Curiously enough, this method also protects you from being run over by cars that don't see you. Also, it lets you mentally prepare yourself when you see a vehicle likely to harass you approaching from the rear -- if you know you're about to be buzzed, you don't get surprised and angry when it happens.
As for all of these intelligent answers of being aware of your surroundings & not worrying about protection doesn't make much sense to me as a commuter, & most of the people in this specific forum. We usually take the same route everyday/night. If someone were to mug a bicyclist(me) in a suburban city, they would pick a sucluded area and probably do it on my way home(it being at night). It's hard to see most areas no matter how many bike/helmet lights, mirrors, or the common sense of relying on your keen peripherals.
I'm not saying carry a firearm, in most scenarios especially being a bicyclist it'd be impossible to get to it and utilize it. You'd have to be prepared to shoot w/ a quick reaction. Most would prefer being the victim subconciosly.
10-18-06 | 04:27 AM
#57
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Chicago
I laugh at the posts regarding carrying firearms... Don't get me wrong I'm a gunowner.... but please... I commute through the nations murder capitol (Chicago), highest in number, we even beat NYC, which has 3x the population.... I'm not bragging....
Never had any problems...... Knocking on wood....
I ride through some "bad" areas... My safety technique... I ride a bike... generally people will think you are crazy for riding and leave you alone... especially the 8 months of the year that it's crappy here.... that and if I sense a bad situation I pick up the pace, ride aggressive, and run through stops/cut through alleys....
Never had any problems...... Knocking on wood....
I ride through some "bad" areas... My safety technique... I ride a bike... generally people will think you are crazy for riding and leave you alone... especially the 8 months of the year that it's crappy here.... that and if I sense a bad situation I pick up the pace, ride aggressive, and run through stops/cut through alleys....
10-18-06 | 05:20 AM
#58
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Joined: Feb 2001
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From: England
Following on from Chipcon's words of wisdom, I wonder if any of you firearm users have actually taken your bike to the range and practiced draw and fire from your bike in usual cycle clothing? Does it work. Do clipless systems slow you down or interfere with good footwork? Do gloves catch on any protrusions?
10-18-06 | 07:56 AM
#59
Conservative Hippie
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,268
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From: Wakulla Co. FL
Originally Posted by chipcom
Having the firearm is one thing, getting it out of its concealed location (or even a holster), remembering to thumb the safety, jacking a round into the chamber, if needed, bringing it to bear on your target and squeezing off your rounds in a controlled, accurate and VERY rapid manner (rather than putting a round into the dirt or into the heavens somewhere in the process) takes practice...repetition to build muscle memory and coordination between mind and body.
Originally Posted by chipcom
'Shoot to kill' for the trained combat shooter means a single shot right between the running lights.
Practice.
Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice. Shoot and Move, Shoot and Move, Shoot and Move. Run Drills........Run Drills, Run Drills, Run Drills, Run Drills, Run Drills. And not just punching paper, but on a practical shooting course with silhouettes.
Last edited by CommuterRun; 10-18-06 at 08:04 AM.
10-18-06 | 08:06 AM
#60
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Originally Posted by CommuterRun
If you're going to carry, always carry in Condition 1.
Double-tap to the chest, then one to the head. For multiple assailants, double-tap all to the the chest first, then follow-up.
Practice.
Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice. Run Drills........Run Drills, Run Drills, Run Drills, Run Drills, Run Drills. And not just punching paper, but on a practical shooting course with silouhettes.
Double-tap to the chest, then one to the head. For multiple assailants, double-tap all to the the chest first, then follow-up.
Practice.
Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice. Run Drills........Run Drills, Run Drills, Run Drills, Run Drills, Run Drills. And not just punching paper, but on a practical shooting course with silouhettes.
Most cops go through their entire careers without ever pulling the trigger. And even untrained folks have successfully used firearms to defend themselves on the rare occasions where it's necessary.
As for me, I've got a lot better things to do with my time than to "practice, practice, practice" killing...like, riding my bike.
10-18-06 | 08:17 AM
#61
Conservative Hippie
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,268
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From: Wakulla Co. FL
Well you don't have to, really. Admittedly, I haven't done any real firearms training since the last CQB package, back before I retired. But, when the chips are down and it's hit the fan, it's the wrong time to be fiddling around with a stove pipe jam or a double-feed.
It's the same reason why so many people take martial arts for the pleasure of doing it, rather than the thought they might have to actually use the training.
Practical firearms training is really just another martial art.
It's the same reason why so many people take martial arts for the pleasure of doing it, rather than the thought they might have to actually use the training.
Practical firearms training is really just another martial art.
10-18-06 | 08:48 AM
#62
Software for Cyclists
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From: Redding, California
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Originally Posted by CommuterRun
Practical firearms training is really just another martial art.
).
10-18-06 | 09:04 AM
#63
CRIKEY!!!!!!!
Joined: May 2005
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From: all the way down under
Bikes: several
Originally Posted by SSP
Agreed...but, taekwondo, karate, etc. will get you into a lot better shape than target shooting (witness all the beer bellies out at the shooting range ).
). ...but I've heard those ninja dudes are real good at quickly stripping down their casettes and flicking the cogs at ya like star knives.
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"Surely one can love his own country without becoming hopelessly lost in an all-consuming flame of narrow-minded nationalism" - Fred Birchmore
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10-18-06 | 09:09 AM
#64
It's true, man.
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From: North Texas
Bikes: Cannondale T1000, Inbred SS 29er, Supercaliber 29er, Crescent Mark XX, Burley Rumba Tandem
Indy commuter gets beaten and robbed of bike:
https://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=2006610170387
https://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=2006610170387
10-18-06 | 09:24 AM
#65
Software for Cyclists
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From: Redding, California
Bikes: Trek 5200, Specialized MTB
Originally Posted by truman
Indy commuter gets beaten and robbed of bike:
https://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=2006610170387
https://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=2006610170387
As for all the "shoot to kill" comments...imagine how this guy's life would have changed if he'd pulled a handgun and killed or maimed a 14-year old kid. He might have avoided an assault and bike theft, but he would be screwed for years to come (lawyer's fees, investigations, court proceedings, civil suits, etc.).
10-18-06 | 09:26 AM
#66
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From: Boston
Bikes: Jamis Coda Sport '06
Originally Posted by SSP
Sounds like he should have been wearing his helmet, and carrying some pepper spray.
As for all the "shoot to kill" comments...imagine how this guy's life would have changed if he'd pulled a handgun and killed or maimed a 14-year old kid. He might have avoided an assault and bike theft, but he would be screwed for years to come (lawyer's fees, investigations, court proceedings, civil suits, etc.).
As for all the "shoot to kill" comments...imagine how this guy's life would have changed if he'd pulled a handgun and killed or maimed a 14-year old kid. He might have avoided an assault and bike theft, but he would be screwed for years to come (lawyer's fees, investigations, court proceedings, civil suits, etc.).
10-18-06 | 09:35 AM
#67
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,020
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From: Raleigh NC
Originally Posted by MichaelW
Following on from Chipcon's words of wisdom, I wonder if any of you firearm users have actually taken your bike to the range and practiced draw and fire from your bike in usual cycle clothing? Does it work. Do clipless systems slow you down or interfere with good footwork? Do gloves catch on any protrusions?
10-18-06 | 10:08 AM
#68
Ex-Lion Tamer
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From: Brooklyn, N.Y.
Bikes: 1982 Lotus Legend (steel-frame touring bike); 1982 Fuji S10S (converted to a singlespeed: 46x16); Specialized Crossroads hybrid (the child taxi).
Yes, it sucks that this guy got hit with a two-by-four. The punks involved will be punished. Nobody's making them into saints.
But if you're not quick enough dodge a wooden plank being swung at your head, then I fail to see how you're going to draw your faithful Smith & Wesson (carried, of course, in Condition 1) and ward off three attackers.
Does it really make you feel safer to know that any garden-variety mugging/altercation/yelling match could quickly escalate into homicide? I've been mugged -- pistol-whipped, in fact. In my experience, you don't see these things coming. Having a gun would have made the situation infinitely worse.
I am not against others owning guns. I'm jealous of all you Upper Peninsula outdoorsmen; I hate how hunting gets folded blindly into anti-gun rhetoric. But sometimes it sounds as if the guys who are packing heat are the least likely to ever find themselves in a situation when they need to be.
But if you're not quick enough dodge a wooden plank being swung at your head, then I fail to see how you're going to draw your faithful Smith & Wesson (carried, of course, in Condition 1) and ward off three attackers.
Does it really make you feel safer to know that any garden-variety mugging/altercation/yelling match could quickly escalate into homicide? I've been mugged -- pistol-whipped, in fact. In my experience, you don't see these things coming. Having a gun would have made the situation infinitely worse.
I am not against others owning guns. I'm jealous of all you Upper Peninsula outdoorsmen; I hate how hunting gets folded blindly into anti-gun rhetoric. But sometimes it sounds as if the guys who are packing heat are the least likely to ever find themselves in a situation when they need to be.
10-18-06 | 10:47 AM
#69
Cycle Dallas
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Land of Gar, TX
Bikes: Dulcinea--2017 Kona Rove & a few others
This would probably keep people from messing with you, (heck, I bet you wouldn't even get honked at anymore)
10-18-06 | 12:39 PM
#70
Senior Member
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From: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: Cannondale Road Warrior
Self Defense...
Originally Posted by rmwun54
I carry a rattan stick on a specialized mini-pump holder; it fits perfectly in place for the size of stick I am using. I only carry it in areas that I have experienced with unruly types.
I study and teach (Certified Bachelor Instructor by GM Ramiro Estalilla, Jr.) FMA (Filipino Martial Arts), specifically, Estalilla Kabaroan Eskrima. Just about all FMA styles start out with simple weaponry typically a single stick. Just about anything can be used as a weapon if properly applied: a rolled up magazine, a pen, a mini-pump, a mini-mag flash light, etc. Just about anything can be used for self defense: a belt (not that anyone rides with one regularly), a handkerchief, etc. I've always thought that FMA styles make for great self defense arts, much like Krav Maga (though I'm still partial to FMA).
FMA can be seen in such movies as the Bourne Identity and the Boure Supremecy (Inosanto blend Kali) and The Hunted (Tommy Lee Jones and Benicio del Toro were given a crash course in Sayoc Kali). While primarily weapons based, FMA translates very easily into empty hand and improvised techniques: the rolled up magazine, the pen.
First things first: be aware of your surroundings.
Second: use only the least amount of force required: words, empty hand, weapon, etc; escalate accordingly, there is no reason to strike the head, if a rap on the wrist or elbow can end a confrontation. Likewise, recognise when you need to escalate.
Use common sense: remember, thieving, mugging low-lifes have more rights than victims. Sad but true.
Most street thugs and street crimes look for opportunity. If you fail to give them the opportunity, they will seek out something else to do or choose not to pursue you. Unfortunately, you can't always help the next guy that comes around. Listen to your common sense, it will help you.
IF you decide to carry a potentially lethal instrument/tool. KNOW how to use it. Don't just buy a knife thinking that brandishing it will automatically cause them to run. Like a gun, don't brandish anything as a threat, you need to be mentally and physically prepared to pursue that course of action. Take a self defense course; learn how to use a pocket stick/palm stick/yawara/kubotan. Remember, this is always the possibility that you will lose what you brandish and it may be used against you. IF you use force, you may also get sued for escalating the use of force beyond what may be considered reasonable (it may not be true but it can happen.) A pen can serve the same function as a kubotan but is legal to carry.
Carry a whistle - noise is your friend.
Property can always be replaced. Credit cards can always be cancelled. ID can always be reissued. Sure its a PITA but your safety is paramount.
Be safe. If you route makes you feel unsecure, change your route, the time you ride (if possible). Unfortunately, these are the times we live in.
Respectfully,
Anthony
Last edited by avmanansala; 10-18-06 at 12:50 PM.
10-18-06 | 01:01 PM
#71
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Originally Posted by avmanansala
FMA, perhaps?
I study and teach (Certified Bachelor Instructor by GM Ramiro Estalilla, Jr.) FMA (Filipino Martial Arts), specifically, Estalilla Kabaroan Eskrima. Just about all FMA styles start out with simple weaponry typically a single stick. Just about anything can be used as a weapon if properly applied: a rolled up magazine, a pen, a mini-pump, a mini-mag flash light, etc. Just about anything can be used for self defense: a belt (not that anyone rides with one regularly), a handkerchief, etc. I've always thought that FMA styles make for great self defense arts, much like Krav Maga (though I'm still partial to FMA).
FMA can be seen in such movies as the Bourne Identity and the Boure Supremecy (Inosanto blend Kali) and The Hunted (Tommy Lee Jones and Benicio del Tory were given a crash course in Sayoc Kali). While primarily weapons based, FMA translates very easily into empty hand and improvised techniques: the rolled up magazine, the pen.
First things first: be aware of your surroundings.
Second: use only the least amount of force required: words, empty hand, weapon, etc; escalate accordingly, there is no reason to strike the head, if a rap on the wrist or elbow can end a confrontation. Likewise, recognise when you need to escalate.
Use common sense: remember, thieving, mugging low-lifes have more rights than victims. Sad but true.
Most street thugs and street crimes look for opportunity. If you fail to give them the opportunity, they will seek out something else to do or choose not to pursue you. Unfortunately, you can't always help the next guy that comes around. Listen to your common sense, it will help you.
IF you decide to carry a potentially lethal instrument/tool. KNOW how to use it. Don't just buy a knife thinking that brandishing it will automatically cause them to run. Like a gun, don't brandish anything as a threat, you need to be mentally and physically prepared to pursue that course of action. Take a self defense course; learn how to use a pocket stick/palm stick/yawara/kubotan. Remember, this is always the possibility that you will lose what you brandish and it may be used against you. IF you use force, you may also get sued for escalating the use of force beyond what may be considered reasonable (it may not be true but it can happen.) A pen can serve the same function as a kubotan but is legal to carry.
Carry a whistle - noise is your friend.
Property can always be replaced. Credit cards can always be cancelled. ID can always be reissued. Sure its a PITA but your safety is paramount.
Be safe. If you route makes you feel unsecure, change your route, the time you ride (if possible). Unfortunately, these are the times we live in.
Respectfully,
Anthony
I study and teach (Certified Bachelor Instructor by GM Ramiro Estalilla, Jr.) FMA (Filipino Martial Arts), specifically, Estalilla Kabaroan Eskrima. Just about all FMA styles start out with simple weaponry typically a single stick. Just about anything can be used as a weapon if properly applied: a rolled up magazine, a pen, a mini-pump, a mini-mag flash light, etc. Just about anything can be used for self defense: a belt (not that anyone rides with one regularly), a handkerchief, etc. I've always thought that FMA styles make for great self defense arts, much like Krav Maga (though I'm still partial to FMA).
FMA can be seen in such movies as the Bourne Identity and the Boure Supremecy (Inosanto blend Kali) and The Hunted (Tommy Lee Jones and Benicio del Tory were given a crash course in Sayoc Kali). While primarily weapons based, FMA translates very easily into empty hand and improvised techniques: the rolled up magazine, the pen.
First things first: be aware of your surroundings.
Second: use only the least amount of force required: words, empty hand, weapon, etc; escalate accordingly, there is no reason to strike the head, if a rap on the wrist or elbow can end a confrontation. Likewise, recognise when you need to escalate.
Use common sense: remember, thieving, mugging low-lifes have more rights than victims. Sad but true.
Most street thugs and street crimes look for opportunity. If you fail to give them the opportunity, they will seek out something else to do or choose not to pursue you. Unfortunately, you can't always help the next guy that comes around. Listen to your common sense, it will help you.
IF you decide to carry a potentially lethal instrument/tool. KNOW how to use it. Don't just buy a knife thinking that brandishing it will automatically cause them to run. Like a gun, don't brandish anything as a threat, you need to be mentally and physically prepared to pursue that course of action. Take a self defense course; learn how to use a pocket stick/palm stick/yawara/kubotan. Remember, this is always the possibility that you will lose what you brandish and it may be used against you. IF you use force, you may also get sued for escalating the use of force beyond what may be considered reasonable (it may not be true but it can happen.) A pen can serve the same function as a kubotan but is legal to carry.
Carry a whistle - noise is your friend.
Property can always be replaced. Credit cards can always be cancelled. ID can always be reissued. Sure its a PITA but your safety is paramount.
Be safe. If you route makes you feel unsecure, change your route, the time you ride (if possible). Unfortunately, these are the times we live in.
Respectfully,
Anthony
I heard once that on the plains of Africa, only about 1 out of every 10 "stalks" by a lion is successful, and I suspect it's about the same ratio for muggers.
I once found myself on a deserted stretch of sidewalk near downtown Chicago at night. Half a block away was the theater district, filled with lights and people. But, as I walked back to my hotel I realized that the block I was in was dark and empty of people. Just then, a really scary large man came out of the shadows to my left...I quickened my pace as he started walking the same direction as I was, and talking crazy sh*t ("I've been to the Cook County Jail...I'm not afraid of anybody...I've got a big knife", etc.). I'm pretty sure he was drunk, or high on something, and was sizing me up from about 15 feet behind me. I reached into my pocket and pulled out my pepper spray and just let it hang at my side as I walked quickly towards the next intersection. There was a couple there who started to get nervous hearing this guy's crazy rant, and we crossed the street together...the crazy guy turned left.
I'm convinced that because I didn't look like an easy mark, and because I "brandished" a weapon, the crazy guy decided that it wouldn't be worth the risk to attack me.
10-18-06 | 02:17 PM
#72
Senior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,890
Likes: 59
From: Fairhaven, Massachusetts
Bikes: Giant easy e, Priority Onyx, Scott Sub 40, Marin Belvedere Commuter
Originally Posted by chipcom
These threads tend to bring out the wannabe rambos who have never seen a shot fired in anger, let alone taken a life. But, on the bright side, these are bike forums, so hopefully nobody takes the 'expert' opinions of weekend paper-punchers too darn serious.
10-18-06 | 02:40 PM
#73
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: Cannondale Road Warrior
Originally Posted by SSP
Great post...
Anthony
10-18-06 | 02:47 PM
#74
It's interesting to read so many others' judgements about others' circumstances. I'll just say this: every situation is it's own different little animal and has a different potential. Street crime is very dynamic, and so should your repertoire to deal with it be as well. Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't.
10-18-06 | 02:49 PM
#75
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,820
Likes: 133
Originally Posted by SSP
Sounds like he should have been wearing his helmet, and carrying some pepper spray.
As for all the "shoot to kill" comments...imagine how this guy's life would have changed if he'd pulled a handgun and killed or maimed a 14-year old kid. He might have avoided an assault and bike theft, but he would be screwed for years to come (lawyer's fees, investigations, court proceedings, civil suits, etc.).
As for all the "shoot to kill" comments...imagine how this guy's life would have changed if he'd pulled a handgun and killed or maimed a 14-year old kid. He might have avoided an assault and bike theft, but he would be screwed for years to come (lawyer's fees, investigations, court proceedings, civil suits, etc.).
In this case, the only thing to really worry about is whether you will be charged criminally for using excessive force in self defense, which according to the facts, would be pretty unlikely. Civil lawsuits against people using self defense are few and far between.
__________________
Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace
1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
1988 Ducati 750 F1
Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace
1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
1988 Ducati 750 F1