In my experience Americans ( and I am painting with a very broad brush here) do not like bicyles in general or at best are ambivalent about them. Judging by the people in my family and that I work with, biking as a form transprotation is seen as a last resort, if at all. I, after biking to work for more than a year, am still ridiculed by co-workers, whenever they get the chance. Now you can spend a good amount of energy trying to figure out why they feel so threatened by it, but I feel on some very basic level it is deemed, as has been desribed to me "uncool", for "geeks" "nerds", you get the point. At its most basic, rejecting an automobile as the only/best option in a culture that is centered around automobiles, puts you outside the herd. When something is different people tend to attack first and ask questions later.

Americans will never give up the automobile by choice (in signifigant numbers). This type of change only happens when circumstances force people to change. Bicycling is percieved as more difficult and less desirable.

Also there is no "envy " involved in riding a utilitarian bike. People routinely brag about thier new cars. It is tough to make someone else feel inadequate/demonstrate your success when you roll up on a used bike vs. arriving in $120k mercedes.

Speaking of the military-industrial complex, I accuse another "-industrial" complex: the beauty one. For men and women. When you bike, you don't arrive at your destination well-coiffed. If there's a locker room, you may be able to groom. But these are rare for social joints like movie theaters and restaurants, and it's still considered uncouth to arrive at a party wheezing and sweating, immediately beeline to the host's shower, and emerge half an hour later in different clothes. Workplaces are better, but there's a strong taboo against being seen disheveled by the people who may give you a raise one day.

Until we change that expectation, we're going to have a hard time convincing folks to ride their bikes non-recreationally. It's a stronger influencer than we'd like to admit.

For better or for worse, cycling will never be the dominant source of transportation in the U.S. Folks are too accustomed to using their cars and it still makes sense to use cars in a number of areas as mentioned before. Making people feel bad about environmental impacts doesn't really help. Showing them how it saves them money does little because once gas prices go back down as they recently have done, they don't feel bad about driving. In my experience, in your face advocacy does nothing more than divide the sides further.

All that being said, I have found an effective method for advocating (softly). People always want to ask 'why' I ride my bike to work. I always tell them that I really only do it 'because it's fun and I like it'. That often starts a conversation about how they have such and such a bike and they want to start riding again, or they thought about riding to work before, but...{insert excuse here} and that gives me a chance to dispell misconceptions and offer advice if warranted. Some people will never be convinced. We don't need to focus energy on those folks. For everyone else, I think the first step is reminding them that it's damn fun to ride a bike.

I just tell people it's fun and I need the exercise. Both are true. The side benefits are saving a few bucks, environmentalism, etc. My decision to commute isn't a political one, it's a personal one.

About the envy thing: I just bought a new bike, and it's a lot more bike than I need. Fancy-schmantz carbon fork and rear, Ultegra derailleurs, blah blah blah. I hope to grow into it, but I'm never going to be a racer where I require that level of components. They're nice to have, and my average speed has gone way up, but I don't NEED them to get around town.

I was feeling a little guilty for spending so much (for me), when I watched a stream of luxury SUVs and sports cars pass me on the way home last night. Vehicles that will never see a dirt road or racetrack. Suddenly I stopped freaking out about my $1400 splurge.

If bicycles become more popular for commuting, I guarantee there will be expensive high-end models for those who want to ride to impress. There already are, for roadies and mountain bikers who know their technical stuff, but I'm talking about commuters with leather appointments, heated seats and grips, integrated GPS and other bling.

While you may not think so your co-workers (and others) are afraid of you and the future you
represent. At a basic gut level these people know the handwritting is on the wall but can't bear
to "see" it yet. You remind them that they,too, will soon be on a bike or using mass transit.

It's no wonder your not to "popular"!!

As much as I like this idea in theory, I despise it in practice. I really don't want to live in a crowded city environment. I just went to look at an apartment in the DC suburbs last night, and realized I wouldn't be happy at all living in a high rise building. What I really want is my own house with backyard and a large basement for nefarious bike-related purposes

There are lots of environments where cars and cycling and walking are ALL efficient forms of transportation, and I have to say those are my favorites. For example, the university towns where I grew up and went to college. In my hometown of East Lansing, MI, I can drive to pretty much any store or friend's house in 10-15 minutes, and there's hardly ever traffic or problems parking. If I want to ride my bike, it's flat and drivers are generally polite to me. Every time I go home I am amazed to rediscover what a pleasant place it is to get around... REGARDLESS of the particular means of transportation.

So, I guess what I want is to live in a pleasant, walkable environment that's not overcrowded... which means that it has to be in the midwest somewhere, because if it's on the coasts it will instantly get overrun and turned into a crowded city

This is why we need more Project One bikes being used for commuting.

Bob: Hey Jim, what's that you just rode up to work on?
Jim: 14 lbs of custom painted carbon fiber
Bob: you must be tired, all that sweat!
Jim: maybe, but I rode something that cost more than your Kia!
Bob:

I am trying to increase my social standing by creating a new commuter for myself.

Check out the thread below.
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/237685-vintage-schwinn-conversion-nexus-8-pics.html

I think you've made an excellent point: here in Texas, the damn subdivisions are so spread out and the single-use zoning makes provision of the simplest services always put to the edge of the housing zones. And don't even think about employment centers actually located near where people live and recreate.

Our cities are simply too spread out to make cycling much of an option except riding to the 'park 'n ride' and taking a train into the city. That would mean we'd have to have trains in Texas cities and that's an idea just now taking hold.

Sometimes I think about the square miles of abandoned suburban homes that may be left when inhabitants can no longer access any services and the price of fuel means no trucks make it that far out and commuting by car is way too expensive. Only thing to do then is to move closer in and use bikes to get around. In San Antonio, Austin, Dallas and even Houston, folks are starting to do that - 'inside the loop' land and dwelling prices are much higher. Isn't there some kind of tongue-in-cheek estimation that in California, every freeway intersection another mile OUT of the cities means a $ 10,000 drop in house prices?

My personal solution has been to go "car-lite" as some might say. The last 2 years I've lived a 65 mile each way commute from work, that would take from 1-4 hours each way, depending on traffic. On top of that, I was filling up with gas 3 times a week, at as much as $55 per tank, all this assuming only local weekend driving. My fuel budget was $750/mo. Combine that with insurance ($160/mo at the time... before I got married) and a $500/mo car payment ($380 min., but better to beat interest), I was spending over $1400 to drive my car each month. Now, I pay all of my bills on $1400/mo, including insuring an additional vehicle, and paying rent (I got stationed near home, so I've been living rent-free with my parents ).

Getting married co-incided with my ship changing location for a while, so I moved to where the ship is, but far enough away to leave work at work. My 7 mile commute is about perfect, taking about 1 hour round trip including traffic variables. To drive to work, park in the garage, and walk from the garage takes over an hour, plus I have to be at work an extra hour early just to find a parking spot. So, in all relevance, driving my 7 mile commute is a 2 hour process. I'd much rather bike any day of the week. Besides the benefits in time, both of our vehicles are on the same tank of gas that we put in over 3 weeks ago, so our transportation budget is down to $150/mo (figuring mileage of my wife driving me to & from work 1 day/week because of excessive baggage, and a trip to our home town once per month). Anyway, I've put less miles on my car in the last month than I would in a normal day previously.

Sorry for the novel!

No they won't. They'll just keep paying whatever it costs to drive, and make whatever sacrifices they deem necessary to make sure they can keep putting fuel (be it oil, ethanol or whatever else) in their cars. The only thing that will change is the amount of money they have to fork out to do it.

Some years ago my mother was working in a supermarket. She told me about how people in harsh economic circumstances were forced to make a choice between buying food for their children or cigarettes for themselves. More often than not, the cigarettes won out. The same thing happens with fuel. As I've said before, the motor car won't disappear, it will just get more expensive.

Regarding the conception of FACING FUTURE, I was hoping that this thread might bring out the optimists in some of us, and mull over ideas of how we can work together sychronistically, rather than offer fatalistic complaints about how stuck we are in the present.

Yeah, if we each just bike commute to our separate jobs, in the sphere of our small lives, not much will change. Maybe we're just fighting the forces of Darwinian Nature and we can't escape extinction, so why not party on? Maybe not, then what?

I think the moral thread in each of us pushes us beyond merely owning the glory of bike commuting for *just* the self gratification, eh?

I don't agree with this. Cars may be an addiction, but its social pressure that feeds the addiction. I think a good survey would show most people don't even like dealing with the things as much as they're forced to. To solve the problem we have to change the social pressures, which basically means pro-bike anti-car propaganda. We need less movies like 40-year-old-virgin where practical cycling is made fun of, and more movies where the daily-grind of driving a car is upstaged by a bicycle driving hero/heroine. But more importantly, we need to show that you can circumvent car dependence in cities that were even built around cars.

Everybody looks at bikes/mass transit/etc as something that only works in new york or chicago or portland. Somebody needs to show that people in towns like mine, where public transit is a joke and a city of 300,000 has 10 bike lanes, can still get around without driving.

Don't show the Californians or the New Yorkers that they can do it, show the midwesterners that they can do it.

I really think the forces of Media are the strongest.

Proactive Idea # 1 : Lets all donate a dollar, and soon we'll have enough money to hire the SuperDuperModels to ride bikes for a photo shoot.... and then we might begin to touch the 'cool' factor.

Proactive idea #2 : Get Hip actors on film... preferably a documentary on bicycle commuting vs car commuting, perhaps directed by Michael Moore, or some such revolutionary type.

GOOGLE "waverly west winnipeg" This is a new subdivision for a city that has grown about 1% in the last 5 years. This development will house approx. 40,000 people. The wildlife and farm life in this area are now being destroyed. I ride past this area every day, twice a day on my commute. Work started about
3months ago. I have told everyone that I have had more close calls in 3 months than I have had in 10 years of riding to work.
When I called my councellor (Sen. Gov.), about bike lanes or paths, his answer was simple.
"Waverly west will have extensive bike paths". I told him I dont live in Waverly West. His answer was
"Waverly west will have extensive bike paths". I told him I don't live in Waverly West. His answer was
"Waverly west will have extensive bike paths". You get the idea.
We are living in a consumer's world and I don't think that will change in my lifetime.

How do we make people realize that TV and marketing are taking the importace out of family and conservation.
Don't want to be a killjoy or anything.
Just not happy with the way things are going in my backyard


Winnipeg Canada

You have every reason to be a 'killjoy', as we all do, so we rant. Ranting has it's place, but so does *then* following thru to being proactive.

I happen to have a severe disdain for media, and anything which puts importance on "image", (but which is otherwise rather hollow) and have avoided watching tv since about '83, and also avoid buying into any of the fashion industry... period. I avoid magazines, news, all kinds of media. So, why would somebody like me suggest using media as a billboard of sorts -- super-imposing pop trends/models with bicycles --- to impress upon the youth in America?

Because I respect that it *is* the most powerful way to wrestle --- plain and simple, it's all about "images".

No way... the mass public does not believe, at any level, that they will have to stop driving. Most are convinced that there is plenty of oil, and the rest are sure that hydrogen, or some other tech will be there when the time comes.

On the hydrogen energy scam being pushed by the Repubs:

https://www.headheritage.co.uk/uknow/...ndex.php?id=39

But what can we do? How can any/each/all of us be proactive beyond riding ourselves along on our merry way?

There is a Zen koan which fits my rant : "what is the sound of one hand clapping".

no sound. See?